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@canefan said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
@Frank said in US Politics:
Americans have a much higher percentage of their retirement savings in the stockmarket than Kiwis.
In terms of superannuation what is the deal in NZ for selecting how your fund operates? Some of that is going to be shares?
Kiwisaver has lots of options depending on your risk profile
Cane is correct. For example my Kiwisaver account is as risky as shit... because I dont care to much about it, it is not my retirement plan. I go through Craigs Investments and basically it is all shares, and I choose the shares, I can buy and sell as I want. It is basically a personal share portfolio. I love it. I get to dabble in the stockmarket more.
I sold Apple shares a coupe of months back as I knew they were going to go down.They didnt.. they went up.. alot.
Luckily my other shares in the portfolio have done significantly better...
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback exactly baron - take people from one environment, put them in another and they adapt. that guy would be as much a foreigner in eritrea as i would now.
my point is that it there are not inherent traits of ethnicity or religious background that make integration impossible - more different = more time, that's all. it's just common sense - don't stick them all in one place together if you want them to integrate quickly, especially if they have factors like language making it easier for them to stick together.
immigrants from another culture/language are disadvantaged in employment terms. put big groups of disadvantaged together, and you have slums. develop slums composed of one ethnic group, and you create racism.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
so to paraphrase, your answer is 'time'?
If that's what you took from my post, then I haven't written it very well.
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@reprobate
I agree with a slowly, slowly piece by piece approach and being highly selective of whom to let in. It depends on the threshold. What Sweden has done is well-meaning but waaaaay too idealistic. I also suspect more than a bit of 'we lead the world in humanitarianism' hubris on their part.I knew a guy over here here in Taiwan who was orthodox Muslim (a Nigerian who was Canadian by birth who used to be Christian and switched to Islam.) We were friends. This was back in 2005 before all this shit really kicked off. I was really interested in his thinking because he was so devout. In particular, I was interested in how far he would take his beliefs. Of course, he would never use violence and generally he hoped to convert people by being an 'example'. Fair enough.
But he said something else. He said the goal of his faith is to spread and ultimately 'defeat' Western liberalism. Okay. How to do this. He told me by settling in Western countries, having kids to increase the Muslim population, and infiltrate the political systems via think tanks, foundations, membership of political parties to change the agenda and gradually change Western society. To push for the right to an Islamic education in Western society for his children. There was NO interest in adjusting himself to Western society, and even more worrying an active desire to change Western society to his beliefs. Obviously this group, will target more moderate Muslims to be part of their campaign. And obviously there is no way in hell they will be broadcasting this intention to all and sundry. He felt it okay because we were in Taiwan discussing this and I was also a critic of some aspects of Western society.
In fact they will work under the banner of 'tolerance'. Hard-left or indifferent Westerners are very useful for them to achieve this purpose.
Obviously the jihadists a real danger to Western society, but they are so few in number. It is the %age that want to actively change Western society to a more Western oriented view that I think should not be allowed in.
Sam Harris has done some good research on the percentage of Muslims believing in Sharia Law. He analyzed the %age of people voting for the Muslim Brotherhood in elections across the Middle East over a period of 20 years or so. He estimates 20% or so.
In his own clumsy mass-market way, Trump has drawn attention to this across the world. The spotlight should not be on him, but rather than on a rapidly growing faith where a huge number of its adherents wish to spread it actively defeat what our culture stands for. The ideology of conservative Islamism needs to be strongly challenged and reformed because in many ways it is a political ideology.
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@antipodean well i ignored the bit where you implied that muslim immigrants run around wanting people's heads cut off.
the bit where you mention genital mutilation, which is practiced by all religions in certain countries in africa too.
the bit where you mention child marriages, most of which occur in india.
the bit where you said all muslim men are fluffybunnies, but the women are sweet as, they just need your protection.apologies.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
@antipodean well i ignored the bit where you implied that muslim immigrants run around wanting people's heads cut off.
the bit where you mention genital mutilation, which is practiced by all religions in certain countries in africa too.
the bit where you mention child marriages, most of which occur in india.
the bit where you said all muslim men are fluffybunnies, but the women are sweet as, they just need your protection.apologies.
You're apologising for using @gollum 's trick of misrepresentation?
The countries with the worst rates just happen to be majority Muslim countries. Hell of a correlation.
Not from Australian Indians they aren't. the AG and AFP are predominately targeting Arabs and Somalis.
The context isn't all. I've made that perfectly clear.
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@canefan said in US Politics:
I don't think that guy will meet immigration criteria
That's from a protest in Sydney - so he's already here.
The question, like those who identify as Muslim in jail: did he come here as a Muslim? Or did he become a Muslim while here? Might have been born here.
No amount of immigration vetting is going to fix the 2nd-gen who radicalise. That is a different kettle of fish.
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@Frank do you think that is realistic though frank? i mean with a relatively careful approach you wouldn't have the numbers needed to change the way a society functions? -and in a generation when that guys kids have grown up in the west, with (despite any parents' best efforts) pretty much full immersion: western friends, ideals etc - odds on they see their old man as a dinosaur, and are integrated themselves.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
odds on they see their old man as a dinosaur, and are integrated themselves.
