NZ justice system 2.0



  • I couldn't find the old thread but I've been following this case , there was some interesting stuff on the old thread about the difference in outcomes between the rich and poor in court .
    Not just another feral beating up a cop, thats the son of the owner of Delegats wines, my favourite bit is the part in bold .

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84151321/it-nearly-destroyed-her-life-richlisters-son-told-after-punching-female-police-officer

    The court heard Delegat "became enraged" at a comment made by a male associate about his girlfriend, and punched a hole in the bar's window.

    That led to an argument, with Delegat punching a University of Otago Campus Watch officer, after he tried to intervene.

    A passing police patrol noticed the disturbance and stopped to help.

    ​Constable Alana Kane, who was in court for the sentencing, suffered a black eye and serious swelling to her face after being punched by Delegat.

    She spent 15 hours at Dunedin Hospital after the incident, was off work and could not drive for two months and still suffered headaches.

    In her victim impact statement, Kane said Delegat showed no remorse and she believed she was "very lucky" to have escaped without more injuries.

    Name suppression was initially sought for fair trial and personal hardship reasons, and was declined on both grounds.

    His Auckland-based lawyer, Mark Ryan, applied for a discharge without conviction but it was declined.

    Ryan argued a conviction would stop Delegat pursuing a Financial Markets Authority career and he would be unable to race in yachting competitions in the United States.

    FFS.



  • Boo-fucking-hoo. Give him the same sentence anyone else without a shitload of money would get.



  • I find this type of situation a difficult topic to discuss as I am similar to the second woman in the video, that there should be a focus on rehabilitation. The denial of name suppression will have an impact on his future and that may be sufficient punishment. The upsetting part of this is the lack of remorse for his actions, I would want NJPD and his family would want to take responsibility for his actions and at least show some contrition.

    But there are many examples of young people without access to the same quality legal representation, would be looking at a custodial sentence, they do not get the same opportunity.

    Another case of affluenza and privilege?!?



  • Effluenza. Little turd...



  • DK I agree with you about rehabilitation. He sounds like a bit of a nutcase and hopefully this is the end of his financial market authorities ambitions, its not likely that he's going to end up on skid row anyway even if his name is out there in the public domain.

    Fingers crossed he tries this shit with a cop when he's yacht racing in America.



  • Yeah - I'd read that article and noted exactly the same sentence as bolded.

    That's just the repercussions that arise from assaulting a police officer (or anyone for that matter). The Americans have a pretty clear policy on the people they want to visit their country - they don't want known fluffybunnies and they use big filters.



  • Claim Delegat got rich person's justice disputed

    By Shawn McAvinue
    8:41 AM Wednesday Sep 14, 2016
    
    If Nikolas Delegat were poorer he would have received a harsher sentence, the Police Association says.
    
    But a Dunedin barrister has rejected the ''outrageous'' claim, saying the sentence matches the offence.
    
    Delegat, 19, the son of a multimillionaire wine magnate, was sentenced in the Dunedin District Court on Monday to 300 hours of community work and a $5000 compensation payment.
    
    The former Otago University student had been drinking heavily in Dunedin in March last year when he became enraged and assaulted Campus Watch staff member David Ogilvie.
    
    **He then kept punching Constable Alana Kane after she had been knocked out**.
    
    New Zealand Police Association president Greg O'Connor said if Delegat had been from the ''other end of the socio-economic scale'', the sentence would have included jail time, or something closer to it.
    
    A ''high-powered lawyer'' could help someone get a lighter sentence, he said.
    
    The sentence had caused ''general disquiet'' among some police officers in Dunedin, especially given the severity of injuries sustained by Const Kane.
    
    However, Judge Kevin Phillips needed to be commended for resisting the ''considerable pressure'' to grant name suppression and discharge without conviction, Mr O'Connor said.
    
    Mr O'Connor hoped Delegat would complete his community work with ''mainstream offenders'' on the same conditions.
    
    He feared, though, that Delegat's legal team would advocate for their client to be given special treatment.
    
    Mr O'Connor said the services of ''good lawyers don't stop at the sentencing''.
    
    A ''short sharp jail sentence'' would have had a bigger impact on someone with a ''sheltered'' background, Mr O'Connor said.
    
    Dunedin barrister Anne Stevens said the claim Delegat had bought justice was ''outrageous''.
    
    She had been a lawyer for 29 years and the sentence was ''entirely consistent'' for the type of offence, committed by someone with no previous convictions and otherwise good character, and who had pleaded guilty.
    
    ''It's nothing to do with his parents' wealth, it's nothing to do with the colour of his skin; it's to do with his culpability and his character.''
    
    The conviction was a ''serious outcome'', Mrs Stevens said.
    
    **''He wants to sail in other parts of the world and it will be a big burden for him.**''
    
    The sentence had nothing to do with Delegat's choice of lawyer, she said.
    
