NZ justice system 2.0



  • I couldn't find the old thread but I've been following this case , there was some interesting stuff on the old thread about the difference in outcomes between the rich and poor in court .
    Not just another feral beating up a cop, thats the son of the owner of Delegats wines, my favourite bit is the part in bold .

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84151321/it-nearly-destroyed-her-life-richlisters-son-told-after-punching-female-police-officer

    The court heard Delegat "became enraged" at a comment made by a male associate about his girlfriend, and punched a hole in the bar's window.

    That led to an argument, with Delegat punching a University of Otago Campus Watch officer, after he tried to intervene.

    A passing police patrol noticed the disturbance and stopped to help.

    ​Constable Alana Kane, who was in court for the sentencing, suffered a black eye and serious swelling to her face after being punched by Delegat.

    She spent 15 hours at Dunedin Hospital after the incident, was off work and could not drive for two months and still suffered headaches.

    In her victim impact statement, Kane said Delegat showed no remorse and she believed she was "very lucky" to have escaped without more injuries.

    Name suppression was initially sought for fair trial and personal hardship reasons, and was declined on both grounds.

    His Auckland-based lawyer, Mark Ryan, applied for a discharge without conviction but it was declined.

    Ryan argued a conviction would stop Delegat pursuing a Financial Markets Authority career and he would be unable to race in yachting competitions in the United States.

    FFS.



  • Boo-fucking-hoo. Give him the same sentence anyone else without a shitload of money would get.



  • I find this type of situation a difficult topic to discuss as I am similar to the second woman in the video, that there should be a focus on rehabilitation. The denial of name suppression will have an impact on his future and that may be sufficient punishment. The upsetting part of this is the lack of remorse for his actions, I would want NJPD and his family would want to take responsibility for his actions and at least show some contrition.

    But there are many examples of young people without access to the same quality legal representation, would be looking at a custodial sentence, they do not get the same opportunity.

    Another case of affluenza and privilege?!?



  • Effluenza. Little turd...



  • DK I agree with you about rehabilitation. He sounds like a bit of a nutcase and hopefully this is the end of his financial market authorities ambitions, its not likely that he's going to end up on skid row anyway even if his name is out there in the public domain.

    Fingers crossed he tries this shit with a cop when he's yacht racing in America.



  • Yeah - I'd read that article and noted exactly the same sentence as bolded.

    That's just the repercussions that arise from assaulting a police officer (or anyone for that matter). The Americans have a pretty clear policy on the people they want to visit their country - they don't want known fluffybunnies and they use big filters.



  • Claim Delegat got rich person's justice disputed

    By Shawn McAvinue
    8:41 AM Wednesday Sep 14, 2016
    
    If Nikolas Delegat were poorer he would have received a harsher sentence, the Police Association says.
    
    But a Dunedin barrister has rejected the ''outrageous'' claim, saying the sentence matches the offence.
    
    Delegat, 19, the son of a multimillionaire wine magnate, was sentenced in the Dunedin District Court on Monday to 300 hours of community work and a $5000 compensation payment.
    
    The former Otago University student had been drinking heavily in Dunedin in March last year when he became enraged and assaulted Campus Watch staff member David Ogilvie.
    
    **He then kept punching Constable Alana Kane after she had been knocked out**.
    
    New Zealand Police Association president Greg O'Connor said if Delegat had been from the ''other end of the socio-economic scale'', the sentence would have included jail time, or something closer to it.
    
    A ''high-powered lawyer'' could help someone get a lighter sentence, he said.
    
    The sentence had caused ''general disquiet'' among some police officers in Dunedin, especially given the severity of injuries sustained by Const Kane.
    
    However, Judge Kevin Phillips needed to be commended for resisting the ''considerable pressure'' to grant name suppression and discharge without conviction, Mr O'Connor said.
    
    Mr O'Connor hoped Delegat would complete his community work with ''mainstream offenders'' on the same conditions.
    
    He feared, though, that Delegat's legal team would advocate for their client to be given special treatment.
    
    Mr O'Connor said the services of ''good lawyers don't stop at the sentencing''.
    
    A ''short sharp jail sentence'' would have had a bigger impact on someone with a ''sheltered'' background, Mr O'Connor said.
    
    Dunedin barrister Anne Stevens said the claim Delegat had bought justice was ''outrageous''.
    
