Coronavirus - New Zealand
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I'm honestly sick to the gills of the 'be kind' message, which seems to be getting conflated with 'things aren't that bad, it's ok if you don't do xyz'
At this point, I'm totally cool with some punitive steps for those who flout the rules. I'm also cool with the govt getting asked tough questions relentlessly, cos some of these things are fucking annoying to still be happening a year in.
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@mokey said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm honestly sick to the gills of the 'be kind' message, which seems to be getting conflated with 'things aren't that bad, it's ok if you don't do xyz'
At this point, I'm totally cool with some punitive steps for those who flout the rules. I'm also cool with the govt getting asked tough questions relentlessly, cos some of these things are fucking annoying to still be happening a year in.
Things happen. But it gets annoying when it appears that nothing has changed in terms of improving our ability to prevent and limit the spread of the disease
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's going to be a long and tortuous path to stability if the goal remains elimination until vaccination.
And if the expected tail hangs around. How do you feel about periodic lockdowns for 4 years?
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We've spent decades as a society and government moving to light-handed regulation, so it's hardly a surprise that when society suddenly changes its tune, the government is reluctant and the public service unable to implement that switch quickly.
Alongside that are the general civil liberties that make this harder than if we didn't have those. We could move to more active regulatory interventions, but that will take years to scale up.
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it just doesnt feel like we are learning (Govt and general populace) and often feels like we get a knee jerk reaction to something, then a slow-motion one to others.
With these people testing negative, assume when they have tested negative they have been negative and it has only been possible continuous exposure to the virus that they eventually catch it, rather than the more worrying option of people having it and testing negative.
Have to think with the movements of this latest case, our luck has run out and there will be further cases this week, guess the thing to stop L4 is that the cases all need to be linked, although if we get several that arent all same household ones in one day it will become tricky to stay at L3
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so a new case to (Case O) but is a household contact to cases I, J, K & L
Case O was transferred to the Auckland quarantine facility on February 23 as a precautionary measure. The person became symptomatic yesterday and returned a positive Covid-19 test this afternoon. This means that Case O has been in quarantine for their infectious period.
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Perhaps I am too cynical, but I cant see much changing in NZ until full vaccination is achieved.
Westerners are just not made for success in stamping out the virus.
Young people in particular are too freedom loving and unwilling to make small sacrifices like mandatory mask wearing. A she'll be right attitude.
A soft-ass govt with general establishment and scientific support for continuous lockdowns while NZ goes deeper into debt propping up businesses.I harp on about this, but here in Taiwan, they are actually afraid of the virus.
Mandatory mask wearing in most places.
2nd most densely populated country in the world, but have not had a single lockdown.Taiwan has had cases come into the general population a couple of times (one being a Kiwi pilot who bullshitted) and those cases have had massive contact with the public, but the authorities just did their cellphone contact tracing + the benefits of mask wearing and it was fine. No lockdowns.
Early and strict border controls, a ban on foreign visitors and mandatory quarantine for all Taiwanese returning home. NZ is doing all of this (aren't they??), but something is going wrong somewhere.
The cost of this in terms of debt raising is coming for the future.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's going to be a long and tortuous path to stability if the goal remains elimination until vaccination.
Do you really think the vaccine will make any difference? It will be say oh there's a new variant (that will go on forever) that needs yet another vaccine. That isn't ready yet.
My view is it won't stop until people collectively stop being so very compliant (and even want to punish people or dob people in who aren't good children). And accept that trying to stop a virus is like trying to stop the tide coming in. And think that maybe the way we did things in the past wasn't so bad.
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I propose the measure of Covid response effectiveness include some objective economic numbers - how much debt is being raised as % of GDP to fund lockdowns, how many jobs have been lost etc.
That would be transparency.
Being kind and giving looks of pained empathy without hard punitive measures for those breaking the rules just doesn't cut it.
Example - a guy here in Taiwan broke the quarantine rules after being warned for breaking it once- fine 50,000 NZD. -
@winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's going to be a long and tortuous path to stability if the goal remains elimination until vaccination.
Do you really think the vaccine will make any difference? It will be say oh there's a new variant (that will go on forever) that needs yet another vaccine. That isn't ready yet.
