NH club rugby



  • Your point is correct though the ECC or whatever they call the Heineken these days doesn't have some sort of salary cap as far as I am aware. There are rules about player eligibility if they transfer and what not but nothing about the club's player salarys.



  • So, based on our discussion so far, they'll probably not get any real punishment.

    I'll bet they still make the playoffs this year.



  • @gt12 said in NH club rugby:

    So, based on our discussion so far, they'll probably not get any real punishment.

    I'll bet they still make the playoffs this year.

    Given that they will take this on appeal / review, I'd say you are correct gt12



  • Whatever the outcome this is a bad situation for English rugby and possibly the club game in the NH as a whole. It’s like drugs in cycling, you just wonder “who else”?



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  • Want proof of how much media has been up their arse?



  • Unless you're a Times subscriber, the Walrus is an irrelevance.



  • @gt12 said in NH club rugby:

    So, based on our discussion so far, they'll probably not get any real punishment.

    I'll bet they still make the playoffs this year.

    They've receive the punishment, as recommended by an independant panel. It will be a very hard sell to stop it, mitigate maybe. Esp hard sell when the other clubs want them taken down a peg or two



  • @Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

    Whatever the outcome this is a bad situation for English rugby and possibly the club game in the NH as a whole. It’s like drugs in cycling, you just wonder “who else”?

    I'd go with the ones making big name signings. 😉



  • You look at the squad sheet for Saracen's, the number of big names. Sure they will get player's stay due to the environment and loyalty, like the ABs, and if you want to play for England you might as well be at a winning team in the Premiership. But some of those player's must be on a relative pittance to their value, they could get at other clubs, let alone overseas.



  • @Machpants said in NH club rugby:

    You look at the squad sheet for Saracen's, the number of big names. Sure they will get player's stay due to the environment and loyalty, like the ABs, and if you want to play for England you might as well be at a winning team in the Premiership. But some of those player's must be on a relative pittance to their value, they could get at other clubs, let alone overseas.

    They should be on a relative pittance your right.

    But they aren’t. And that’s the issue.



  • Saracens have been fined and had points deducted for breaching the salary cap in the last three seasons (2016-2017, 2017-2018 and 2018-2019),
    The sanction that has been imposed on Saracens Rugby Club by the panel is:

    • a total fine of £5,360,272.31
    • and a total deduction of 35 league points.

    Full statements from both sides:
    https://www.premiershiprugby.com/news/premiership-rugby-statement-decision-on-salary-cap-charges
    https://www.saracens.com/club-statement-salary-cap/

    My understanding is that they didn't directly breach the salary cap, but had an investment structure that financially benefited the players (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47523241) and that this has been ruled as part of their salary.

    Anyone know more?



  • See the NH rugby thread.

    Mods? Maybe move this over?



  • Petulant or embarrassed?
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  • @Daffy-Jaffy said in NH club rugby:

    Petulant or embarrassed?
    2e7f3f09-31df-4e49-926e-b4be1d3daea2-image.png

    Depends on how you'd think they'd react to coming second...





  • @Daffy-Jaffy sensible decision to keep the players away from the media. They aren't in a position to say anything really. Also it would have and is a bit overshowdow the day



  • I don't follow NH club rugby that closely. But Saracens are clearly not liked by other clubs!
    Loads of clubs welcoming the punishment. Some more than others.

    I have now seen 2 articles quoting Harlequins players putting the boot in to Saracens. Chris Robshaw and Danny Care.
    Guess there is no love lost there. The word "cheating" seems to be part of the script - all of which has a tinge of irony coming from the "Bloodgate" club - where both Robshaw and Care played at the time of that particular cheating scandal.



  • @Billy-Webb said in NH club rugby:

    I don't follow NH club rugby that closely. But Saracens are clearly not liked by other clubs!
    Loads of clubs welcoming the punishment. Some more than others.

    I have now seen 2 articles quoting Harlequins players putting the boot in to Saracens. Chris Robshaw and Danny Care.
    Guess there is no love lost there. The word "cheating" seems to be part of the script - all of which has a tinge of irony coming from the "Bloodgate" club - where both Robshaw and Care played at the time of that particular cheating scandal.

    That's quite a considerable difference in scale though.

    This cheating means that Saracens have been able to maintain a much stronger squad, pushing up the costs of players at other clubs (as all players are benchmarked), win more trophies which in turn means higher gate revenues, and more and more advantages to the club which others didn't get.

    I don't believe in punishing the fans or the players for the actions of the top brass, so I'm not quite of the same drag them through the coals as others. But the top brass should be fired with immediate effect and never allowed to return to rugby administration.



  • @MajorRage said in NH club rugby:

    @Billy-Webb said in NH club rugby:

    I don't follow NH club rugby that closely. But Saracens are clearly not liked by other clubs!
    Loads of clubs welcoming the punishment. Some more than others.

    I have now seen 2 articles quoting Harlequins players putting the boot in to Saracens. Chris Robshaw and Danny Care.
    Guess there is no love lost there. The word "cheating" seems to be part of the script - all of which has a tinge of irony coming from the "Bloodgate" club - where both Robshaw and Care played at the time of that particular cheating scandal.

    That's quite a considerable difference in scale though.

    This cheating means that Saracens have been able to maintain a much stronger squad, pushing up the costs of players at other clubs (as all players are benchmarked), win more trophies which in turn means higher gate revenues, and more and more advantages to the club which others didn't get.

