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@Frank said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
There is an argument to be made that currying favour with China in that situation is necessary, otherwise you get the boot and can no longer actually collect any information to pass on to the rest of the world.
So not much they are corrupt, but they are corrupted because they have to curry favor with a authoritarian regime that will cut them off unless they lie to the rest of the world about the danger of this virus and make China look good.
Okaaaaaaaaay.............
no Frank, it is not about not downplaying the danger of the virus, it is about not being damning about China's actions on it.
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@Frank said in US Politics:
If the Democrats win the White House, we all better hope Biden makes a good running mate selection.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
@TeWaio said in US Politics:
I think it was totally the right call by Trump (and I'm no fan). WHO's entire point of existence is to take leadership during the early stages of a (potential) pandemic, and they bottled it.
As @Kirwan says, being weirdly obsessed with what people call it in case racism vs actually getting the advice/science right shows they are more interested in playing politics:
WHO:
Jan 14: No clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of coronavirus
Feb 7: Masks don't necessarily protect you
Feb 22: No benefit to stopping international travelWhen they made those statements they would have had access to better scientific knowledge about the virus than any other organisation globally. Yet they continued to downplay it, just as the Chinese govt did. If they would rather suppress science to curry favour with China then that's fine. The US gives more than twice the funding to WHO than China does. They made their bed and can now lie in it.
https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/funding/revised-2019-invoice/usa_en.pdf?ua=1
https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/funding/revised-2019-invoice/chn_en.pdf
How is that corruption?
There is an argument to be made that currying favour with China in that situation is necessary, otherwise you get the boot and can no longer actually collect any information to pass on to the rest of the world.
Trump did a fair bit of downplaying it too.
There was plenty of evidence available to countries who still delayed acting, including the states.
Regardless of their performance, surely that is something to look at after the event, not during? I don't know when he's cutting the funding, but to undermine them when they are most needed in poor countries is morally reprehensible. The only reason he's doing it now, or at least announcing it now, is so that he has someone else to blame as his own failings kill people in his country.That is a ludicrous post. A world body having to accept lies because they are scared of being denied access?
Why weren't they currying favor with every other country on the planet by actually doing their job. They have one job.... protect the world form diseases, and they failed in that.
I find it interesting that you are so quick to raise Trumps supposed failings. What exactly are those failings? Specifically, not just vague talking points from the left wing media and politicians.
3.5 Billion dollars has gone from the US to WHO, that is the largest contribtion form any country by a mile... and what does the WHO do? Cower before a communist regime and tank the world economy. and cost tens of thousands of lives. The head of the WHO is lucky he hasnt been out up against a wall and shot.Read this article from 2 years ago...
200 million a year in first class flights and 5 start hotels?
"more than what it doles out to fight some of the biggest problems in public health, including AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria combined.”"
And now they are also confirmed as Chinas little bitch?They are definitely corrupt... and useless.. totally and utterly useless.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
@reprobate wouldn't it be lovely if it was about the truth? 🤔
Of course it would, but you're holding the WHO to a very different standard to Mr Trump there.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@TeWaio said in US Politics:
I think it was totally the right call by Trump (and I'm no fan). WHO's entire point of existence is to take leadership during the early stages of a (potential) pandemic, and they bottled it.
As @Kirwan says, being weirdly obsessed with what people call it in case racism vs actually getting the advice/science right shows they are more interested in playing politics:
WHO:
Jan 14: No clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of coronavirus
Feb 7: Masks don't necessarily protect you
Feb 22: No benefit to stopping international travelWhen they made those statements they would have had access to better scientific knowledge about the virus than any other organisation globally. Yet they continued to downplay it, just as the Chinese govt did. If they would rather suppress science to curry favour with China then that's fine. The US gives more than twice the funding to WHO than China does. They made their bed and can now lie in it.
https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/funding/revised-2019-invoice/usa_en.pdf?ua=1
https://www.who.int/about/finances-accountability/funding/revised-2019-invoice/chn_en.pdf
How is that corruption?