    She had been a lawyer for 29 years and the sentence was ''entirely consistent'' for the type of offence, committed by someone with no previous convictions and otherwise good character, and who had pleaded guilty.
    
    ''It's nothing to do with his parents' wealth, it's nothing to do with the colour of his skin; it's to do with his culpability and his character.''
    
    The conviction was a ''serious outcome'', Mrs Stevens said.
    
    **''He wants to sail in other parts of the world and it will be a big burden for him.**''
    
    The sentence had nothing to do with Delegat's choice of lawyer, she said.
    
    ''Any number of lawyers in Dunedin would have achieved the same result ... some of them, I dare say, would have got a discharge.''
    
    Acting area commander Otago Coastal Inspector Kelvin Lloyd said he would not comment on the possibility of the police appealing the sentence.
    
    Insp Lloyd said Const Kane was ''very grateful'' for the support and concern from members of the public and she was focusing on her return to work.
    
    It was the second time Const Kane was the victim of an alcohol-fuelled attack by a young man.
    
    In February 2011, she was knocked to the ground by Jamie Trev Cooper-Siggleko, then 22, when trying to arrest him.
    
    Mr Cooper-Siggleko and his 15-year-old brother punched Const Kane in the head repeatedly. Her injuries, as later detailed by a doctor, included a bleeding nose, damaged wrist and apparent loss of consciousness.
    
    Const Kane had been called on by fellow female officer Const Kristyn Adamson for assistance after Const Adamson did a breath test of Mr Cooper-Siggleko during a bail check in Dunedin. He failed, which was in breach of his bail conditions.
    
    He tried to persuade Const Adamson not to arrest him and then he and his brother started abusing her before Const Kane arrived.
    
    **Mr Cooper-Siggleko, sentenced to six years' jail, served three years and five months in prison for the assault and a benefit fraud charge**.
    
    Delegat's lawyer, Auckland barrister Mark Ryan, did not respond to questions yesterday asking if the sentence would be appealed.
    
    In court on Monday, Mr Ryan said his client was willing to undertake community work in conjunction with police and local authorities to address the ''out-of-control drinking culture'' at the University of Otago.
    
    University proctor Dave Scott, when contacted yesterday, said there was a nationwide alcohol problem where large groups of young people congregated.
    
    The university and Campus Watch were trying to address the problem in Dunedin, he said.
    
    ''Thanks to our well-resourced efforts to keep the campus environment safe, we have made good inroads into behavioural problems arising from alcohol abuse around the North Dunedin area in recent years.''
    
    Most of its student population were law-abiding, focused on their studies and not generally known for violence, he said.
    
    In a statement released to the New Zealand Herald yesterday on behalf of the Delegat family, Delegat apologised for the harm he had caused.
    
    ''Nikolas takes full responsibility for his actions that night,'' it says.
    
    ''He attended a restorative justice conference where he expressed his remorse, and he again apologises to the police officer, university security guard and all others concerned.
    
    ''Nikolas was in the first two months of his university study away from home in Dunedin.
    
    ''He made a bad decision in the heat of the moment which caused considerable harm to those affected, which he regrets.''
    
    - Otago Daily Times
    

    I know the other offender clearly had a much worse record but the punishments seem very different. The kid beat on the officer while she was out on the ground, that is pretty bad and the burden he'll carry seems to be much lighter than the rehab that the officer will require for injuries from which she may never totally recover



  • Yeah I read that bolded bit the other day and it made my blood fucken boil. A few of my ex colleagues went all the way and did the "sworn" thing ( ie became cops ). A couple are attractive blonds and I can easily picture them being the targets of all sorts of abuse and also worry that could easily happen to them after all a 50kg female isn't generally gonna fare to well against some pissed up aggressive bloke on Courtney Place.

    Community service for what sounds like a pretty serious assault is an absolute joke especially the argument of that bit in bold. We've all got goals and ambitions, most of us are sensible enough not to jeopardise these by acting like fucken mongrels and assaulting someone who is just trying to do an incredibly tough job.

    You did the crime so live with the full brunt of whatever the NZ justice system throws at you you jumped up little cock.



  • yep, sends the wrong message...you need to be held responsible for your actions, regardless of your upbringing, however we know that isnt how this world works and money talks.

    The privileged get advantages in almost every way, and some still manage to fuck it up.