    I don't believe in punishing the fans or the players for the actions of the top brass, so I'm not quite of the same drag them through the coals as others. But the top brass should be fired with immediate effect and never allowed to return to rugby administration.

    My initial inclination is to concur @MajorRage
    Although, what Bloodgate had laid bare, was that Harlequins back in 2009 had a well documented plan and practice in place to cheat, by faking blood injuries. It wasn't just that one instance. And they were doing it to, and I use your words here: "win more trophies which in turn means higher gate revenues, and more and more advantages to the club".

    It may well not have delivered as good a set of results as Saracens flouting of the salary cap, but should we cut them more slack simply because their cheating was less effective?

    Can't remember Harlequins being docked any points? Maybe they did. Dean Richards got a 3 year ban, and the player involved got a 1 year ban which was then reduced to 4 months.

    So Sarries will have to suck up what's coming their way, although I think your proposed punishment is a touch harsh.

    And I bring up Bloodgate only because it feels like a case of pot and kettle here. If I were Robshaw, Care and in fact anyone with anything to do at Harlequins, I'd keep references to cheating very far from my lexicon.



  • @Billy-Webb said in NH club rugby:

    the player involved got a 1 year ban which was then reduced to 4 months.

    Tom Williams. I worked with his Dad. Top bloke and knew his rugby, but it was always a bit awkward talking with him after that.

    Also worked with David Millar's (the Scottish doper cyclist) dad, but he was a complete jerk so I mentioned it all of the time.

    In both cases the cheating really affected the fathers, very public and very humiliating.



  • Waisake Naholo scored on debut for London Irish in their win against Leicester Tigers:



  • @sparky I wonder if they sung the song?



  • Luatua was very good for Bristol. MOTM went to Hughes though

    Down 17-0 at HT they scored a try in the final play of the match to steal it

    Bristol top of the table after four rounds



  • Oops



  • @Duluth Luatua pulled off a tremendous cover tackle to stop that carthorse Cuthbert scoring in the corner. A pivotal moment.



  • Southerm Kings got their first PRO14 win for the season agaibst the Ospreys in Swansea. The Cheetahs struggle after starting at home with a bang. Both teams have new coaches.



  • @Catogrande said in NH club rugby:

    @Duluth Luatua pulled off a tremendous cover tackle to stop that carthorse Cuthbert scoring in the corner. A pivotal moment.

    Yup, the game would have been unwinnable if the Chiefs scored then.

    About 2mins into this video. Just a good early decision and hard work



  • @Duluth That's excellent considering there was only one ruck from the lineout on the other side of the park. And he was involved in that tackle too.



  • Not sure if that game/ref is indicative of current rulings but man there are loads of players just diving over rucks and the refs letting it go.
    I know that materiality plays a part but those players often take up space behind the ruck making it harder for defences to get set in close.



  • Highlights from that LI v Leicester game. Naholo had a pretty decent first game. Several other Kiwis (or NZ raised anyway) also featuring for LI in Hepetema, Matu'u, TJ Ioane, Rona and Blair Cowan. Taufua made his debut for Leicester. Failed a HIA just before HT and was only really notable for getting warned by the ref on a few occasions, including a reversed pen for the 2nd, for screaming at him.



  • @Duluth I like Bristol. I might make them my preferred English club.



  • Sarries can't help themselves -
    Saracens set to sign South African forward.
    The Stormers could be set to lose another player as promising young lock Cobus Wiese is reportedly in talks over a long-term move to Saracens.
    Wiese is in advanced negotiations with the defending Premiership and European champions and has been offered a five-year deal.
    That would have him qualifying to play for England at the end of his contract.
    The 22-year-old is one of the Stormers’ most promising players and was seen as someone who could fill the void left by Eben Etzebeth’s departure to Toulon.

    The rumoured deal comes in the midst of Saracens facing heavy sanctions for breaking the Premiership salary cap. Saracens are set to appeal the suspended 35-point deduction and £5-million fine imposed on the club.



  • @Daffy-Jaffy Dislike. On so many levels.



  • He's going to work as a drainlayer/plumber whilst at the club as his salary is so low......

    Related headline "Saracens appoint PR firm to stop questions on salary-cap breach" looks like they are concentrating on the important parts of this problem. The real problem is the salary cap has holes, everyone knows it does, and the clubs agree not to use those holes as it is detremental to all - rugby player salaries are already inflated. There is not the sheer amount of cash floating around that there is in soccer. So even if Saracen's didn't break the rules, they have exploited holes that hurt the entire comp. They agreed that it would hurt the comp when they signed up to it, the salary cap is self imposed. That's why the other clubs are so pissed.

    There should also be player'd ivolved and a collective agreement like NZR, then this wouldn't happen.



  • Eddie Jones has been announced as the new Director of Rugby - as a consultant - of Suntory Sungoliath in Japan.

    https://www.suntory.co.jp/culture-sports/sungoliath/news/2019c/20191114RP.html



  • @Stargazer said in NH club rugby:

    Eddie Jones has been announced as the new Director of Rugby - as a consultant - of Suntory Sungoliath in Japan.

    https://www.suntory.co.jp/culture-sports/sungoliath/news/2019c/20191114RP.html

    fuck he must be rich!



  • Good article on why Premier Rugby, same Top 14, are short term focused idiots



  • A nice tribute from Alby Matthewson's coach at Munster -
    8ede374d-ebdb-4c80-8384-5809e65a12ae-image.png



  • @Daffy-Jaffy I wonder where he'll go next. You'd think he's still good for another pro-contract.


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