There is an argument to be made that currying favour with China in that situation is necessary, otherwise you get the boot and can no longer actually collect any information to pass on to the rest of the world.
Trump did a fair bit of downplaying it too.
There was plenty of evidence available to countries who still delayed acting, including the states.
Regardless of their performance, surely that is something to look at after the event, not during? I don't know when he's cutting the funding, but to undermine them when they are most needed in poor countries is morally reprehensible. The only reason he's doing it now, or at least announcing it now, is so that he has someone else to blame as his own failings kill people in his country.That is a ludicrous post. A world body having to accept lies because they are scared of being denied access?
Why weren't they currying favor with every other country on the planet by actually doing their job. They have one job.... protect the world form diseases, and they failed in that.
I find it interesting that you are so quick to raise Trumps supposed failings. What exactly are those failings? Specifically, not just vague talking points from the left wing media and politicians.
3.5 Billion dollars has gone from the US to WHO, that is the largest contribtion form any country by a mile... and what does the WHO do? Cower before a communist regime and tank the world economy. and cost tens of thousands of lives. The head of the WHO is lucky he hasnt been out up against a wall and shot.Read this article from 2 years ago...
200 million a year in first class flights and 5 start hotels?
"more than what it doles out to fight some of the biggest problems in public health, including AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria combined.”"
And now they are also confirmed as Chinas little bitch?They are definitely corrupt... and useless.. totally and utterly useless.
Yes, unfortunately that is what occurs when you have regimes like China's, or Saudi Arabia, etc etc, and you need something from them. You can't criticise them in the way that you ought to, the world just isn't like that. As per the world ignoring the despicable shit that goes on in Saudi Arabia because they have oil. This is nothing new, so why cry it in defense of Trump when he actively partakes in the same thing himself?
Trump's failings?
Well he congratulated China on how well they were dealing with it...
Downplayed the seriousness of it...
Come in for criticism from scientists...
Tanked the world economy...
Any of that sound familiar?Now he's tweeting 'LIBERATE MICHIGAN', implicitly supporting mass gathering protests?
An article 2 years ago? Where was Trump holding them accountable then? Oh, didn't need a scapegoat at the time I guess. -
@reprobate said in US Politics:
Yes, unfortunately that is what occurs when you have regimes like China's, or Saudi Arabia, etc etc, and you need something from them. You can't criticise them in the way that you ought to, the world just isn't like that.
Yes actually you can. Trump is doing so, as are many others. It is called not being a coward and bending over for a vicious communist regime.
Trump's failings?
Well he congratulated China on how well they were dealing with it...Evidence? And if so, that was probaby when they and the WHO were lying about at great velocity.
Downplayed the seriousness of it...
Most people were, but it was based on the facts that he knew at the time. He also closed off flights to China earlier than people wanted and was called racist and xenophobic, no suddenly he didn't act fats enough. Political bullshit. Tell me do you think he acted to fast or to slow?
Come in for criticism from scientists...
So? Every world leader has come under criticism form scientists. His top science advisers have specifically said he has done well and acted fast. and followed all their recommendations, and these advisers are bi partisan
Tanked the world economy...
Nonsense, just complete and utter nonsense.
Any of that sound familiar?
Actually eys, it is the same bullshit being spouted by the Chinese propaganda machine and the useful idiots in the MSM
Now he's tweeting 'LIBERATE MICHIGAN', implicitly supporting mass gathering protests?
An article 2 years ago? Where was Trump holding them accountable then? Oh, didn't need a scapegoat at the time I guess.The WHO arent a scapegoat they and the Chinese are literally to blame.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
Yes, unfortunately that is what occurs when you have regimes like China's, or Saudi Arabia, etc etc, and you need something from them. You can't criticise them in the way that you ought to, the world just isn't like that.
Yes actually you can. Trump is doing so, as are many others. It is called not being a coward and bending over for a vicious communist regime.
Trump's failings?
Well he congratulated China on how well they were dealing with it...Evidence? And if so, that was probaby when they and the WHO were lying about at great velocity.