    Am sure most of us did some dumb shit as kids, but like me am sure most of us grew out of it and knew it was wrong and if we did it as a teen or adult, it could ruin our lives, but that kind of 'dumb shit' (cos thats pretty much what the sentence is showing it as) is on a whole other level.



  • It's like the reparation system. I hit and run your son/daughter/mum/dad but here's $50K so I can get off with a minimal sentence or detention. Can't blame those who have the resources to use it but the system tells people there is a monetary value attached to crimes and their punishment



  • It's an interesting one. The fact that his parents could afford to keep appealing any conviction possibly played a role in the sentencing, but that's life I guess - money = power in today's world.

    But, as dK alludes to, if someone commits assault and is sent to jail - what do we want for them when they are in jail? To be punished, or rehabilitated so that they can become a positive contributing member of society?

    I think the fact that this kids future career plans are sound, in that he will contribute to society, played a role in the sentencing. They don't want to completely ruin his life so that he just becomes a drag on society, likely turning to alcoholism and drug addiction if he feels he can't be successful in anything.

    The judges don't just make shit up on the spot. They operate within the system that is set by the Government, and they have to provide a sound justification for any decision they make. It's a thankless job TBH, not one I'd want to do.



  • I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case



  • @No-Quarter so will this guy have learnt his lesson or was his lesson money talks?



  • My thoughts exactly @aucklandwarlord.

    I have to say, one thing that fucks me off no end, is when a convicted criminal gets off lightly because of the so-called impact on their life. Yes, we've all done stupid minor things when intoxicated because it seemed like a good idea, but beating up a spouse or putting someone in hospital or using a weapon - fuck off about prospects or future employment. The fact that someone can play rugby or has a rich mum and dad is no excuse for violence.

    If you don't want a conviction for a serious assault - don't fucking bash people.



  • @taniwharugby also good sporting prospects helps , one of the two kids involved in this is now playing in Japan . I reckon this one looks a bit suspect too, I can't imagine how his parents are feeling. http://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/80986464/two-teenagers-walked-off-casually-after-stephen-dudley-assault



  • Some people are just scum bags.

    I remember reading an article in the UK about those boys that murdered Jamie Bulger.

    One of the boys was totally remorseful whereas the other, they reckon was a nasty human being and there isn't any rehabilitation for some.



  • @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case

    Yeah, look, I don't really disagree with any of that, and I don't for a minute condone what the little shit did. I was trying to offer another perspective on the whole thing. It's easy to scream "he's white and rich that's why he got off" and while the rich part likely played a part, I don't think it is the defining thing that swayed the judges decision. Our justice system is mostly free of corruption, and judges have to justify their decisions. Without a doubt you could find examples of poor brown kids being thrown a bone by the judge and avoiding conviction - but that type of story wouldn't make the news. These types of decisions are very much a case by case basis.

    I will say that our justice system, while mostly free of corruption, is weak as piss. But that's an issue for the Goverment to look at.



  • @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case

    Well not only the career side of things but god forbid something get in the way of him doing his yachting, if anything screams JAFA and makes the rest of the country look on in scorn it's that.......( apologies to yourself, JK, Virg and any other Auckland ferners of course but I'm sure you get what I mean )

    I knew Moala had assaulted someone some time back but attacking them with a bottle is next level shit, how the fuck did he get off that ? ( obviously another "he might be an AB one day, a conviction would hinder that" case ) As you say it's one thing to push and shove someone in a pub, I'm sure we've all done that countless times but to go several steps further indicates something isn't right.



  • @MN5 said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case

    Well not only the career side of things but god forbid something get in the way of him doing his yachting, if anything screams JAFA and makes the rest of the country look on in scorn it's that.......( apologies to yourself, JK, Virg and any other Auckland ferners of course but I'm sure you get what I mean )

    I knew Moala had assaulted someone some time back but attacking them with a bottle is next level shit, how the fuck did he get off that ? ( obviously another "he might be an AB one day, a conviction would hinder that" case ) As you say it's one thing to push and shove someone in a pub, I'm sure we've all done that countless times but to go several steps further indicates something isn't right.

    Me too. I have a friend from Hamilton who went to jail for similar or less than that (not a broken bottle, he glassed someone in a pubfight), so it doesn't really make sense.



  • I guess the thought is if he comes from money then he's actually got a chance of having the support required to become rehabilitated. It's still absolute bollocks though, I mean if it were a civilian that's pretty bad but a cop? and not to be sexist but a female cop?!. That's an absolute disgusting precedent for those that dedicate their careers to making society a better place to live in.



