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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12136103
All this blue sky talk, road shows and consultants. Just an excuse to not talk about metrics, and actually doing anything of substance
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@mokey said in NZ Politics:
kids who scaled the fence, broke into my bathroom and stole my entire make up bag, took it home and buried the contents throughout their vegetable garden...I just can't get my head around this. Any idea of the logic?
Why steal makeup rather than valuables? Unless they were girls who knew the value of makeup..but then why plant it in the vegetable garden? Were they hoping to grow more makeup? How did you find out it was them and that it was now in the vege patch?
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@mokey said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby The house next door is managed by an agency, and they have put in a procession of the worst fucking dregs you can imagine over the years. I'm talking loud parties, feral dogs, smashing bottles and screaming fights, kids who scaled the fence, broke into my bathroom and stole my entire make up bag, took it home and buried the contents throughout their vegetable garden...
Fuck me days.
Lucky for them they didn't spell your name wrong
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First the nurses, now the teachers. It's early days before the next election but I hope these two hotbeds of labour support respond in kind and fuck them up at the polls next time around.
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@rembrandt They were primary-school aged kids, so I think they just grabbed what they could reach. The vege garden was a hiding place. I managed to get after them reasonably quickly, because I heard the crash of the bathroom window level against the sill, and the sound of running feet. So I knew more than one, and probably not adults. On a hunch I went next door and found the father in the driveway. I asked if kids had just come running past. He said yes. I explained what had happened, and he called them over. They lied for quite a while, and then my ex-teacher's voice broke out, and their memory improved. The little boy brought my make up bag back, which was half empty. I asked where the rest was. They lied again and said that was it. So teacher's voice turned grumpy teacher's voice and memory improved again. They went and found a few of the items. Again lied and said that was all. I was getting seriously shitty at that stage. The dad told me to calm down, but the mother and grandmother started digging in the vege patch and found all the remaining items. I felt sorry for the grandmother, because she was just visiting, and it was obvious she was absolutely mortified by what the kids had done, and kept apologising. The parents didn't say a thing.
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Hahahaha, this is for real .
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@jegga said in NZ Politics:
Hahahaha, this is for real .
Yeah, I’m a member.
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Hahahahaha, just kidding. Morons -
@jc said in NZ Politics:
@jegga said in NZ Politics:
Hahahaha, this is for real .
Yeah, I’m a member.
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Hahahahaha, just kidding. MoronsHey man , prisons don’t reduce crime . It says so on the first page on their website so it must be true.
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@jegga said in NZ Politics:
Hey man , prisons don’t reduce crime . It says so on the first page on their website so it must be true.
They're not far off with that statement. I wouldn't remove prisons, but having some good mates involved in the process, I'm with Bill English having prisons as a 'fiscal and moral failure'.
I wouldn't shut them down. But people who go to prison don't have good outcomes. And, arguably, it results in more crime when they come out.
Some bastards need to be kept away from society.
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@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
@jegga said in NZ Politics:
Hey man , prisons don’t reduce crime . It says so on the first page on their website so it must be true.
They're not far off with that statement. I wouldn't remove prisons, but having some good mates involved in the process, I'm with Bill English having prisons as a 'fiscal and moral failure'.
I wouldn't shut them down. But people who go to prison don't have good outcomes. And, arguably, it results in more crime when they come out.
Some bastards need to be kept away from society.
If they had of said they were behind literacy programs and job training and reducing recidivism etc etc and stopped right there rather than talking about shutting down prisons I wouldn’t be mocking them. But they are a bunch of muddle headed far left loons .
Slightly off tangent what do others think of private prisons ?
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@nzzp problem is, some of them are simply bad eggs, whether they are petty thugs or just break ins, shoplifting etc, there is no helping some of them, but you cant keep these ones locked away for ever, whereas murderers, rapists, kiddie fiddlers, should be locked away, whereas some arent.
TBH I am not sure there is a perfect system?
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@jegga said in NZ Politics:
@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
@jegga said in NZ Politics:
Hey man , prisons don’t reduce crime . It says so on the first page on their website so it must be true.
They're not far off with that statement. I wouldn't remove prisons, but having some good mates involved in the process, I'm with Bill English having prisons as a 'fiscal and moral failure'.
I wouldn't shut them down. But people who go to prison don't have good outcomes. And, arguably, it results in more crime when they come out.
Some bastards need to be kept away from society.