Downplayed the seriousness of it...
Most people were, but it was based on the facts that he knew at the time. He also closed off flights to China earlier than people wanted and was called racist and xenophobic, no suddenly he didn't act fats enough. Political bullshit. Tell me do you think he acted to fast or to slow?
Come in for criticism from scientists...
So? Every world leader has come under criticism form scientists. His top science advisers have specifically said he has done well and acted fast. and followed all their recommendations, and these advisers are bi partisan
Tanked the world economy...
Nonsense, just complete and utter nonsense.
Any of that sound familiar?
Actually eys, it is the same bullshit being spouted by the Chinese propaganda machine and the useful idiots in the MSM
Now he's tweeting 'LIBERATE MICHIGAN', implicitly supporting mass gathering protests?
An article 2 years ago? Where was Trump holding them accountable then? Oh, didn't need a scapegoat at the time I guess.The WHO arent a scapegoat they and the Chinese are literally to blame.
Oh yeah sure, Trump totally does that. It's so brave how he calls out oppressive regimes all over the world all the time, based purely on doing the right thing. A true hero.
Based on the facts he knew at the time? But he tells us that he knew it was a pandemic way before anyone else knew it was a pandemic?
You can't say 'closed off flights' problem solved, he acted fast. that's bullshit. one early decision, while downplaying the seriousness, and slow on others, causing death. if he acted so fast, why is the US such a clusterfuck?what exactly do you think the WHO would have to gain by this supposed corruption?
you think they knew it was going to kill a shitload of people, but wanted to maximise that? that's some pretty strong conspiracy theory shit. -
@reprobate said in US Politics:
You can't say 'closed off flights' problem solved, he acted fast. that's bullshit. one early decision, while downplaying the seriousness, and slow on others, causing death. if he acted so fast, why is the US such a clusterfuck?
I'd say because the President isn't powerful enough to be able to have a positive impact on all the cogs required to prevent deaths from a pandemic. Why aren't the same questions posed to Cuomo?
what exactly do you think the WHO would have to gain by this supposed corruption?
Personal gain? Just because people act in the best interests of themselves doesn't mean they had a plan to kill a hundred thousand people. That's just an outcome...
edit - keep in mind I think Trump is the least Statesman like person to hold the highest office I can think of in a democracy.
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Modern political discourse has been hijacked by a blind fallacy that 2 things cannot be correct at the same time.
A total inability ( or unwillingness) to assess issues or performances independently of each other.
The WHO can be another shameless corrupt institution and Donald Trump can be an odious human being.
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@reprobate not going to get into the Trump debate as I don't care that much for US Politics, but, the WHO telling people this virus is no big deal is not the same as criticising China's actions.
They could have said "China has done a wonderful job trying to contain this, but it's very infectious so countries should take appropriate measures to stop the spread now".
But instead they said a highly contagious, deadly virus is no big deal. That makes them worse than useless. The world would have been better off without them as people trusted what they were saying so no measures were taken.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
The WHO can be another shameless corrupt institution and Donald Trump can be an odious human being.
This is exactly right. To add to the general Trump thoughts on the thread: I generally don't think he's been a horrible president, and he does get a bad rap from the media broadly. It drives some people insane if you even consider the fact that some of his actions have had a positive effect.
But fck me he carries on. I mean, during one of the most far-reaching global crises of the past 100 years, he comes into a briefing with a pre-cut video of media coverage he believes is negative/overstated/incorrect. Regardless of the media coverage, to do that is just bonkers.
Not to mention him going on about the TV ratings of his press conferences.
I get that some of it is tongue-in-cheek, and he does have a sense of humour I enjoy at times (again something that nobody acknowledges). But there are times when a leader has to lead. There are times when leaders have to put their arm around a nation more broadly and take everyone with them.
Can we honestly say he's doing that now? I know there are major State vs Federal issues here (but America isn't alone there), and the extent of the crisis isn't really his fault. But I haven't been impressed by his actions in this crisis.