  • The rich will always have advantages over those less fortunate but this sort of thing really takes the piss. It does nothing to dispel this moron's idea that he is bulletproof behind daddy's millions, and that he can continue to be a carnt safe in the knowledge that he can buy his way out of trouble



  • @No-Quarter Yeah I completely agree that there's no way the judge thought "it'll make it awkward down the yacht club if I throw this guy in the slammer, better let him off lightly"

    But having an expensive lawyer who can argue every legal point and try to bully the prosecution into downgrading charges would almost certainly have an impact. How he only got convicted of common assault and not some sort of injuring with intent charge is beyond me.



  • @MN5 said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    Yeah I read that bolded bit the other day and it made my blood fucken boil. A few of my ex colleagues went all the way and did the "sworn" thing ( ie became cops ). A couple are attractive blonds and I can easily picture them being the targets of all sorts of abuse and also worry that could easily happen to them after all a 50kg female isn't generally gonna fare to well against some pissed up aggressive bloke on Courtney Place.

    My wife is about 50kg and worked frontline for a few years and she (thankfully) never had too many problems. Female cops are normally assaulted by other females because most criminals, except the worst or most desperate, still have a little bit of honour that extends to not bashing female cops. Female cops were also good at talking things down and de-escalating situations. I used to end up in way more brawls when I worked with other guys.

    Speaking of the honour system, a long story, but I was working frontline in about 2009 and me and a female partner got called to a disorder/trespass job in Panmure. It came in as 2 guys arguing with the bouncers of a pub there because they weren't allowed in. It wasn't the crime of the century and we were in the McDonald's drive thru when it came in because we hadn't eaten all night. So as we went to it I was hurriedly trying to finish a big Mac combo.

    When we arrived, it turned out one of the guys had an arrest warrant so he bolted down behind the shops, which are pitch black. I had left my torch in the car and was full of Mcdonalds so i gave up the chase after a few hundred metres and wandered back to see if my partner was okay with the other guy, figuring we'd get a dog to track the fulla I'd lost. As I rounded the corner, I saw the second offender shove/hit my partner and take off. It wasn't a bad assault but she was a bit shocked. I took off after him, thankfully he was kinda fat, and I was kinda gassed plus full of McDonald's so we had a slow motion footchase down Queens Road in Panmure. My partner had called for backup, saying she has been assaulted so suddenly there were a couple of nearby sirens audible which made the guy run down a dead end alleyway to try to get off the main road.

    I got in the alleyway and yelled at him to get on the ground and he was under arrest for assaulting police. Just as I slowed to a walk and the offender put his hands up,this big old white guy who had seen the assault on my partner from the comfort of the pub came tearing past me and punched the offender square in the jaw with one of the cleanest punches I've seen landed and screamed "don't ever hit a woman cop" then proceeded to try to go to town on this guy on the ground. I then had to pull him off, and unluckily for him, one of he biggest guys on our squad turned up, and thinking the big white guy was the main offender spear tackled him and put him in cuffs for his troubles.

    Hilariously, the first offender I lost was hiding behind a rubbish bin about 6 feet away in the same alley, looking petrified about what had just happened to his mate, came out and lay on the ground without being asked.

    I think we ended up having to warn the big white guy for assault, just to cover our asses in court. Bizarrely enough, he had a sizeable criminal history for all sorts of things, but was staunchly pro police and anti violence against women so wasn't gonna let it slide.



  • @MN5 said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case

    Well not only the career side of things but god forbid something get in the way of him doing his yachting, if anything screams JAFA and makes the rest of the country look on in scorn it's that.......( apologies to yourself, JK, Virg and any other Auckland ferners of course but I'm sure you get what I mean )

    I knew Moala had assaulted someone some time back but attacking them with a bottle is next level shit, how the fuck did he get off that ? ( obviously another "he might be an AB one day, a conviction would hinder that" case ) As you say it's one thing to push and shove someone in a pub, I'm sure we've all done that countless times but to go several steps further indicates something isn't right.

    There was a girl in about 2010 (i also think Tavita Li, the rugby player used the same excuse) who successfully got discharged without conviction on a drink driving charge because her lawyer argued that a drink driving conviction would completely scuttle her chances of a career in the Police. The police were furious and just turned her down because she wasn't of good character or some other obscure reason



  • @aucklandwarlord you have the best stories, never leave.