    ''Any number of lawyers in Dunedin would have achieved the same result ... some of them, I dare say, would have got a discharge.''
    
    Acting area commander Otago Coastal Inspector Kelvin Lloyd said he would not comment on the possibility of the police appealing the sentence.
    
    Insp Lloyd said Const Kane was ''very grateful'' for the support and concern from members of the public and she was focusing on her return to work.
    
    It was the second time Const Kane was the victim of an alcohol-fuelled attack by a young man.
    
    In February 2011, she was knocked to the ground by Jamie Trev Cooper-Siggleko, then 22, when trying to arrest him.
    
    Mr Cooper-Siggleko and his 15-year-old brother punched Const Kane in the head repeatedly. Her injuries, as later detailed by a doctor, included a bleeding nose, damaged wrist and apparent loss of consciousness.
    
    Const Kane had been called on by fellow female officer Const Kristyn Adamson for assistance after Const Adamson did a breath test of Mr Cooper-Siggleko during a bail check in Dunedin. He failed, which was in breach of his bail conditions.
    
    He tried to persuade Const Adamson not to arrest him and then he and his brother started abusing her before Const Kane arrived.
    
    **Mr Cooper-Siggleko, sentenced to six years' jail, served three years and five months in prison for the assault and a benefit fraud charge**.
    
    Delegat's lawyer, Auckland barrister Mark Ryan, did not respond to questions yesterday asking if the sentence would be appealed.
    
    In court on Monday, Mr Ryan said his client was willing to undertake community work in conjunction with police and local authorities to address the ''out-of-control drinking culture'' at the University of Otago.
    
    University proctor Dave Scott, when contacted yesterday, said there was a nationwide alcohol problem where large groups of young people congregated.
    
    The university and Campus Watch were trying to address the problem in Dunedin, he said.
    
    ''Thanks to our well-resourced efforts to keep the campus environment safe, we have made good inroads into behavioural problems arising from alcohol abuse around the North Dunedin area in recent years.''
    
    Most of its student population were law-abiding, focused on their studies and not generally known for violence, he said.
    
    In a statement released to the New Zealand Herald yesterday on behalf of the Delegat family, Delegat apologised for the harm he had caused.
    
    ''Nikolas takes full responsibility for his actions that night,'' it says.
    
    ''He attended a restorative justice conference where he expressed his remorse, and he again apologises to the police officer, university security guard and all others concerned.
    
    ''Nikolas was in the first two months of his university study away from home in Dunedin.
    
    ''He made a bad decision in the heat of the moment which caused considerable harm to those affected, which he regrets.''
    
    - Otago Daily Times
    

    I know the other offender clearly had a much worse record but the punishments seem very different. The kid beat on the officer while she was out on the ground, that is pretty bad and the burden he'll carry seems to be much lighter than the rehab that the officer will require for injuries from which she may never totally recover



  • Yeah I read that bolded bit the other day and it made my blood fucken boil. A few of my ex colleagues went all the way and did the "sworn" thing ( ie became cops ). A couple are attractive blonds and I can easily picture them being the targets of all sorts of abuse and also worry that could easily happen to them after all a 50kg female isn't generally gonna fare to well against some pissed up aggressive bloke on Courtney Place.

    Community service for what sounds like a pretty serious assault is an absolute joke especially the argument of that bit in bold. We've all got goals and ambitions, most of us are sensible enough not to jeopardise these by acting like fucken mongrels and assaulting someone who is just trying to do an incredibly tough job.

    You did the crime so live with the full brunt of whatever the NZ justice system throws at you you jumped up little cock.



  • yep, sends the wrong message...you need to be held responsible for your actions, regardless of your upbringing, however we know that isnt how this world works and money talks.

    The privileged get advantages in almost every way, and some still manage to fuck it up.

    Am sure most of us did some dumb shit as kids, but like me am sure most of us grew out of it and knew it was wrong and if we did it as a teen or adult, it could ruin our lives, but that kind of 'dumb shit' (cos thats pretty much what the sentence is showing it as) is on a whole other level.



  • It's like the reparation system. I hit and run your son/daughter/mum/dad but here's $50K so I can get off with a minimal sentence or detention. Can't blame those who have the resources to use it but the system tells people there is a monetary value attached to crimes and their punishment



  • It's an interesting one. The fact that his parents could afford to keep appealing any conviction possibly played a role in the sentencing, but that's life I guess - money = power in today's world.

    But, as dK alludes to, if someone commits assault and is sent to jail - what do we want for them when they are in jail? To be punished, or rehabilitated so that they can become a positive contributing member of society?

    I think the fact that this kids future career plans are sound, in that he will contribute to society, played a role in the sentencing. They don't want to completely ruin his life so that he just becomes a drag on society, likely turning to alcoholism and drug addiction if he feels he can't be successful in anything.