I'd genuinely like to hear the perspective of others here. Because I generally consider myself more sympathetic to Trump than many others, but I can't find much to point to here to suggest he is doing well.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
Yes, unfortunately that is what occurs when you have regimes like China's, or Saudi Arabia, etc etc, and you need something from them. You can't criticise them in the way that you ought to, the world just isn't like that.
Yes actually you can. Trump is doing so, as are many others. It is called not being a coward and bending over for a vicious communist regime.
Trump's failings?
Well he congratulated China on how well they were dealing with it...Evidence? And if so, that was probaby when they and the WHO were lying about at great velocity.
Downplayed the seriousness of it...
Most people were, but it was based on the facts that he knew at the time. He also closed off flights to China earlier than people wanted and was called racist and xenophobic, no suddenly he didn't act fats enough. Political bullshit. Tell me do you think he acted to fast or to slow?
Come in for criticism from scientists...
So? Every world leader has come under criticism form scientists. His top science advisers have specifically said he has done well and acted fast. and followed all their recommendations, and these advisers are bi partisan
Tanked the world economy...
Nonsense, just complete and utter nonsense.
Any of that sound familiar?
Actually eys, it is the same bullshit being spouted by the Chinese propaganda machine and the useful idiots in the MSM
Now he's tweeting 'LIBERATE MICHIGAN', implicitly supporting mass gathering protests?
An article 2 years ago? Where was Trump holding them accountable then? Oh, didn't need a scapegoat at the time I guess.The WHO arent a scapegoat they and the Chinese are literally to blame.
Oh yeah sure, Trump totally does that. It's so brave how he calls out oppressive regimes all over the world all the time, based purely on doing the right thing. A true hero.
Based on the facts he knew at the time? But he tells us that he knew it was a pandemic way before anyone else knew it was a pandemic?
You can't say 'closed off flights' problem solved, he acted fast. that's bullshit. one early decision, while downplaying the seriousness, and slow on others, causing death. if he acted so fast, why is the US such a clusterfuck?what exactly do you think the WHO would have to gain by this supposed corruption?
you think they knew it was going to kill a shitload of people, but wanted to maximise that? that's some pretty strong conspiracy theory shit.So you havent got any counter argument at all?
Just as I thought.
And the WHO is corrupt because they spend vast sums of money living in luxury and getting enormous sums. The leader is a Marxist form a corrupt Ethiopian regime who is completely unqualified. They are clearly in the pocket of China and acted like it, to protect China.
Trump hasnt said he knew it was pandemic before anyone else, dont make stuff up to prop up a weak argument, he acted before the WHO advised countries to act, and the WHO actually criticised him as a racist for blocking flights from affected parts of China. Why did they do that?The US is in trouble because they listened to the WHO and China for to long and then it got a foothold. But what exactly do you think Trump did wrong?
He closed flights and borders faster than the WHO and others (including the Democrats) wanted him to, he created a Pandemic task force on the same day his political opponents signed bullshit articles of impeachment (of course the only comment made by opponents was that the task force had to many white people and therefore Trump was a racist), and he has followed every instruction given to him by the bi partisan medical advisors. he has also tried to push through economic relief and faced opposition in that, from Democrats trying to insert ludicrous components not related to the Wu Flu.Cant you at least try and stick to some facts and not claim people have said or done things they havent said or done. Start by actually saying what he should have done differently.
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@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@reprobate not going to get into the Trump debate as I don't care that much for US Politics, but, the WHO telling people this virus is no big deal is not the same as criticising China's actions.
They could have said "China has done a wonderful job trying to contain this, but it's very infectious so countries should take appropriate measures to stop the spread now".
But instead they said a highly contagious, deadly virus is no big deal. That makes them worse than useless. The world would have been better off without them as people trusted what they were saying so no measures were taken.
When did they say that?
I recall them reporting that it was a significant global health issue, then lamenting the lack of action in various countries, I don't recall them ever saying it wasn't a big deal.