My view is it won't stop until people collectively stop being so very compliant (and even want to punish people or dob people in who aren't good children). And accept that trying to stop a virus is like trying to stop the tide coming in. And think that maybe the way we did things in the past wasn't so bad.
Shit man, I don't know. I've been saying for a long time that I'd like to hear some thoughts on the state of play needed for borders to open up and regular lockdowns to stop. Like you, I'm not that confident in it happening, we all seem to be really supportive of these repeat lockdowns (see election results over the last 12 months around the world)
I'm certainly of the view that elimination policy is a fallacy, and we need to move on from that.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's going to be a long and tortuous path to stability if the goal remains elimination until vaccination.
Do you really think the vaccine will make any difference? It will be say oh there's a new variant (that will go on forever) that needs yet another vaccine. That isn't ready yet.
My view is it won't stop until people collectively stop being so very compliant (and even want to punish people or dob people in who aren't good children). And accept that trying to stop a virus is like trying to stop the tide coming in. And think that maybe the way we did things in the past wasn't so bad.
Shit man, I don't know. I've been saying for a long time that I'd like to hear some thoughts on the state of play needed for borders to open up and regular lockdowns to stop. Like you, I'm not that confident in it happening, we all seem to be really supportive of these repeat lockdowns (see election results over the last 12 months around the world)
I'm certainly of the view that elimination policy is a fallacy, and we need to move on from that.
Our initial strategy bought us valuable time and we wasted it
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@winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's going to be a long and tortuous path to stability if the goal remains elimination until vaccination.
Do you really think the vaccine will make any difference?
It has in Israel & the UK. NZ has an opportunity to keep it's death rate really low, protect its population and open up the economy safely.
And accept that trying to stop a virus is like trying to stop the tide coming in. And think that maybe the way we did things in the past wasn't so bad.
If you can't stop it, then you protect people against it with vaccines - as we do/did with 'flu & smallpox,
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's going to be a long and tortuous path to stability if the goal remains elimination until vaccination.
Do you really think the vaccine will make any difference?
It has in Israel & the UK. NZ has an opportunity to keep it's death rate really low, protect its population and open up the economy safely.
And accept that trying to stop a virus is like trying to stop the tide coming in. And think that maybe the way we did things in the past wasn't so bad.
If you can't stop it, then you protect people against it with vaccines - as we do/did with 'flu & smallpox,
Protection is the best option. Just need to reduce the virus to the point where it isn't as lethal anymore. Just like the flu
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@frank said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I propose the measure of Covid response effectiveness include some objective economic numbers - how much debt is being raised as % of GDP to fund lockdowns, how many jobs have been lost etc.
That would be transparency.
Being kind and giving looks of pained empathy without hard punitive measures for those breaking the rules just doesn't cut it.
Example - a guy here in Taiwan broke the quarantine rules after being warned for breaking it once- fine 50,000 NZD.This sounds Ok (not to me but to some) Except when the rules get even more restrictive and silly (and that's likely the future) ... And all the rules are in the law books to support this. So be careful supporting this. It might impact you or your family etc before long,
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you can't stop it, then you protect people against it with vaccines - as we do/did with 'flu & smallpox,
You have more confidence than me. Esp based on the flu vaccine that didn't seem to protect that well. I worked with people who were sick for months one year and they all (at least the ones that I asked) got the flu shot.
And I've read 2 reports (one on the silverfern) were someone had the covid vaccine and a short spell after got covid. So I hope you're right but ...
And has the Uk opened everything back up?
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@winger said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
If you can't stop it, then you protect people against it with vaccines - as we do/did with 'flu & smallpox,
You have more confidence than me. Esp based on the flu vaccine that didn't seem to protect that well. I worked with people who were sick for months one year and they all (at least the ones that I asked) got the flu shot.
Personally, I prefer to base my judgments on controlled, peer-reviewed, independently-assessed clinical studies rather than what the bloke who works with me says.
And I've read 2 reports (one on the silverfern) were someone had the covid vaccine and a short spell after got covid. So I hope you're right but ...
The vaccine protects against serious illness and hospitalisation & transmission - it doesn't stop you catching it. All vaccines work like that.
And has the Uk opened everything back up?
In stages as the vaccination program rolls out. Expected to be pretty much back to normal in 12-13 weeks time.