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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@reprobate said in NZ Politics:
@chimoaus said in NZ Politics:
Whilst NZ housing affordability is very poor many other countries including Australia are in a very similar boat. One saving grace in Australia is that you can move to a regional hot as fuck town and pick up a bargain.
We are the worst. Sure Aussie is bad too, but not as bad and their house prices are dropping right now, while ours are continuing to go up and at an increasing rate.
That's bad. I don't know how they fix that, capital gains tax in Oz didn't have the desired effect of softening house prices did it?
It is bad, and it's now worse than that graph - I think NZ as a whole is over 7.5 x income now, and Auckland over 8x.
There are a number of things that can be done - the astonishing thing is to not even try. Or even be prepared to talk about the problem really - it's an absolute disaster, and we've just had an election where it was roundly ignored.
One of the staff at our work bought a few months ago and the on paper value has already increased by 6%. The situation is ridiculous, but I don't know how this bubble will ever burst
Only 2 months ago a house down the road from us sold for the highest price seen in the street (and it wasn't the best property in the st by a long shot). Since then the same agents have upped that by 10% for a similar property and the one next door to them also have the owners looking to cash in.
It's crazy. Looking like you could replace one income easily by selling up and downsizing. If apartment type living suited us (it doesn't) I would seriously look at it. -
@Hooroo said in NZ Politics:
Fair enough. I can't back up my claim in any case so may well be wrong.
I actually think you might be correct. Some forestry jobs are quite well paid but I think the Tokoroa (Kinleith) mill closed over a decade ago. Kawerau might be closing as well as of a couple of weeks ago. They were pulp and paper only I think.
Which brings us back to the cost of building materials as Kinleith made framing timber. As I understand it we now export logs, and import the finished framing. The processing isn't done here (not much anyway). CHH is owned by Rank Group (very unfortunate name) and in turn owned by NZ's richest man Graeme Hart. I can see how that works.
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@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
@Hooroo said in NZ Politics:
Fair enough. I can't back up my claim in any case so may well be wrong.
I actually think you might be correct. Some forestry jobs are quite well paid but I think the Tokoroa (Kinleith) mill closed over a decade ago. Kawerau might be closing as well as of a couple of weeks ago. They were pulp and paper only I think.
Which brings us back to the cost of building materials as Kinleith made framing timber. As I understand it we now export logs, and import the finished framing. The processing isn't done here (not much anyway). CHH is owned by Rank Group (very unfortunate name) and in turn owned by NZ's richest man Graeme Hart. I can see how that works.
They are both going strong. (I'm look after both the mills from a finance perspective) The only one looking ropey is Norske Skog as they only make newsprint (at this stage) Covid has decimated that already declining business.
The CHH side of Kinleith is predominately a plywood mill.
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@nzzp I see your Glen Innes house and raise you a house that sold across the road from us in Cannons Creek. 110m ex state house with bare minimum reno and a kitchen cubby you couldn't swing a cat in. Word on the street is it went for 700k!! which trumps (can we still use that word?) the previous highest sale on our street by over 50k in less than a 6 month period.
The horse has bolted so far and so fast it's evolved, got a job, started investing himself, and is now driving a Tesla. -
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
I don't know how this bubble will ever burst
Councils seriously need to make the process easier too. The time and effort that goes into getting consents is a real handbrake on a build, not to mention the cost. I looked at building "affordable" homes in the region, as I have a business that suits, and a team of tradies, and can get the land cheap enough to make it viable but resource consents, building consents, lack of infrastructure, lack of opportunity to subdivide all make it a nightmare.
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@Hooroo said in NZ Politics:
The only one looking ropey is Norske Skog as they only make newsprint (at this stage) Covid has decimated that already declining business.
Isn't that Kawerau?
Tokoroa was massive job cuts that I remember:
So it was just the framing side of it that closed then?
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@Snowy I've heard that Norske Skog is looking at alternative products etc - but the prospects for their current business are dire as Hooroo mentioned.
Seems madness that we can do more to process/utilise our raw production - especially for building related products.
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@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
@Hooroo said in NZ Politics:
The only one looking ropey is Norske Skog as they only make newsprint (at this stage) Covid has decimated that already declining business.
Isn't that Kawerau?
Tokoroa was massive job cuts that I remember:
So it was just the framing side of it that closed then?
Yes, Norske is Kawerau and isn't large. There is also our Pulp mill which is of a reasonable size.