I'm not in a position to realistically judge their speed of response, and i don't think anyone else here is either unless you know what information they had and when they had it. It's quite possible they cocked it up, but it's a new disease and advocating shutting down the world economy is not an easy decision i'm sure. anyway, to go from assuming that they cocked it up, to they're corrupt, to it is right and proper to defund them in the middle of a global health emergency is one hell of a stretch. it's just batshit frankly.
if it was okay for the US to fund them 6 months ago, and the baron is adamant that they were corrupt then, then why the decision now? is it because trump, in the middle of the crisis, has sat down and conducted a thorough review of their operations? no, it's because he wants someone to blame while the US burns. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
Yes, unfortunately that is what occurs when you have regimes like China's, or Saudi Arabia, etc etc, and you need something from them. You can't criticise them in the way that you ought to, the world just isn't like that.
Yes actually you can. Trump is doing so, as are many others. It is called not being a coward and bending over for a vicious communist regime.
Trump's failings?
Well he congratulated China on how well they were dealing with it...Evidence? And if so, that was probaby when they and the WHO were lying about at great velocity.
Downplayed the seriousness of it...
Most people were, but it was based on the facts that he knew at the time. He also closed off flights to China earlier than people wanted and was called racist and xenophobic, no suddenly he didn't act fats enough. Political bullshit. Tell me do you think he acted to fast or to slow?
Come in for criticism from scientists...
So? Every world leader has come under criticism form scientists. His top science advisers have specifically said he has done well and acted fast. and followed all their recommendations, and these advisers are bi partisan
Tanked the world economy...
Nonsense, just complete and utter nonsense.
Any of that sound familiar?
Actually eys, it is the same bullshit being spouted by the Chinese propaganda machine and the useful idiots in the MSM
Now he's tweeting 'LIBERATE MICHIGAN', implicitly supporting mass gathering protests?
An article 2 years ago? Where was Trump holding them accountable then? Oh, didn't need a scapegoat at the time I guess.The WHO arent a scapegoat they and the Chinese are literally to blame.
Oh yeah sure, Trump totally does that. It's so brave how he calls out oppressive regimes all over the world all the time, based purely on doing the right thing. A true hero.
Based on the facts he knew at the time? But he tells us that he knew it was a pandemic way before anyone else knew it was a pandemic?
You can't say 'closed off flights' problem solved, he acted fast. that's bullshit. one early decision, while downplaying the seriousness, and slow on others, causing death. if he acted so fast, why is the US such a clusterfuck?what exactly do you think the WHO would have to gain by this supposed corruption?
you think they knew it was going to kill a shitload of people, but wanted to maximise that? that's some pretty strong conspiracy theory shit.So you havent got any counter argument at all?
Just as I thought.
And the WHO is corrupt because they spend vast sums of money living in luxury and getting enormous sums. The leader is a Marxist form a corrupt Ethiopian regime who is completely unqualified. They are clearly in the pocket of China and acted like it, to protect China.
Trump hasnt said he knew it was pandemic before anyone else, dont make stuff up to prop up a weak argument, he acted before the WHO advised countries to act, and the WHO actually criticised him as a racist for blocking flights from affected parts of China. Why did they do that?The US is in trouble because they listened to the WHO and China for to long and then it got a foothold. But what exactly do you think Trump did wrong?
He closed flights and borders faster than the WHO and others (including the Democrats) wanted him to, he created a Pandemic task force on the same day his political opponents signed bullshit articles of impeachment (of course the only comment made by opponents was that the task force had to many white people and therefore Trump was a racist), and he has followed every instruction given to him by the bi partisan medical advisors. he has also tried to push through economic relief and faced opposition in that, from Democrats trying to insert ludicrous components not related to the Wu Flu.Cant you at least try and stick to some facts and not claim people have said or done things they havent said or done. Start by actually saying what he should have done differently.