    Can we get a regular segment? Aucklandwarlord's story of the week.



  • @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    @MN5 said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    Yeah I read that bolded bit the other day and it made my blood fucken boil. A few of my ex colleagues went all the way and did the "sworn" thing ( ie became cops ). A couple are attractive blonds and I can easily picture them being the targets of all sorts of abuse and also worry that could easily happen to them after all a 50kg female isn't generally gonna fare to well against some pissed up aggressive bloke on Courtney Place.

    My wife is about 50kg and worked frontline for a few years and she (thankfully) never had too many problems. Female cops are normally assaulted by other females because most criminals, except the worst or most desperate, still have a little bit of honour that extends to not bashing female cops. Female cops were also good at talking things down and de-escalating situations. I used to end up in way more brawls when I worked with other guys.

    Speaking of the honour system, a long story, but I was working frontline in about 2009 and me and a female partner got called to a disorder/trespass job in Panmure. It came in as 2 guys arguing with the bouncers of a pub there because they weren't allowed in. It wasn't the crime of the century and we were in the McDonald's drive thru when it came in because we hadn't eaten all night. So as we went to it I was hurriedly trying to finish a big Mac combo.

    When we arrived, it turned out one of the guys had an arrest warrant so he bolted down behind the shops, which are pitch black. I had left my torch in the car and was full of Mcdonalds so i gave up the chase after a few hundred metres and wandered back to see if my partner was okay with the other guy, figuring we'd get a dog to track the fulla I'd lost. As I rounded the corner, I saw the second offender shove/hit my partner and take off. It wasn't a bad assault but she was a bit shocked. I took off after him, thankfully he was kinda fat, and I was kinda gassed plus full of McDonald's so we had a slow motion footchase down Queens Road in Panmure. My partner had called for backup, saying she has been assaulted so suddenly there were a couple of nearby sirens audible which made the guy run down a dead end alleyway to try to get off the main road.

    I got in the alleyway and yelled at him to get on the ground and he was under arrest for assaulting police. Just as I slowed to a walk and the offender put his hands up,this big old white guy who had seen the assault on my partner from the comfort of the pub came tearing past me and punched the offender square in the jaw with one of the cleanest punches I've seen landed and screamed "don't ever hit a woman cop" then proceeded to try to go to town on this guy on the ground. I then had to pull him off, and unluckily for him, one of he biggest guys on our squad turned up, and thinking the big white guy was the main offender spear tackled him and put him in cuffs for his troubles.

    Hilariously, the first offender I lost was hiding behind a rubbish bin about 6 feet away in the same alley, looking petrified about what had just happened to his mate, came out and lay on the ground without being asked.

    I think we ended up having to warn the big white guy for assault, just to cover our asses in court. Bizarrely enough, he had a sizeable criminal history for all sorts of things, but was staunchly pro police and anti violence against women so wasn't gonna let it slide.

    Awesome yarn dude !

    You're obviously right about the "code of conduct" thing regarding assault on female cops but I'd argue a lot of that is being lost as each generation passes. I remember working directly alongside a Superintendant who'd been in the job for over 40 years and said he would hate to be a beat cop now. Back in "his" day a fight was over the moment someone went down, nowadays it's everyone kicking the guy on the ground while someone else films it.



  • @mariner4life said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    @aucklandwarlord you have the best stories, never leave.

    Can we get a regular segment? Aucklandwarlord's story of the week.

    He has a way with words, I was picturing the whole incident as I was reading it.



  • @aucklandwarlord
    Ha awesome read! Gees you must have an absolute treasure trove of stories to tell. Downside with working in IT is your work anecdotes don't hold a whole lot of attention..especially with the fairer sex.



  • @MN5 said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    @MN5 said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    Yeah I read that bolded bit the other day and it made my blood fucken boil. A few of my ex colleagues went all the way and did the "sworn" thing ( ie became cops ). A couple are attractive blonds and I can easily picture them being the targets of all sorts of abuse and also worry that could easily happen to them after all a 50kg female isn't generally gonna fare to well against some pissed up aggressive bloke on Courtney Place.

    My wife is about 50kg and worked frontline for a few years and she (thankfully) never had too many problems. Female cops are normally assaulted by other females because most criminals, except the worst or most desperate, still have a little bit of honour that extends to not bashing female cops. Female cops were also good at talking things down and de-escalating situations. I used to end up in way more brawls when I worked with other guys.

