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@no-quarter Yeah. Even though Shaw seems to want to bury the fact, his party lost a huge chunk of support in the party vote this election. The mandate for change is not his massively left leaning way. If National or Labour made a concerted effort to improve their environmental policies and penalties, clean up the parks, the beaches and waterways etc, the Greens would probably be relegated to less than 5% and become just another nutcase fringe party.
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I can't remember if it was this thread we were discussing water quality in NZ. I mentioned the efforts in Taranaki which hadn't been recognised, looks like they are getting the results now and some recognition on NZ TV.
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@rembrandt said in NZ Politics:
I can't remember if it was this thread we were discussing water quality in NZ. I mentioned the efforts in Taranaki which hadn't been recognised, looks like they are getting the results now and some recognition on NZ TV.
Recognized after the election....
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https://stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/98011920/is-winston-peters-doing-mmp-all-wrong
I agree with this piece that these dual negotiations smack of Peters running a Dutch auction. If it all turns to shit I hope this will be the nail in the coffin for NZF
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so good ol' Winny will let us know this afternoon, unless he decides he is just telling us he hasn't decided yet...only a week after the original date he said it would happen.
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
so good ol' Winny will let us know this afternoon, unless he decides he is just telling us he hasn't decided yet...only a week after the original date he said it would happen.
Why so anxious? The country is still standing. Calling for decisions only makes them feel more important than they should.
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@crucial because I am tired of the media interviewing and supplying soundbites of English and Ardern saying the same thing and Winny walking about with that grin as he is the cat that got the cream...it is (unsurprisingly) dominating our media and is a bit boring.
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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
https://stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/98011920/is-winston-peters-doing-mmp-all-wrong
I agree with this piece that these dual negotiations smack of Peters running a Dutch auction. If it all turns to shit I hope this will be the nail in the coffin for NZF
I agree with aspects of it but not the one that he is obliged to negotiate with National first.
Ideally (and I have no idea how negotiations have been done) he would go to both parties looking to form a govt and provide a list of his policies for consideration. They come back with them marked as probable, possible, or no fucking way under the sun.
He gets to assess that then go back with counter offers before making a decision.
After all this is about fitting the voters that wanted his policies into a representatative govt -
@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@crucial because I am tired of the media interviewing and supplying soundbites of English and Ardern saying the same thing and Winny walking about with that grin as he is the cat that got the cream...it is (unsurprisingly) dominating our media and is a bit boring.
I guess I'm lucky that I can ignore that a bit easier from the other side of the globe.
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Winston Peters decides: National, Labour may learn fate at same time as the public
This is f****d up.
Winston is the junior partner by far in whichever coalition partner he ends up with, and yet he is the one with his name in lights letting us all know what the end result is?
Surely it should be Bill or Jacinda saying we have formed a government with NZ First or the Greens or whatever the arrangement is.
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@infidel i keep banging on about this, but it is national and labour who put winston in that position because they choose to see working together as impossible - this is their choice.
they must love all this 'holding the country to ransom' shit directed at winston - when the reality is that they are putting their pigheaded ideologies ahead of the option of working for the good of the country - and thereby giving winston the kingmaker role.
i mean seriously, we have articles in the media about why not the far left greens working with national... um, well fucking what about the other centre party? then the government would actually represent a majority of the country, rather than either 'side' scraping over 50% (of voters, not the population) by buying winston's 7%.
blah blah broken record.
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The greatest thing ever would be English and Ardern doing a joint press conference and saying we've decided to form a government together, Bill PM, Jacinda Deputy PM, and Winny and Shaw can go fuck themselves with a cactus.
Putting all bullshit aside, they probably meet in more places than they don't. Then they compromise and negotiate for the good of the country.
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@mokey getting agreement from the extremes of their caucus would be the issue there I expect...but agree, there is such a fine line between the 2 now (much less than NZF & Greens I expect) if they could see past their own arrogance, working together would be by far the best option!
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@taniwharugby said in NZ Politics:
@mokey getting agreement from the extremes of their caucus would be the issue there I expect...but agree, there is such a fine line between the 2 now (much less than NZF & Greens I expect) if they could see past their own arrogance, working together would be by far the best option!
Arrogance or the weight of their FPP history. The biggest sticking point is Labour's unionised base is the philosophical opposite to National's market philosophy. But unions are so 19th and 20th century, the Nats have a current leader very concerned about social issues, they are a logical match
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The fact that there is no consideration given to a grand coalition alongside the Greens inability to countenance supping with the Devil illustrates that the issue in forming a government isn't MMP, it is the political parties ongoing inability to realise the realities of a MMP environment.
Despite what (retard) Hosking thinks.
In fact his denouncement of MMP is a prime factor in influencing my belief that its a good system
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@infidel said in NZ Politics:
This is f****d up.
Winston is the junior partner by far in whichever coalition partner he ends up with, and yet he is the one with his name in lights letting us all know what the end result is?
Surely it should be Bill or Jacinda saying we have formed a government with NZ First or the Greens or whatever the arrangement is.
If Peters is simply announcing confidence/supply then he is under no obligation to announce anything prior to parliament sitting IMO - he certainly doesn't owe either of the leaders a thumbs up or down.
If it's a coalition agreement - which I simply can't imagine Peters being dumb enough to try again - then it seems pretty strange to consamate that any other way than with a handshake.
NZ Politics