So much straw. I'm not talking about democrats, i'm not talking about impeachment, i'm not talking about accusations of racism. this is not an anti-trump tirade that you can just throw your usual 'oh he's treated so unfairly crap' at. it's a specific comment, that his timing of the defunding of the WHO is irresponsible, dangerous, and totally politically motivated.
so trump didn't listen to the WHO and stopped flights, but the US is in trouble because he listened to the WHO. So he is capable of making decisions, but when they're wrong, it's someone else's fault? is that your point? i'm unsure.
how do you know the WHO is in the pocket of China? is there evidence of that, or is it just the current conspiracy theory?
Trump created a pandemic task force. That's sensible. His government also dismantled the previous one though didn't they? -
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@reprobate not going to get into the Trump debate as I don't care that much for US Politics, but, the WHO telling people this virus is no big deal is not the same as criticising China's actions.
When did they say that?
I recall them reporting that it was a significant global health issue, then lamenting the lack of action in various countries, I don't recall them ever saying it wasn't a big deal.Here's a sample from a very quick search:
I agree Trumps early advice was wrong, but that advice was WHO advice and that was being repeated adnauseaum by all media agencies, social media and even on this forum if you're to look back at the coronavirus thread. I only know of 3 journalists who called it correctly, Tim Pool, Tarl Warwick (both independents)and Tucker Carlson (Fox News). Tim and Tarl have had their videos demoted and/or demonestised potentially as a result of the tech giants pushing WHO's message. Apparently Tucker took it upon himself to visit Trump to get him to take it more seriously than what the 'experts' were advising. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/tucker-carlson-on-how-he-brought-coronavirus-message-to-mar-a-lago
Its a sad state of affairs if a journalist has better info than a world health organisation. -
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
Yes, unfortunately that is what occurs when you have regimes like China's, or Saudi Arabia, etc etc, and you need something from them. You can't criticise them in the way that you ought to, the world just isn't like that.
Yes actually you can. Trump is doing so, as are many others. It is called not being a coward and bending over for a vicious communist regime.
Trump's failings?
Well he congratulated China on how well they were dealing with it...Evidence? And if so, that was probaby when they and the WHO were lying about at great velocity.
Downplayed the seriousness of it...
Most people were, but it was based on the facts that he knew at the time. He also closed off flights to China earlier than people wanted and was called racist and xenophobic, no suddenly he didn't act fats enough. Political bullshit. Tell me do you think he acted to fast or to slow?
Come in for criticism from scientists...
So? Every world leader has come under criticism form scientists. His top science advisers have specifically said he has done well and acted fast. and followed all their recommendations, and these advisers are bi partisan
Tanked the world economy...
Nonsense, just complete and utter nonsense.
Any of that sound familiar?
Actually eys, it is the same bullshit being spouted by the Chinese propaganda machine and the useful idiots in the MSM
Now he's tweeting 'LIBERATE MICHIGAN', implicitly supporting mass gathering protests?
An article 2 years ago? Where was Trump holding them accountable then? Oh, didn't need a scapegoat at the time I guess.The WHO arent a scapegoat they and the Chinese are literally to blame.
Oh yeah sure, Trump totally does that. It's so brave how he calls out oppressive regimes all over the world all the time, based purely on doing the right thing. A true hero.
Based on the facts he knew at the time? But he tells us that he knew it was a pandemic way before anyone else knew it was a pandemic?
You can't say 'closed off flights' problem solved, he acted fast. that's bullshit. one early decision, while downplaying the seriousness, and slow on others, causing death. if he acted so fast, why is the US such a clusterfuck?what exactly do you think the WHO would have to gain by this supposed corruption?
you think they knew it was going to kill a shitload of people, but wanted to maximise that? that's some pretty strong conspiracy theory shit.So you havent got any counter argument at all?
Just as I thought.
And the WHO is corrupt because they spend vast sums of money living in luxury and getting enormous sums. The leader is a Marxist form a corrupt Ethiopian regime who is completely unqualified. They are clearly in the pocket of China and acted like it, to protect China.
Trump hasnt said he knew it was pandemic before anyone else, dont make stuff up to prop up a weak argument, he acted before the WHO advised countries to act, and the WHO actually criticised him as a racist for blocking flights from affected parts of China. Why did they do that?The US is in trouble because they listened to the WHO and China for to long and then it got a foothold. But what exactly do you think Trump did wrong?