Or, as with some of the Lebanese youth here, see their old man as a useless dinosaur who should be fighting for Lebanon's rights.
Not understanding the old man said "Fuck this shit, I'm going somewhere I can die of old age!" in the first place.
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@antipodean well i ignored the bit where you implied that muslim immigrants run around wanting people's heads cut off.
the bit where you mention genital mutilation, which is practiced by all religions in certain countries in africa too.
the bit where you mention child marriages, most of which occur in india.
the bit where you said all muslim men are fluffybunnies, but the women are sweet as, they just need your protection.apologies.
You're apologising for using @gollum 's trick of misrepresentation?
you're misrepresenting yourself mate. you started out with look different, different language, different religion etc. means go somewhere else - those were the reasons you gave. then in response to 'what about asians, who fulfil all your criteria?' you basically responded with 'but asians work hard whereas muslims are violent and lazy criminals who don't care about education and practice genital mutilation'.
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@NTA yep, but if migration is managed well, vetted and spread out and supported, i would think that number would be very small in comparison to those who just become normal members of society - there are some nutters in every population unfortunately.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
@antipodean said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@antipodean well i ignored the bit where you implied that muslim immigrants run around wanting people's heads cut off.
the bit where you mention genital mutilation, which is practiced by all religions in certain countries in africa too.
the bit where you mention child marriages, most of which occur in india.
the bit where you said all muslim men are fluffybunnies, but the women are sweet as, they just need your protection.apologies.
You're apologising for using @gollum 's trick of misrepresentation?
you're misrepresenting yourself mate.
No, I'm genuinely not. I explained why all the reasons didn't apply to Asians, hence tying it back to the statement 'It's much harder to assimilate when you increasingly have less in common'.
I was polite about your misrepresentation, going to the point of even suggesting your comprehension skills were my fault, but I've had enough of your spin so I'll ignore you forthwith.
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
I don't think that guy will meet immigration criteria
That's from a protest in Sydney - so he's already here.
The question, like those who identify as Muslim in jail: did he come here as a Muslim? Or did he become a Muslim while here? Might have been born here.
No amount of immigration vetting is going to fix the 2nd-gen who radicalise. That is a different kettle of fish.
Indeed. The 2nd gen who radicalise has been a huge problem among all immigrant groups and religions. Have to keep an extra special eye on the Presbyterians.
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Already posted in 'Awesome stuff on internet ', but the mindset behind this is amazing.
Love it. -
@Frank said in US Politics:
The ideology of conservative Islamism needs to be strongly challenged and reformed.
How?
Trump is not advocating that. He's advocating banning Muslim immigration. He's fully supportive of the core areas of Islamic extremism - Qutar, Bahrain, Saudi. He's on board with Russia who have a fully functional Sharia state inside their borders fully supported by Putin.
So he's probably not the solution. He's sure as fuck not "challenging" it given his support for the Sunni core states. Nor is Putin.
So what is your route plan? How would you do what you think needs doing?
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@reprobate
Yes. I might agree with you here. But letting in them in very small numbers in a very slow manner with very strong vetting with the situation being monitored that assimilation actually does start to take place after a certain time. Plus reserving the right to stop it if it is not occurring. No possibility of Islamic schools being established - ever. Then yes, miracle of miracles - we might be in agreement. -
@Frank said in US Politics:
The president has laid out a plan to make communities safer
I love the bit where he says "border wall!" then without any irony talks about the time he saw a drug tunnel & time spent on boats.
Maybe some gun laws would help -
A hunting guide and his client accidentally shot each other and then blamed it on undocumented migrants, police in the US have said.
Officers attended the scene at a remote south Texas ranch, near to the Mexico border, in early January, finding the two men bleeding from gunshot wounds. A second guide was involved in the incident, but escaped without injury.The casualties, guide Walker Daughtery, 26, and client Edwin Roberts, 59, and the other guide, Michael Bryant, told police they suspected the shooters were undocumented immigrants they had seen on the ranch earlier in their trip.
Their story was shared thousands of times online after Texas Commissioner of Agriculture and Donald Trump ally Sid Miller wrote about it on Facebook. But police and a grand jury have now concluded the men were lying about the incident, and actually shot each other.
Investigators believe that Mr Daughtery became paranoid that illegal immigrants were inside a vehicle with Mr Roberts and his wife and attempted to get inside without saying anything, prompting Mr Roberts to shoot at the door.Mr Daughtery then ran back to his cabin to grab his gun and to get backup from Mr Bryant, and together they opened fire on the truck. Mr Daughtery and Mr Roberts were both struck by bullets, to the chest and to the arm respectively. It is believed that Mr Daughtery shot Mr Roberts, his client, and Mr Bryant shot Mr Daughtery, his colleague.
Police told news channel CBS 7 they are conducting ballistic testing to determine which guns fired which bullets, but they cannot test the bullet that struck Mr Daughtery as it is too close to his heart to be safely removed. Mr Daughtery and Mr Bryant have both been indicted on third-degree felony charges, punishable by up to five years in prison.
US Politics