    Speaking of the honour system, a long story, but I was working frontline in about 2009 and me and a female partner got called to a disorder/trespass job in Panmure. It came in as 2 guys arguing with the bouncers of a pub there because they weren't allowed in. It wasn't the crime of the century and we were in the McDonald's drive thru when it came in because we hadn't eaten all night. So as we went to it I was hurriedly trying to finish a big Mac combo.

    When we arrived, it turned out one of the guys had an arrest warrant so he bolted down behind the shops, which are pitch black. I had left my torch in the car and was full of Mcdonalds so i gave up the chase after a few hundred metres and wandered back to see if my partner was okay with the other guy, figuring we'd get a dog to track the fulla I'd lost. As I rounded the corner, I saw the second offender shove/hit my partner and take off. It wasn't a bad assault but she was a bit shocked. I took off after him, thankfully he was kinda fat, and I was kinda gassed plus full of McDonald's so we had a slow motion footchase down Queens Road in Panmure. My partner had called for backup, saying she has been assaulted so suddenly there were a couple of nearby sirens audible which made the guy run down a dead end alleyway to try to get off the main road.

    I got in the alleyway and yelled at him to get on the ground and he was under arrest for assaulting police. Just as I slowed to a walk and the offender put his hands up,this big old white guy who had seen the assault on my partner from the comfort of the pub came tearing past me and punched the offender square in the jaw with one of the cleanest punches I've seen landed and screamed "don't ever hit a woman cop" then proceeded to try to go to town on this guy on the ground. I then had to pull him off, and unluckily for him, one of he biggest guys on our squad turned up, and thinking the big white guy was the main offender spear tackled him and put him in cuffs for his troubles.

    Hilariously, the first offender I lost was hiding behind a rubbish bin about 6 feet away in the same alley, looking petrified about what had just happened to his mate, came out and lay on the ground without being asked.

    I think we ended up having to warn the big white guy for assault, just to cover our asses in court. Bizarrely enough, he had a sizeable criminal history for all sorts of things, but was staunchly pro police and anti violence against women so wasn't gonna let it slide.

    Awesome yarn dude !

    You're obviously right about the "code of conduct" thing regarding assault on female cops but I'd argue a lot of that is being lost as each generation passes. I remember working directly alongside a Superintendant who'd been in the job for over 40 years and said he would hate to be a beat cop now. Back in "his" day a fight was over the moment someone went down, nowadays it's everyone kicking the guy on the ground while someone else films it.

    Yup, it's the same with the true old school crims. They lament how the world and the criminal underworld has turned out as well. The guys who would happily rob a bank or burgle a business but wouldn't touch residential addresses because that was ripping off a person not a corporation. Those guys were great to deal with as a Detective. They would never tell you anything on record but they were respectful and awesome to sit with and talk about their stories and lives. They were the sorts who would happily beat the shit out of a guy dealing drugs to kids but would never ever touch the cop who turned up to arrest them. To be fair, their stories of what used to happen in the police cells in the 70s and 80s to guys who beat up cops probably went some way towards explaining that..



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  • Looks like the discharge without conviction has been overturned.





  • Interesting read, but in those graphics they should remove repeat offenders or show the first time offenders separately.

    I recall that one they commented on in Northland, and it was rough and think he ended up being wrong person wrong time with the judge wanting to send a message as it had been the 2nd or 3rd public brawl in a short space in that town involving gangs.



  • http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/89706094/tanami-nayler-tried-to-run-for-her-life-before-she-was-killed-by-drunk-nz-driver

    Stole the car, drunk and driving at 152km through a red light in a city to kill someone.

    Total loser!!!

    Whatever is the maximum this fuckwit should get it.



  • How is an Australian case relevant to the topic?



  • Be interested in others thoughts on this, in Wellington the cops have become pretty OTT with their crackdown on drinking - the countdown car park, the sevens, the local race day etc etc. Anyway I think this is a pretty strange approach and it looks like they are trying to make out the licensing laws were partly responsible for this guy killing someone .

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/89698502/freed-king-hit-killer-grenville-mcfarland-blames-the-death-of-tarun-asthana-on-auckland-bars-allnight-opening-hours

    Here's a bit of background on the case, kudos to the guy who threw the punch for speaking to kids about the consequences of violence

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10076350/One-punch-killer-jailed



  • @jegga I feel sorry for McFarland. Imagine giving some fluffybunny who deserves it a smack and it costs you your career and years of your life.