He closed flights and borders faster than the WHO and others (including the Democrats) wanted him to, he created a Pandemic task force on the same day his political opponents signed bullshit articles of impeachment (of course the only comment made by opponents was that the task force had to many white people and therefore Trump was a racist), and he has followed every instruction given to him by the bi partisan medical advisors. he has also tried to push through economic relief and faced opposition in that, from Democrats trying to insert ludicrous components not related to the Wu Flu.Cant you at least try and stick to some facts and not claim people have said or done things they havent said or done. Start by actually saying what he should have done differently.
So much straw. I'm not talking about democrats, i'm not talking about impeachment, i'm not talking about accusations of racism. this is not an anti-trump tirade that you can just throw your usual 'oh he's treated so unfairly crap' at. it's a specific comment, that his timing of the defunding of the WHO is irresponsible, dangerous, and totally politically motivated.
so trump didn't listen to the WHO and stopped flights, but the US is in trouble because he listened to the WHO. So he is capable of making decisions, but when they're wrong, it's someone else's fault? is that your point? i'm unsure.
how do you know the WHO is in the pocket of China? is there evidence of that, or is it just the current conspiracy theory?
Trump created a pandemic task force. That's sensible. His government also dismantled the previous one though didn't they?No he did not dismantle a previous task force, that was fake news that the gullible fell for. The fact that you still think that is what happened just shows that you need to look at some alternate sources than what you currently do.
Defunding of the WHO is not dangerous or irresponsible. I would argue that to keep funding them is irresponsible and dangerous.
I note you havent actually said what he should have done differently. Typical of criticizers form the sideline who are arguing on ideology and not facts.
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Honest question:
What has Trump done which is so much worse than other Western leaders beyond his personality being offensive and saying some silly things from time to time in the press conferences?Hasn't every Western country got a shitload of cases and major economic contraction?
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@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@reprobate not going to get into the Trump debate as I don't care that much for US Politics, but, the WHO telling people this virus is no big deal is not the same as criticising China's actions.
When did they say that?
I recall them reporting that it was a significant global health issue, then lamenting the lack of action in various countries, I don't recall them ever saying it wasn't a big deal.Here's a sample from a very quick search:
I agree Trumps early advice was wrong, but that advice was WHO advice and that was being repeated adnauseaum by all media agencies, social media and even on this forum if you're to look back at the coronavirus thread. I only know of 3 journalists who called it correctly, Tim Pool, Tarl Warwick (both independents)and Tucker Carlson (Fox News). Tim and Tarl have had their videos demoted and/or demonestised potentially as a result of the tech giants pushing WHO's message. Apparently Tucker took it upon himself to visit Trump to get him to take it more seriously than what the 'experts' were advising. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/tucker-carlson-on-how-he-brought-coronavirus-message-to-mar-a-lago
Its a sad state of affairs if a journalist has better info than a world health organisation.So all I see there is a new disease, with information and knowledge developing, and recommendations flowing from that - because people aren't going to shut down the world economy without proof. i do know that the WHO announced that countries should be making preparations to be able to lock down well before they actually recommending locking down. it's always going to be that sort of timeline, isn't it? unless you have some pretty serious inside info of course.
the 'don't use nasty words' or whatever clip is just irrelevant. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
Yes, unfortunately that is what occurs when you have regimes like China's, or Saudi Arabia, etc etc, and you need something from them. You can't criticise them in the way that you ought to, the world just isn't like that.
Yes actually you can. Trump is doing so, as are many others. It is called not being a coward and bending over for a vicious communist regime.
Trump's failings?
Well he congratulated China on how well they were dealing with it...Evidence? And if so, that was probaby when they and the WHO were lying about at great velocity.
Downplayed the seriousness of it...
