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There will, of course, be a non-zero amount of 'fraud' and irregularities found across nearly 15 million votes.
This is not unusual though. It is an accepted fact.
To imply that it is an orchestrated plot across not only the 'plotters' but officials is not only irresponsible and crazy but undermines the political system.
Now a situation has been created that destroys the trust in the process for millions, and a democracy is pretty difficult to run when that happens.
So far the 'evidence' amounts to a lot of small individual matters with heaps of conclusions being jumped to.
Do those matters, even if proved, amount to orchestrated fraud that overturns results? I very much doubt it and Rudi G is shouting at clouds.
Not only has Biden won the popular vote by a staggering amount that would be extremely difficult to 'switch' or corrupt but the result is in line with pre-election polling for a long period. All presumed blue and presumed red states have stayed the same as have all 'leaning' (ie 5-10%). If you were going to organise a result the easiest way would be to flip one of those or one of the high tossups like Texas or Florida where one shift could do it for you.
Instead it is the usually closely contested states that are behaving as normal.
Nothing to see here insofar as materiality.But hey, lets turn the US into a third world fledgling democracy just to appease the ego of a narcissist.
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
From 2016 when the useless computer systems weren't questioned. Breaks down figures on those systems using optical scan to read a paper vote and those that are direct interface.
The country is so large I suppose authorities baulk at the cost of a full scale upgrade of entire systems
It was done in 2002. Billions were allocated to states. But no standards were set for elections. Now its run by private companies with nil supervision and the data is stored on the internet (outside the US). So hacking etc. These companies do elections all over the world. They tabulate the vote counting. There are no security stds. The software is poor
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@canefan said in US Politics:
If I was rigging a presidential election I would make sure to win the house and the senate too....
It was hard as Trump got too many votes. 6 million more than last time. Lots more than Obama for example
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
From 2016 when the useless computer systems weren't questioned. Breaks down figures on those systems using optical scan to read a paper vote and those that are direct interface.
The country is so large I suppose authorities baulk at the cost of a full scale upgrade of entire systems
It was done in 2002. Billions were allocated to states. But no standards were set for elections. Now its run by private companies with nil supervision and the data is stored on the internet (outside the US). So hacking etc. These companies do elections all over the world. They tabulate the vote counting. There are no security stds. The software is poor
No security standards? That is patently wrong.
Why do you think that large competent cyber security businesses exist? Ones whose reputations and incomes depend on impartiality and high levels of proof?
Why are these companies engaged by govts (yes, including the Trump administration) to monitor traffic and analyse irregularities?
But hey, go ahead with the nonsensical position that there is unfettered access for hackers to govt used databases.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
If I was rigging a presidential election I would make sure to win the house and the senate too....
It was hard as Trump got too many votes. 6 million more than last time. Lots more than Obama for example
They went all out to stuff the presidential ballots but couldn't do the same for the Senate? Given the number of Electors for each state is the same as that state's Senators + Representatives, how could they correctly judge one and not the other?
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I desewrve a medal. I have just waded through all the posts in this thread since I last visited Friday afternoon.
To save anyone else having to do so - here's a quick precis
Joe Biden has been declared the winner of the 2020 US Presidential election by almost everyone except President Trump and diehard supporters.
Most of the pro Trump posters on this forum seem to have deserted the topic
@Winger hasn't .....
Consensus seems to be there has undoubtedly been small scale voter fraud as there is in every election everywhere but insignificant in the overall picture and not going to impact the election result.
Logic attests to the above
(ex) President Trump and Winger disagree.
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@dogmeat said in US Politics:
@Winger hasn't .....
But have you watched this video for eg. Its shows clear evidence of the Dominion voting totals being changed (well in excess of 100,000 votes) to benefit Joe. My view is the media (and everyone) should wait to see how this all plays out rather than jumping in an announcing a winner.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
No security standards? That is patently wrong.
Based on what. Your assumption that there is. Or actual evidence
Hard evidence? About as much as your unfounded allegation.
Soft evidence? These security companies exist and some are engaged by the US govt. Their engagement is to monitor the cyber security of US data, information and systems. This is fact.
Now if you were charged with the security of voting data it would be pretty logical that you use the facilities in place to do so. Logical and a very high chance of being correct.
Some person states that there is no security? Illogical and highly likely to be incorrect.
Possibility that someone has fucked up by not putting security in place? Remotely possible but unlikely.So you can choose to belive logic and fact or just believe an unfounded statement. Your choice.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
If I was rigging a presidential election I would make sure to win the house and the senate too....
It was hard as Trump got too many votes. 6 million more than last time. Lots more than Obama for example
Yes. A record voter turnout will do that.
Funny how you're not questioning ANY of those Trump votes tho...
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@NTA said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
If I was rigging a presidential election I would make sure to win the house and the senate too....
It was hard as Trump got too many votes. 6 million more than last time. Lots more than Obama for example
Yes. A record voter turnout will do that.
Funny how you're not questioning ANY of those Trump votes tho...
The whole thing needs to be looked at. Esp the security and accuracy of these voter tabulation databases (and where the data is held). And the companies (based on Spain or Germany maybe) that own and run them
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@Winger so pause the outcome of the entire election to review the status of all technology employed in said elections... that had (hopefully) been fully vetted and checked by all parties involved ahead of time.. and as part of prior elections also.
Got it.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@NTA said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
If I was rigging a presidential election I would make sure to win the house and the senate too....
It was hard as Trump got too many votes. 6 million more than last time. Lots more than Obama for example
Yes. A record voter turnout will do that.
Funny how you're not questioning ANY of those Trump votes tho...
The whole thing needs to be looked at. Esp the security and accuracy of these voter tabulation databases (and where the data is held). And the companies (based on Spain or Germany maybe) that own and run them
Why now though? What evidence points to problems in this area that haven't already been checked out?
Do you actually maintain that almost 5 million votes in this election have been tampered? That's the popular margin.Now we all know that isn't the EC system but 5 million more voters want Biden over Trump. Time to accept that situation and move on.
If there are genuine issues exposed in a study of the election then by all means look to tighten things or change the system. I think we were all saying that in the previous months.
IIRC you maintained that Trump would win by a very large margin. The shift from that to the current situation is massive. Far more than a few dead people or immigrants without full paperwork or voting station errors. -
@Siam said in US Politics:
It'd be great Leadership from Joe if he publicly supported an investigation.
Would expose Trump's tactics and be a genuine first step to uniting the country. Take away the them and us rhetoric
I will admit that I think his acceptance has been a little early and doesn't acknowledge the recounts let alone the accusations.
Would have been good to urge the recounts to be done quickly at least.
Best way to combat the fraud accusations is to admit that no system is foolproof but that the weight of evidence and confidence amounts to no material effect.
US Politics