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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@voodoo said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Canadian boreal lake" to be precise, whatever the fuck that is.
If my meteorological memory serves correctly it means arctic or at least far north (as in Aurora "Borealis". As far as climate goes that means long winters, short summers, so not an indicative sample of global climate in any way.
So what do you think should be used?
Ice core samples are supposedly as good as anything to show variations over time and these are only available in the colder regions.
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@Winger For sure ice core is one of the only sources of historical data that we have. Sadly we will lose a lot of that too soon.
The broader ranging reports use a larger sample from both hemispheres to incorporate a "global" perspective not just one spot. Micro climates can skew data was my point and should be viewed as judiciously as you read the New York Times.
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@Winger That sample also only goes back to 8000 years BP. Samples from Greenland go back over 100,000 years, Antarctic way further which gives a much broader range of data globally. This information came from the British Antartic Survey that I read a while back and I'm sure it will be available to read now. They also concluded that CO2 was a major contributing factor in the changes in temperature over time. I know that you don't consider it a pollutant, which is fine, it is a naturally occurring gas and is necessary as you have said but over concentrations can be detrimental.
As for man made consequences - Rate of change (yes, fast changes have occurred in the past) and quantities are the concern and it could just be a coincidence that CO2 quantities have escalated since the industrial revolution. I tend to believe in cause and effect, not coincidence. See what I did there - thinking for myself.
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger That sample also only goes back to 8000 years BP. Samples from Greenland go back over 100,000 years, Antarctic way further which gives a much broader range of data globally. This information came from the British Antartic Survey that I read a while back and I'm sure it will be available to read now. They also concluded that CO2 was a major contributing factor in the changes in temperature over time. I know that you don't consider it a pollutant, which is fine, it is a naturally occurring gas and is necessary as you have said but over concentrations can be detrimental.
As for man made consequences - Rate of change (yes, fast changes have occurred in the past) and quantities are the concern and it could just be a coincidence that CO2 quantities have escalated since the industrial revolution. I tend to believe in cause and effect, not coincidence. See what I did there - thinking for myself.
Except cause and effect has not been proven, it is more like correlation, which isnt proof of anything. Your post does indicate just how much of this is uncertain, and I def agree that Wingers example proves little beyond adding a piece to a puzzle, a small piece in a large puzzle. But both sides love to extrapolate these small pieces out completely.
And for the rest of you, keep your posts civil and play the topic not the man. It isnt just open season on winger
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Winger For sure ice core is one of the only sources of historical data that we have. Sadly we will lose a lot of that too soon.
Nah I dont think we will. But time will tell. I think this will go the same way s lots of other climate predictions. And that is an issue as I think Climate change is going to suffer from chicken little syndrome, and maybe when they really need to pull everyone together, people like me will be so weary and skeptical we wont be reachable. Already I have to woek hard not to instantly dismiss some of the alarmng preditions, and at least try and override my layman based scepticism.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
xcept cause and effect has not been proven, it is more like correlation, which isnt proof of anything.
Therein lies part of the problem - proof of either side is pretty much impossible. Nobody actually knows, but yes, correlation is a better word than coincidence because it has all happened around the same time as man getting all industrial and burning carbon. No proof, just correlation as you say.
I think that we all agree that there is change and that it has happened before. Can we try and minimise the change? Yeah, I think so, and I agree with you Baron, it will be personal responsibility that does it, not governments.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Nah I dont think we will. But time will tell. I think this will go the same way s lots of other climate predictions.
Plenty of core ice at the moment but the further you go to the poles to get it, the more isolated those samples become and less representative of the global situation. Yes climate predictions are unreliable but a trend is there.
See that you have added to your post too. Completely agree about weariness and chicken little. I have thought it a bit "boy who cried wolf" at times, but the evidence does point to a problem and one that can be helped.
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
we wont be reachable
You will be if it makes economic sense as well as helps your children's future.
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I'm all for a cleaner environment, but seriously cardboard straws can get absolutely fucked. Just fucking useless.
Bring back the plastic.
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@mariner4life we have aluminium ones at home for the kids.
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@taniwharugby said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@mariner4life we have aluminium ones at home for the kids.
I hate those too, they have a taste
We just need to accept we peaked the straw at plastic
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@mariner4life straws are for kids...who cares if they taste
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@mariner4life said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@taniwharugby said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@mariner4life we have aluminium ones at home for the kids.
I hate those too, they have a taste
We just need to accept we peaked the straw at plastic
Just ask them if they can fill your own mug.
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Stainless steel ones shouldn't taste and they don't collapse with too much pressure like plastic (and yeah, cardboard are shit).
Gotta say the objective of saving the planet does seem to have diminished a bit in this conversation...
So we are supposed to judge straws based on their ability to withstand pressure?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Stainless steel ones shouldn't taste and they don't collapse with too much pressure like plastic (and yeah, cardboard are shit).
Gotta say the objective of saving the planet does seem to have diminished a bit in this conversation...
So we are supposed to judge straws based on their ability to withstand pressure?
Functionality I think. Straws that collapse and don't deliver the desired result I would class as a fail. That is when in use and get a bit of a blockage they don't work.
Should we be judging them on aesthetics as well? -
@antipodean said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@mariner4life said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@taniwharugby said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@mariner4life we have aluminium ones at home for the kids.
I hate those too, they have a taste
We just need to accept we peaked the straw at plastic
Just ask them if they can fill your own mug.
Good option, but not for frozen coke
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@mariner4life this one has a silicon straw...perfect really, can be cleaned, and still take to the movies for your frozen coke, plus, gooder for the environment, and I'm sure you could get a Darth Vader one if you wanted.
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@taniwharugby said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@mariner4life this one has a silicon straw...perfect really, can be cleaned, and still take to the movies for your frozen coke, plus, gooder for the environment, and I'm sure you could get a Darth Vader one if you wanted.
I think we've got his christmas present sorted. Someone drop a quick word to Mrs M4L.
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@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Stainless steel ones shouldn't taste and they don't collapse with too much pressure like plastic (and yeah, cardboard are shit).
Gotta say the objective of saving the planet does seem to have diminished a bit in this conversation...
So we are supposed to judge straws based on their ability to withstand pressure?
Functionality I think. Straws that collapse and don't deliver the desired result I would class as a fail. That is when in use and get a bit of a blockage they don't work.
Should we be judging them on aesthetics as well?I genuinely have no idea what you are doing with your straws that collapsing due to pressure is a concern.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
@Snowy said in Climate Change #3 & Other Environmental Issues:
Stainless steel ones shouldn't taste and they don't collapse with too much pressure like plastic (and yeah, cardboard are shit).
Gotta say the objective of saving the planet does seem to have diminished a bit in this conversation...
So we are supposed to judge straws based on their ability to withstand pressure?
Functionality I think. Straws that collapse and don't deliver the desired result I would class as a fail. That is when in use and get a bit of a blockage they don't work.
Should we be judging them on aesthetics as well?I genuinely have no idea what you are doing with your straws that collapsing due to pressure is a concern.
I haven't used a straw in several decades, and the technology may have improved, but an icecream blockage would cause the straw to collapse when having a milkshake. That shouldn't happen.
Climate Change