Most people were, but it was based on the facts that he knew at the time. He also closed off flights to China earlier than people wanted and was called racist and xenophobic, no suddenly he didn't act fats enough. Political bullshit. Tell me do you think he acted to fast or to slow?
Come in for criticism from scientists...
So? Every world leader has come under criticism form scientists. His top science advisers have specifically said he has done well and acted fast. and followed all their recommendations, and these advisers are bi partisan
Tanked the world economy...
Nonsense, just complete and utter nonsense.
Any of that sound familiar?
Actually eys, it is the same bullshit being spouted by the Chinese propaganda machine and the useful idiots in the MSM
Now he's tweeting 'LIBERATE MICHIGAN', implicitly supporting mass gathering protests?
An article 2 years ago? Where was Trump holding them accountable then? Oh, didn't need a scapegoat at the time I guess.The WHO arent a scapegoat they and the Chinese are literally to blame.
Oh yeah sure, Trump totally does that. It's so brave how he calls out oppressive regimes all over the world all the time, based purely on doing the right thing. A true hero.
Based on the facts he knew at the time? But he tells us that he knew it was a pandemic way before anyone else knew it was a pandemic?
You can't say 'closed off flights' problem solved, he acted fast. that's bullshit. one early decision, while downplaying the seriousness, and slow on others, causing death. if he acted so fast, why is the US such a clusterfuck?what exactly do you think the WHO would have to gain by this supposed corruption?
you think they knew it was going to kill a shitload of people, but wanted to maximise that? that's some pretty strong conspiracy theory shit.So you havent got any counter argument at all?
Just as I thought.
And the WHO is corrupt because they spend vast sums of money living in luxury and getting enormous sums. The leader is a Marxist form a corrupt Ethiopian regime who is completely unqualified. They are clearly in the pocket of China and acted like it, to protect China.
Trump hasnt said he knew it was pandemic before anyone else, dont make stuff up to prop up a weak argument, he acted before the WHO advised countries to act, and the WHO actually criticised him as a racist for blocking flights from affected parts of China. Why did they do that?The US is in trouble because they listened to the WHO and China for to long and then it got a foothold. But what exactly do you think Trump did wrong?
He closed flights and borders faster than the WHO and others (including the Democrats) wanted him to, he created a Pandemic task force on the same day his political opponents signed bullshit articles of impeachment (of course the only comment made by opponents was that the task force had to many white people and therefore Trump was a racist), and he has followed every instruction given to him by the bi partisan medical advisors. he has also tried to push through economic relief and faced opposition in that, from Democrats trying to insert ludicrous components not related to the Wu Flu.Cant you at least try and stick to some facts and not claim people have said or done things they havent said or done. Start by actually saying what he should have done differently.
So much straw. I'm not talking about democrats, i'm not talking about impeachment, i'm not talking about accusations of racism. this is not an anti-trump tirade that you can just throw your usual 'oh he's treated so unfairly crap' at. it's a specific comment, that his timing of the defunding of the WHO is irresponsible, dangerous, and totally politically motivated.
so trump didn't listen to the WHO and stopped flights, but the US is in trouble because he listened to the WHO. So he is capable of making decisions, but when they're wrong, it's someone else's fault? is that your point? i'm unsure.
how do you know the WHO is in the pocket of China? is there evidence of that, or is it just the current conspiracy theory?
Trump created a pandemic task force. That's sensible. His government also dismantled the previous one though didn't they?No he did not dismantle a previous task force, that was fake news that the gullible fell for. The fact that you still think that is what happened just shows that you need to look at some alternate sources than what you currently do.
Defunding of the WHO is not dangerous or irresponsible. I would argue that to keep funding them is irresponsible and dangerous.
I note you havent actually said what he should have done differently. Typical of criticizers form the sideline who are arguing on ideology and not facts.
I'd suggest that when you're linking the national review, you might want to have a look at your own sources.
So, you think funding the WHO is dangerous and irresponsible. It's basically funded by every country in the world: does that mean you think every country in the world is being dangerous and irresponsible by funding them?
How do you think this would have played out without the WHO? Everything would have been fine?
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