    The judges don't just make shit up on the spot. They operate within the system that is set by the Government, and they have to provide a sound justification for any decision they make. It's a thankless job TBH, not one I'd want to do.



  • I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case



  • @No-Quarter so will this guy have learnt his lesson or was his lesson money talks?



  • My thoughts exactly @aucklandwarlord.

    I have to say, one thing that fucks me off no end, is when a convicted criminal gets off lightly because of the so-called impact on their life. Yes, we've all done stupid minor things when intoxicated because it seemed like a good idea, but beating up a spouse or putting someone in hospital or using a weapon - fuck off about prospects or future employment. The fact that someone can play rugby or has a rich mum and dad is no excuse for violence.

    If you don't want a conviction for a serious assault - don't fucking bash people.



  • @taniwharugby also good sporting prospects helps , one of the two kids involved in this is now playing in Japan . I reckon this one looks a bit suspect too, I can't imagine how his parents are feeling. http://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/80986464/two-teenagers-walked-off-casually-after-stephen-dudley-assault



  • Some people are just scum bags.

    I remember reading an article in the UK about those boys that murdered Jamie Bulger.

    One of the boys was totally remorseful whereas the other, they reckon was a nasty human being and there isn't any rehabilitation for some.



  • @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case

    Yeah, look, I don't really disagree with any of that, and I don't for a minute condone what the little shit did. I was trying to offer another perspective on the whole thing. It's easy to scream "he's white and rich that's why he got off" and while the rich part likely played a part, I don't think it is the defining thing that swayed the judges decision. Our justice system is mostly free of corruption, and judges have to justify their decisions. Without a doubt you could find examples of poor brown kids being thrown a bone by the judge and avoiding conviction - but that type of story wouldn't make the news. These types of decisions are very much a case by case basis.

    I will say that our justice system, while mostly free of corruption, is weak as piss. But that's an issue for the Goverment to look at.



  • @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case

    Well not only the career side of things but god forbid something get in the way of him doing his yachting, if anything screams JAFA and makes the rest of the country look on in scorn it's that.......( apologies to yourself, JK, Virg and any other Auckland ferners of course but I'm sure you get what I mean )

    I knew Moala had assaulted someone some time back but attacking them with a bottle is next level shit, how the fuck did he get off that ? ( obviously another "he might be an AB one day, a conviction would hinder that" case ) As you say it's one thing to push and shove someone in a pub, I'm sure we've all done that countless times but to go several steps further indicates something isn't right.



  • @MN5 said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    @aucklandwarlord said in NZ justice system 2.0:

    I think the while "a conviction would stop me from pursuing (insert chosen career path here)" thing is a little bit stupid when it comes to serious crime.

    Fair play when it's something like disorderly behaviour or something minor and dumb. But when you punch a female cop unconscious and then punch her three more times in the head on the ground while shes unconscious, bad luck. That's a serious crime, and had it been a cop convicted of doing it to him the cop would definitely be going straight to jail.

    Just because you have doors open to you that not everyone else does, shouldn't give you a get out of jail free card when it comes to serious offending. I was equally disgusted when George Moala got discharged without conviction for slashing that guys neck with a broken bottle too. With great privilege (such as lucrative career options) Should come great responsibility. The fact his family blamed it on him living away from home at uni is an insult to every other person who has done the same thing and not bashed females after too many beers. That their statement referred to it as a "bad decision" is also an insult. A bad decision would be the first punch, not the three subsequent punches to an unconscious female just doing her job.

    While I agree we should look to rehabilitate offenders, there also has to be a punitive element to the justice system. I've seen poor brown kids go to jail for far less than what this clown did. Unfortunately for them their parents didn't have the money to buy a big-shot lawyer to argue every single legal point of the case

    Well not only the career side of things but god forbid something get in the way of him doing his yachting, if anything screams JAFA and makes the rest of the country look on in scorn it's that.......( apologies to yourself, JK, Virg and any other Auckland ferners of course but I'm sure you get what I mean )

    I knew Moala had assaulted someone some time back but attacking them with a bottle is next level shit, how the fuck did he get off that ? ( obviously another "he might be an AB one day, a conviction would hinder that" case ) As you say it's one thing to push and shove someone in a pub, I'm sure we've all done that countless times but to go several steps further indicates something isn't right.

    Me too. I have a friend from Hamilton who went to jail for similar or less than that (not a broken bottle, he glassed someone in a pubfight), so it doesn't really make sense.



  • I guess the thought is if he comes from money then he's actually got a chance of having the support required to become rehabilitated. It's still absolute bollocks though, I mean if it were a civilian that's pretty bad but a cop? and not to be sexist but a female cop?!. That's an absolute disgusting precedent for those that dedicate their careers to making society a better place to live in.


Log in to reply