That mill workforce depletion was just the outsourcing of Maintenance of which most of them got a job. We haven't downsized in the past decade in terms of production and if anything the investment is growing
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@chimoaus said in NZ Politics:
Whilst NZ housing affordability is very poor many other countries including Australia are in a very similar boat. One saving grace in Australia is that you can move to a regional hot as fuck town and pick up a bargain.
my regional hot as fuck town has a property boom despite the fact the local economy is completely fucked. New houses are being built everywhere. High end houses are selling sight unseen. Heaps of people from down south buying up.
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When we say affordable housing, is housing affordability about percentage of income spent on housing, or ratio of income to house prices?
I say that because they are affected by different factors, and policies to address them would use different levers for each. My personal thoughts are that the former has more impact on someone's life since it determines whether they can afford to eat, while the latter is more of a policy indicator.
Side note, I'm currently working with Stats data for income - in 2020, median income is $53, 872 and average income is $62,140.
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@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
I don't know how this bubble will ever burst
Councils seriously need to make the process easier too. The time and effort that goes into getting consents is a real handbrake on a build, not to mention the cost. I looked at building "affordable" homes in the region, as I have a business that suits, and a team of tradies, and can get the land cheap enough to make it viable but resource consents, building consents, lack of infrastructure, lack of opportunity to subdivide all make it a nightmare.
Consents, and the RMA as Judith was banging on about need to be made easier
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@Paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
Word on the street is it went for 700k!!
www.homes.co.nz has sales information for free if you're nosy (or interested, or in the market)...
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@canefan TBH, having worked in the Dept at a Council issuing consents, it is probably as much if not more to do with staff resources than anything else; given they arent able to pay the staff rates they can get outside Council, and are always operating at or below required FTE ratios, again due to minimising costs.
These all impact time, especially when legislation specifies how long LIMs, Consents etc should take, but is easy for council to get around that and prolong the process.
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@Paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
@nzzp it only sold a few days ago so I'm waiting for it to come through
I keep thinking 700k just can't be right, but ....
it probably is. Housing is brutal.
When I came back from overseas in '07, I thought it was tough to get a house. Prices were nuts, floating rates were 9-10%, and my partner and I on decent incomes were nowhere near a good place. Our standards were not high, but goddamn the prices people paid. Now, it's far worse than that even, and it's no longer just Auckland.
We lost a couple of great professionals at work about 5 years ago, who moved to Whangarei, and one stopped working. Dual good incomes but no where near a family home short or long term. It's nuts.
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@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in NZ Politics:
@nzzp it only sold a few days ago so I'm waiting for it to come through
I keep thinking 700k just can't be right, but ....
it probably is. Housing is brutal.
When I came back from overseas in '07, I thought it was tough to get a house. Prices were nuts, floating rates were 9-10%, and my partner and I on decent incomes were nowhere near a good place. Our standards were not high, but goddamn the prices people paid. Now, it's far worse than that even, and it's no longer just Auckland.
We lost a couple of great professionals at work about 5 years ago, who moved to Whangarei, and one stopped working. Dual good incomes but no where near a family home short or long term. It's nuts.
If I could hop in the Delorean I would go back and buy up a shitload of property. It has always grown steadily but the unitary plan advent seems to have coincided with prices exploding
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It cost me $14,165 to get resource consent for my place and took 6 months. I had to use an "agent" because I didn't have the time for all of the backwards and forwards with council. That is without the building consent, wastewater system, drainage plan, engineering report, geotech, etc, etc.
If they want to improve the housing supply they can start there, and I will do a few eco houses (at the right price) within commuting distance of Auckland that don't need infrastructure other than roads and power (ideally). Wastewater is easy and so is tank water.
@taniwharugby Yes it probably is being short staffed that causes some delays but it is the complexity of the system and some ridiculous conditions that one person will decide on which drive me nuts. Fucking paint a natural timber retining wall grey. WTF for? Timber ends up grey, or at least looks natural compared to paint. I have to plant in front it, no problem would have anyway, but how am I supposed to paint it again, that won't last forever. Nobody can see the thing, it's in the middle of 22 acres with nobody in front of it. Took me weeks to sort that one out. I own a paint store but that was so ludicrous that I fought it.
That is just a minor rant - I could go on. The point being if the rules were easier to deal with there would be more houses and built quicker (supply and cost of materials notwithstanding).
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@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
If they want to improve the housing supply they can start there, and I will do a few eco houses (at the right price) within commuting distance of Auckland that don't need infrastructure other than roads and power (ideally). Wastewater is easy and so is tank water.
Power should be able to go off-grid with some smart design and nothing too special. Could well be cheaper than paying development contributions to Vector!
Solar + Powerwall + smart appliances + wood/gas heating + solar hot water = off grid
Edit: our resident @nta should know the answer
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