  • @antipodean at first I thought he was one of those roided up thugs that make the headlines from time to time killing some unsuspecting person with one punch . There's obviously a bit more to this case and I think he's genuinely trying to help the cops but I think they are drawing a long bow here.



  • I sympathize with the police in these matters, because stupidity on the turps is so common, but it would be nice if we remembered that there can be a fine line between being careful and being wowsers, and that balance is key.

    In other good news, Moko's killers got nowhere, as the Court of Appeal dismissed their appeals, while also noting that they were lucky to avoid sentences of life imprisonment. That's a good outcome as it gives direction for similar future cases where murder is difficult to prove but manslaughter is an option.

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/90013980/mokos-killers-sentence-appeal-rejected-by-court-of-appeal



  • From memory, the victim in that matter was being a bit of a knob, but not violent or aggressive. Just a bit mouthy. I'm not entirely sure it's ever justified punching some guy out just because he's being a bit lippy. Yes, we all think about doing it, but being a thug just because someone is being cheeky is never really on. You also run the risk that you do them serious injury or kill them.

    The bit that rankled me in that article is "He partially blamed Asthana's death on late night opening hours, and said he had suffered the loss of his naval career, experience financial hardship, "as well as emotional scarring, guilt, depression and anxiety all as a result of my actions". "

    Generally when you go to prison for killing someone you lose your career and therefore experience financial hardship. But at least you're not dead, like the guy you killed is. McFarland looks to be a big boy, and the victim doesn't look very big at all. When you hit someone in the head with that sort of mismatch, you absolutely roll the dice.

    It's also a pretty long bow to draw to say that it's the late night opening hours. There were probably 3000 other people out drinking in the CBD that night as well, and very few of them decided to punch someone out over something so minor.

    I agree with Godder's sentiments regarding the fine balancing act with liqour enforcement. While it is absolutely necessary in some places, the Ellerslie races is a perfect example of where they have gone overkill. Can't BYO anymore because glammed up girls and guys in suits got too drunk, (but didn't really cause any major trouble). Yet still, the fun police decide they're gonna do something about it, even in the absence of any real violence or disorder (I did lock a guy up there once who was too drunk to notice my car was an unmarked CIB car and kicked it when I honked at him to get off the road, leaving a pretty good dent. But that's another story)

    When I was frontline, or worked special events (RWC etc), I was never a fan of locking people up solely for breach of liquor ban etc. I agree that the bans are in place for all the right reasons - not just to stop people taking a heap of cheap piss into town and preloading before going into licenced premises. But also to stop drunk people carrying glass bottles (potential weapons) around town and generally just milling in the street drinking.

    In general, they have been quite good for reducing disorder in hotspots. That said, in my past life, I'd had mates locked up for the relatively minor offence of carrying a half empty bottle of lion red from a taxi to the nearest bin outside a nightclub and it's pretty shithouse and not a good look for the cops in the eye of the average citizen. I used to deal with liquor ban breaches either by making people tip it out, leave the area with it (if they had heaps of booze in a car and I didn't want make them waste it) or else my favourite of telling them that I was just gonna go and write in my notebook and if the alcohol was gone by the time I turned back around that they'd be all good, however they disposed of it. I'd then sit in the car and chuckle at a bunch of 18 year olds trying to knock back beers so they wouldn't get poured out. Obviously used in only the right circumstances where the guys weren't already hammered, and weren't causing problems, but always hilarious.

    My reasoning was that it was far better enforcement than just being a fluffybunny and locking them up and wasting my time and them ending up with a conviction for something stupidly minor. That said, it was a massive attitude test as well. If they decided they wanted to be a cock, then I enforced the law, because chances were that they were gonna be a cock later on and we'd end up dealing with them then.

    Since those times though the balance of enforcement has shifted with liquor ban enforcement and it's now a case of locking people up is only the very last resort, as opposed to where it used to be the first resort, which is absolutely the right move.

    At the end of the day, alcohol does a huge amount of social harm, so enforcement is absolutely necessary, but as Godder mentioned, it's quite a balancing act to do it. A huge percentage of frontline lock ups are alcohol related, but it's also unfair to penalise those who can use it responsibly, just because a minority can't.


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