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@antipodean said in US Politics:
@Stargazer said in US Politics:
Not regularly following this thread, so apologies if it has already been discussed.
How is it possible, in the USA, for an outgoing President, to pardon people who haven't even been charged of crimes, yet? And is it a blanket pardon that covers every single possible breach of the law?
The pardon has to be for specific crimes, and has to be accepted the "pardonee". A President has been held to have unlimited power by the Supreme Court since Ex parte Garland, 71 U.S. 333 (https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/71/333/) after the commission of a crime. Edit - but only for Federal crimes.
The Constitution prohibits pardons against impeachment.
Pardons don't have to be for specific crimes, as Ford's pardon of Nixon was broader than a stated list of crimes, and amnesties can be issued using the pardon, as Lincoln did during the civil war (and Charles II did following the Restoration).
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@Stargazer weren't those blackwater guys done for essentially murder? Can recall there was some international condemnation of that.
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“We are the law and order party” Trump handing out pardons like lolly water pretty much sums up the guy. Actually I think you have to buy the pardons. Which sums him up even more.
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@Billy-Tell said in US Politics:
Actually I think you have to buy the pardons. Which sums him up even more.
Perfect fundraising opportunity
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what I find interesting, and I've done a little googling but not definitive
people seem to be saying Trump will pardon 150 odd people plus maybe 100 he had already pardoned up until the end of the last year which I thought was a lot, until looking into it
Obama pardoned 1927, Bush 200, Clinton 459, Bush snr 77, Reagan 406, Carter 566, Nixon 926, Johnson 1187...etc
so at 250ish...hes on the low end
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@Paekakboyz Yeah, one was convicted of murder, three of manslaughter and firearm charges. If those Blackwater employees had been tried and convicted outside the USA (under international or Iraqi law), they couldn't have been pardoned.
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
what I find interesting, and I've done a little googling but not definitive
people seem to be saying Trump will pardon 150 odd people plus maybe 100 he had already pardoned up until the end of the last year which I thought was a lot, until looking into it
Obama pardoned 1927, Bush 200, Clinton 459, Bush snr 77, Reagan 406, Carter 566, Nixon 926, Johnson 1187...etc
so at 250ish...hes on the low end
The Obama number is fantastic trivia question
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The whole thing is a crock of shît. We are not in 16th century royal France where the king pardons at his fancy. The latest pardon list is a who’s who of white collar crime. Sends out such a poor message.
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@Billy-Tell yeah seems crazy in a democracy today that the leader can pardon his mates or those he chooses, something you'd expect in a dictatorship.
Is there a line as to what the President can pardon someone for?
EDIT: I see that has been mentioned above, he can pretty much pardon anyone charged for anything under US laws?
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@Godder said in US Politics:
The ACA was heavily tinkered with when the penalty for not having insurance was reduced to 0.
Company boss: "OK, I need to spend $2m a year on health insurance for my workers or pay a $1,000 fine."
Obama: "We have made affordable health care a reality"
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@canefan said in US Politics:
Otherwise why would anyone who is not of sufficient means not want subsidized or free health care?
Huge swathes of it were subsidised and free - particularly for the over-60's. (Google The Donut).
Can understand the antipathy to government running & controlling healthcare but there were/are models which would have got around that problem and been far more cost-effective.
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@Billy-Tell said in US Politics:
The whole thing is a crock of shît. We are not in 16th century royal France where the king pardons at his fancy. The latest pardon list is a who’s who of white collar crime. Sends out such a poor message.
Nice to see such absolute faith in a "systemically racist" justice system
Uh oh... black lives don't matter all the time huh?
Alice Marie Johnson was serving life in a federal prison for a nonviolent drug conviction before her case was brought to Mr. Trump’s attention by the reality television star Kim Kardashian West.
The president’s decision to commute her sentence freed Ms. Johnson, who had been locked up in Alabama since 1996 on charges related to cocaine distribution and money laundering. Mr. Trump later pardoned Ms. Johnson on Aug. 28, 2019.
I don't think pardoning people is a point of difference between presidents
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Having one person unilaterally grant pardons is the antithesis of democracy. For the rest, too bored to go into yet another BLM discussion etc.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
Obama pardoned 1927
Easier than Foreign policy, I guess.
How many were bankers in 2008 😉
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@Billy-Tell said in US Politics:
Having one person unilaterally grant pardons is the antithesis of democracy.
I think it's more the antithesis of an independent judiciary.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
How many were bankers in 2008
I'm sure Senators Gramm, Leach, Bliley & Slick Willie would know.
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@pakman said in US Politics:
What I do recall is that owing to epidemics and splintering of the tribal group the wealth created dissapated pretty dramatically. Ring any bells?
Nope. Only researched NZ's attitude to Germany and what was going on in Samoa. Some very serious concerns about the treatment of Samoan culture in both the media and government and across pakeha/maori lines.
I think we were gifted in NZ with some outstanding leaders at that time - unlike the US today. (just to bring us back on topic)
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