If they had of said they were behind literacy programs and job training and reducing recidivism etc etc and stopped right there rather than talking about shutting down prisons I wouldn’t be mocking them. But they are a bunch of muddle headed far left loons .
Slightly off tangent what do others think of private prisons ?
Not a good idea IMO. You don't want a business that needs people to be in prison to survive, opens up a path for corruption with Judges being paid to send people away (as has happened in the US).
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@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
Not a good idea IMO. You don't want a business that needs people to be in prison to survive, opens up a path for corruption with Judges being paid to send people away (as has happened in the US).
It's about getting the incentives correct.
If a prison was contracted to have x prisoners over a set period of time, the drive for more profit via more prisoners only comes up at renegotiation time. The problem with the US system is that pressure is continual.
Continuing with the incentives. Having fines for mistreatment of prisoners is a no brainer to maintain standards.
An obvious positive incentive would be the company getting bonuses based on lowering, and then keeping a low, recidivism rate.
Thats what the society wants isn't it?With that bonus system every employee will be getting judged on how well they are helping the company reach that goal of low recidivism. That links the workers daily efforts with the outcome that we all want.
The monolithic public system doesn't judge workers in that way.. there is no incentive toA system like that would allow trials of different methods of lowering recidivism. Some will succeed, some will fail. The successful ones will spread. Under a monolithic system a poor system can be imposed everywhere and correcting any mistakes is a slow process.
tldr - US private prisons are shitty but that does not mean all private prisons would be shitty.
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@duluth said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
Not a good idea IMO. You don't want a business that needs people to be in prison to survive, opens up a path for corruption with Judges being paid to send people away (as has happened in the US).
It's about getting the incentives correct.
If a prison was contracted to have x prisoners over a set period of time, the drive for more profit via more prisoners only comes up at renegotiation time. The problem with the US system is that pressure is continual.
Continuing with the incentives. Having fines for mistreatment of prisoners is a no brainer to maintain standards.
An obvious positive incentive would be the company getting bonuses based on lowering, and then keeping a low, recidivism rate.
Thats what the society wants isn't it?With that bonus system every employee will be getting judged on how well they are helping the company reach that goal of low recidivism. That links the workers daily efforts with the outcome that we all want.
The monolithic public system doesn't judge workers in that way.. there is no incentive toA system like that would allow trials of different methods of lowering recidivism. Some will succeed, some will fail. The successful ones will spread. Under a monolithic system a poor system can be imposed everywhere and correcting any mistakes is a slow process.
tldr - US private prisons are shitty but does not mean all private prisons would be shitty.
US private prisons are shitty for sure , also prison guard unions lobbying to keep dope illegal is dodgy too.
I like the ideas about trials to reduce recidivism, I’ve got a mate who employs a few ex cons . The trouble is not with the work ethic but keeping them from hanging out with their idiot mates and slipping into old habits.
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@duluth said in NZ Politics:
@kirwan said in NZ Politics:
Not a good idea IMO. You don't want a business that needs people to be in prison to survive, opens up a path for corruption with Judges being paid to send people away (as has happened in the US).
It's about getting the incentives correct.
If a prison was contracted to have x prisoners over a set period of time, the drive for more profit via more prisoners only comes up at renegotiation time. The problem with the US system is that pressure is continual.
Continuing with the incentives. Having fines for mistreatment of prisoners is a no brainer to maintain standards.
An obvious positive incentive would be the company getting bonuses based on lowering, and then keeping a low, recidivism rate.
Thats what the society wants isn't it?With that bonus system every employee will be getting judged on how well they are helping the company reach that goal of low recidivism. That links the workers daily efforts with the outcome that we all want.
The monolithic public system doesn't judge workers in that way.. there is no incentive toA system like that would allow trials of different methods of lowering recidivism. Some will succeed, some will fail. The successful ones will spread. Under a monolithic system a poor system can be imposed everywhere and correcting any mistakes is a slow process.
tldr - US private prisons are shitty but that does not mean all private prisons would be shitty.
I agree, but would still be concerened about unintended consequences. It would be pretty tough to get the incentives right because it's essentially like starting a hotel where the goal is to have as few guests as possible.
It naturally leans the other way.
It's fair to say what we are doing now doesn't work, so we probably should try something new. Maybe start with lower security, shorter term prisoners so any mistakes are less serious.
NZ Politics