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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
I think you are looking at two issues. Firstly Folau’s tweeted beliefs. They’re antediluvian but A) does it really matter if you don’t believe in his sky fairy and free speech and all that. Secondly, consequences of above ie does he deserve getting the elbow? I think he’s a dick on two counts, his views and his kicking Aussie Rugby in the balls but to me he can get sacked for the second but not the first. Lawes’ Tweeted defence of Vunipola echoes my views on this.
Fuck. Those two s were meant to be B in brackets.
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@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
antediluvian
well, I just learned the proper definition of a new word:
antediluvian
/ˌantɪdɪˈluːvɪən/
adjective
of or belonging to the time before the biblical Flood.
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
synonyms: before the flood, prehistoric, primeval, primordial, primal, earliest, ancient, early; rareprimigenial
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
HUMOROUS
ridiculously old-fashioned.
"they maintain antediluvian sex-role stereotypes"
synonyms: out of date, outdated, outmoded, old-fashioned, ancient, antiquated, archaic, antique, superannuated, anachronistic, outworn, behind the times, primitive, medieval, quaint, old-fangled, obsolescent, obsolete, prehistoric; More -
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
antediluvian
well, I just learned the proper definition of a new word:
antediluvian
/ˌantɪdɪˈluːvɪən/
adjective
of or belonging to the time before the biblical Flood.
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
synonyms: before the flood, prehistoric, primeval, primordial, primal, earliest, ancient, early; rareprimigenial
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
HUMOROUS
ridiculously old-fashioned.
"they maintain antediluvian sex-role stereotypes"
synonyms: out of date, outdated, outmoded, old-fashioned, ancient, antiquated, archaic, antique, superannuated, anachronistic, outworn, behind the times, primitive, medieval, quaint, old-fangled, obsolescent, obsolete, prehistoric; MoreEvery day’s a school day 😁
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
antediluvian
well, I just learned the proper definition of a new word:
antediluvian
/ˌantɪdɪˈluːvɪən/
adjective
of or belonging to the time before the biblical Flood.
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
synonyms: before the flood, prehistoric, primeval, primordial, primal, earliest, ancient, early; rareprimigenial
"gigantic bones of antediluvian animals"
HUMOROUS
ridiculously old-fashioned.
"they maintain antediluvian sex-role stereotypes"
synonyms: out of date, outdated, outmoded, old-fashioned, ancient, antiquated, archaic, antique, superannuated, anachronistic, outworn, behind the times, primitive, medieval, quaint, old-fangled, obsolescent, obsolete, prehistoric; More -
What are the chances Nike pays him a couple million a year?
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So - are you ok with people holding that view, but not expressing it publicly?
He has every right to hold whatever view he wants.
Edit: because if you are, you're basically saying that athiests will be the first choice for rugby teams
Yeah, nah. That’s not even logical
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So - are you ok with people holding that view, but not expressing it publicly?
Edit: because if you are, you're basically saying that athiests will be the first choice for rugby teams
If they don't express a view, then how do you know they hold it?
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@taniwharugby said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So - are you ok with people holding that view, but not expressing it publicly?
Edit: because if you are, you're basically saying that athiests will be the first choice for rugby teams
If they don't express a view, then how do you know they hold it?
Schrodinger's viewpoint.
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So you don’t believe in religious freedom?
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@JC said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So you don’t believe in religious freedom?
I agree with Fitzimmons, it isn't about religious freedom unless the government plans on throwing him in jail. It is an employment matter
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@JC said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So you don’t believe in religious freedom?
I read it as less about religious freedom or freedom of speech and more about consequences.
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@JC said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
Courtney lawes has now come to the defence of Billy Vunipola and to my mind makes the most sense of any of the shitlebrity tweets etc.
"I don’t have a faith like yourself my brother so I don’t share the same views in this matter but I do believe you should be able to voice your own opinions and beliefs as you see fit. To everyone getting worked up about these post I ask you if you don’t believe in the same things as them then what do these statements matter to you? Can we not disagree with someone without calling them a bigot or a homophobe or every other name under the sun?"
“And by the way If you’re going to say you’re accepting of everyone then be accepting of everyone, not just the people you agree with.”
Disagree 100%.
Foley is staying thst in his view, they are going to suffer in eternity. His view. He believes he’s going to paradise and non believers, who
Follow their own true feelings, will suffer eternally.A sporting organization selling a product cannot carry this. Right to be sacked,
So you don’t believe in religious freedom?
Why wouldn’t I?
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I guess the situation really is that the ARU don't believe in freedom of religion, and that is the consequence of sponsors who also don't..and that is at least in part due to extremist protesters & the twitterati that don't and aren't shy about saying it
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
I guess the situation really is that the ARU don't believe in freedom of religion, and that is the consequence of sponsors who also don't..and that is at least in part due to extremist protesters & the twitterati that don't and aren't shy about saying it
I think it’s just more about acceptance of the LGBT community. They feel Folaus post is against that principle.
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@MajorRage If I try and turn it on its head. Folau isn't standing against freedom of sexuality. He is just giving a warning about what he believes will happen to them when they die (assuming literal hell rather than metaphorical), there is no force involved. . Extremist protesters, sponsors and ARU are however attempting to use force (as in removal of income) to stop Folau from speaking his beliefs.
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@Kirwan said in The Folau Factor:
@Machpants said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel yeah but our only Muslim rugby player is coming out and saying 'as long as your good to others, I like you' not 'burn in hell faggot' So bringing up other religions and anti Christian stuff not entirely relevant. If SBW posts about the "Qur’an (4:16) demands unspecified punishment for men guilty of lewdness together unless they repent", then he'd lose his job too. Btw that's the only mention of homosexually being forbidden in the Qur'an, all the fundamentalist stuff from the Muslim world is based on their culture more than scripture. Your also need four eye witnesses before you could be punished, tricky one that!
Ofa just converted to Islam, so we have two Muslim All Blacks now.
Something tells me he'll struggle to fast during Ramadan
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage If I try and turn it on its head. Folau isn't standing against freedom of sexuality. He is just giving a warning about what he believes will happen to them when they die (assuming literal hell rather than metaphorical), there is no force involved. . Extremist protesters, sponsors and ARU are however attempting to use force (as in removal of income) to stop Folau from speaking his beliefs.
I think that is a real stretch. Folau can speak his mind, he won't get imprisoned or beaten (now that's real force). But he has to accept there are consequences for his actions, just like the rest of us do in everyday life
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt for the second time.
Previously warned. Which for me is a big factor.
And according to the Fitzimmons article his standard contract had no social media clause as it was a standard clause. But there were accompanying documents with the new contract which in essence warned him and his management what would happen if he did it again, and he simply ignored them. He brought this on himself
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Well it's going to be an interesting court case if it comes to that. From what I can tell most people are outraged not by what he said so much as a more extreme interpretation of what he said. I think the ARU made this mistake also rather than follow process.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions