Wallabies v Pumas, Perth



  • Wallabies named:

    1. Scott Sio (21 Tests)
    2. Stephen Moore (c) (108 Tests)
    3. Sekope Kepu (69 Tests)
    4. Rob Simmons (63 Tests)
    5. Adam Coleman (3 Tests)
    6. Dean Mumm (49 Tests)
    7. Michael Hooper (57 Tests)
    8. David Pocock (59 Tests)
    9. Will Genia (69 Tests)
    10. Quade Cooper (60 Tests)
    11. Reece Hodge (2 Tests)
    12. Bernard Foley (33 Tests)
    13. Samu Kerevi (4 Tests)
    14. Dane Haylett-Petty (6 Tests)
    15. Israel Folau (44 Tests)
      RESERVES

    (one to be omitted)
    Tatafu Polota-Nau (67 Tests)
    James Slipper (80 Tests)
    Tom Robertson*
    Rory Arnold (3 Tests)
    Lopeti Timani*
    Sean McMahon (10 Tests)
    Nick Phipps (44 Tests)
    Tevita Kuridrani (37 Tests)
    Henry Speight (5 Tests)

    Douglas out. Simmons in.



  • Oh and Speight in, Mitchell out.



  • I hope Mitchell enjoyed his all expenses paid trip home to see the family.

    Pooper still. Simmons back in. Mumm? Moore still there. Shit pack, crap team. At least Timani is in



  • NTA/Barbs - reading between the state-driven crap, what would you say is consensus view from Aussie fans on the Cooper -Foley axis?



  • @MajorRage - depends who you ask. Pretty much anyone who isn't from NSW (and a few who are) seem to be reading it as

    CHEIKA IS A FUCKING FOLEY FANBOI AND THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE AND THE SOONER WE GET (any other player but prefer my favourite) IN THERE WE'LL BEAT EVERYONE!

    From my personal point of view: its only had a short time to bed in. I don't think any of our combinations "work" against the rush defence of the ABs. It worked in parts against the Boks. So I think its trying to recreate the Foley/Beale axis to a degree.

    I think Genia's form is more critical than anything we do at 12 right now. But Foley kicked all his goals and scored the winning try.

    @mariner4life said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    I hope Mitchell enjoyed his all expenses paid trip home to see the family.

    Pooper still. Simmons back in. Mumm? Moore still there. Shit pack, crap team. At least Timani is in

    1. I think Mitchell flew himself back here, but the ARU probably picked up the hotel tabs in camp. He's also missing a stack of club cash right now. So its not all one way traffic, financially.

    2. Timani isn't in yet - split he or McMahon for the bench.



  • Pumas:

    1. Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro
    2. Agustín Creevy (c)
    3. Ramiro Herrera
    4. Javier Ortega Desio
    5. Matías Alemanno
    6. Pablo Matera
    7. Juan Manuel Leguizamon
    8. Facundo Isa
    9. Tomás Cubelli
    10. Nicolás Sánchez
    11. Lucas González Amorosino
    12. Santiago González Iglesias
    13. Matías Moroni
    14. Santiago Cordero
    15. Joaquín Tuculet

    Reserves

    1. Julian Montoya
    2. Lucas Noguera
    3. Enrique Pieretto
    4. Marcos Kremer
    5. Leonardo Senatore
    6. Martín Landajo
    7. Gabriel Ascarate
    8. Matías Orlando

    http://www.uar.com.ar/noticias/noticias.asp?idinfo=4945



  • @MajorRage Yeah bit of a mixed bag, as Nick said.

    Ultimately we are missing our top four inside centres, so this may be the best compromise solution.

    It's not perfect, but worked well enough in the last two tests to think it's worth persisting with until a better option presents itself.



  • I heard an interview with one of the assistant coaches last week on RS in the lead up to the All Black game ,

    And he pretty much admitted they will be up against it this week ( last week ) but will be targeting the Wallabies the week after, who they see as beatable , they have set themselves what he said is a realistic goal of winning at least 2 tests in this years championship



  • And they're halfway there.



  • This should be interesting. While they have a few victories over the Wallabies, the Argies often struggle with the pace the Aussies play at.

    I think the Jaguares experience of playing 5 NZ teams who also play a fast style will help though.

    Could be quite an open game if Pumas continue with the offload game. Certainly expecting a better game than Wallabies-Boks.



  • Weather for Perth the next few days:

    Thu - showers increasing
    Fri - Mostly sunny
    Sat - Mostly sunny

    Max temps in the high teens. Shouldn't be any issues with the surface, and as it starts 1800 hours (2000 AEST) there won' t be any excuses for handling.



  • Scott Fardy really has fallen out of a favour. I thought Mumm was a little better last week. Certainly helped the lineout.

    I suspect we will see Slipper come on a bit earlier this week. His impact has been good despite overall poorish team performances. Solid in the scrum but offers higher workrate at the ruck.



  • Only one specialist lock in the Pumas lineup. This could cost them dearly.



  • Interesting to see Cubelli getting the start, I reckon he's been overtaken by Landajo this year who's been excellent. Up against a few brumbies though...

    Why doesn't Cheika ever just name a 23? Muppet.



  • At the risk of causing an international incident, I thought Genia/Quade was very good in parts last week. Genia once was world's best and Cooper is a world class attacker.

    Foley is decidedly makeshift, but injuries mean that to this casual observer the cupboard is bare.

    I well remember that this is the country that produced the best 12 I've seen, Horan (although Nonu has claims) and one of the most electrifying 13s, Michael O'Connor, and such lesser greats as Herbert and Little, who made the likes of Michael Hawker look top grade. Indeed, that 1977 Aussie School team had one of the most extraordinary collections of talent ever seen -- see above and add Ella brothers and Wally Lewis!!

    Surely there are some unheralded stars lurking in the backwater? N.B. Gym bunnies need not apply.



  • @pakman

    No love for Mortlock and Giteau ?



  • After the 2003 World Cup semi no love at all for Mortlock.



  • I hear ya but him and GIteau were some fucken players.....



  • Haaaa yeah Giteau, some fucken player....who wouldn't make anyones list of top players ever.



  • To be fair Morlock was a massive throrn in our side and I did think about adding to Herbert/Little. Giteau to me more like Hawker. Very good, but looked better than his was because of the talent around him.



  • @pakman said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    To be fair Morlock was a massive throrn in our side and I did think about adding to Herbert/Little. Giteau to me more like Hawker. Very good, but looked better than his was because of the talent around him.

    I liked Mortlock cos he was such a hard running fucker and seemed like a niceish joker when interviewed.



  • @MN5 said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @pakman said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    To be fair Morlock was a massive throrn in our side and I did think about adding to Herbert/Little. Giteau to me more like Hawker. Very good, but looked better than his was because of the talent around him.

    I liked Mortlock cos he was such a hard running fucker and seemed like a niceish joker when interviewed bloke with muscles.

    Fixed.



  • @Bones

    Change the record Abdul, you've been trying to get me with the same lame digs since about 2006



  • Giteau? Ha! That is one bloke who the more he doesn't play the higher he gets rated. What has he ever done to be rated so highly?
    He was a key player for one of the worst eras in Wallaby history. Buggered off overseas and is bought back as some sort of saviour.



  • @pukunui he was a decent 2nd 5, rubbish 1st 5 and probably should've been used more at halfback.

    I can't recall any test vs the ABs where he played that well. I do recall him playing well against NH opponents though.



  • @cgrant said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    Only one specialist lock in the Pumas lineup. This could cost them dearly.

    Against the Wobblies lineout?



  • @MN5 said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @Bones

    Change the record...

    It's like raaaaaiinnnnnn



  • Can't see the Wallabies winning this one if the Pumas play with same style and intent has last week.



  • @Wreck-Diver said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    Can't see the Wallabies winning this one if the Pumas play with same style and intent has last week.

    I think the Wallabies will go into the game feeling superior in the pecking order , and are far less likely to have that deer in the headlights look about them like they do against us .

    I guess im saying I suspect the current Wallabies to be a bit of a downhill type side .



  • @pakman said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:
    Cooper is a world class attacker.

    Not to rehash the whole Cooper thing, but what world class defensive patterns has he had success against? I would think this is a prerequisite to being labelled world class himself?

    Both Cooper and Foley are far from ideal in the 10 slot, I can only hope there are some 10 options that grew up watching Carter or Steyn rather than the dross the Wallabies have been turning out the past 10 years.



  • Not really going to matter if the forwards can't win decent ball, and the halfback can't get it to them quick enough.

    As for "world class defensive patterns" - you mean the ABs? Yeah based on that assumption everyone but the AB flyhalf is shit based on the fact the AB flyhalf never gets to play the ABs. What a conundrum! 🤔

    Look, its easy to take shots from an ebony tower, and you frequently do. But please, justify putting Carter and Steyn in the same bracket, if you're talking about Morne Steyn.



  • Yeah, don't know how Steyn snuck into the equation for world class attacking 10's unless you count hooding high balls and kicking goals as attacking.



  • @NTA

    Oh don't play this "poor us Aussies game". You had Genia as the greatest half going a few short years ago, now Cooper has never gotten decent ball.

    Obviously his implosions and impotence against the ABs are a huge factor into that simply by the large part they play in the Aussie schedule. Cooper has been weighed and measured by the ABs more than most.

    They Boks generally are another decent measuring stick and for the most part and he has been monstered and smothered by them fairly regularly. He has generally performed pretty poorly against the northern teams outside of the June international windows.

    If you show me a Quade Cooper highlight reel it's going to be Super Rugby stuff from half a decade ago and him carving up Italy. If that makes him World Class player (a moniker pakman threw out there) I can only imagine how devastating he would been with World Class winger Caleb Ralph outside him and World Class forwards like Troy Flavell and Todd Blackadder securing quick ball - he might almost have been better than that other World Class first five Peter Grant.

    To eqaute him with World Class Rupeni Caucau would be an insult to the great Fijian.

    Very different prospect feasting on Super Rugby teams with holes in their backline through injury, travel and game plans often concocted in 4days and international defenses. burning Lachie Munro playing on the wing in a Super Rugby semi final and doing cartwheels doesn't means very little in my assessment of how a guy goes at the international game.

    Steyn and Carter are mentioned simply because they only 10s in the past 10 years in the 3N/TRC who were remotely world class. Hell, they were the only ones that could hold down their jersey for any length of time. I guess Sanchez is there now too - we assume Barrett gets there soon. Cruden perhaps eventually could have - but certainly looked out of his depth to begin with, but he will never get the tenure. Very different players and very different players Steyn and DC - but both provided an attacking weapon that gave their team a constructive place to attack from.

    This isn't to say Cooper isn't a half decent hand at international level. He just isn't remotely World Class.



  • @rotated said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @NTA
    Very different prospect feasting on Super Rugby teams with holes in their backline through injury, travel and game plans often concocted in 4days and international defenses. burning Lachie Munro playing on the wing in a Super Rugby semi final and doing cartwheels doesn't means very little in my assessment of how a guy goes at the international game.

    Lachie Munro. Fark, I just had flashbacks. That post should have had a trigger warning.



  • @rotated said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @NTA

    Oh don't play this "poor us Aussies game". You had Genia as the greatest half going a few short years ago, now Cooper has never gotten decent ball.

    Obviously his implosions and impotence against the ABs are a huge factor into that simply by the large part they play in the Aussie schedule. Cooper has been weighed and measured by the ABs more than most.

    They Boks generally are another decent measuring stick and for the most part and he has been monstered and smothered by them fairly regularly. He has generally performed pretty poorly against the northern teams outside of the June international windows.

    If you show me a Quade Cooper highlight reel it's going to be Super Rugby stuff from half a decade ago and him carving up Italy. If that makes him World Class player (a moniker pakman threw out there) I can only imagine how devastating he would been with World Class winger Caleb Ralph outside him and World Class forwards like Troy Flavell and Todd Blackadder securing quick ball - he might almost have been better than that other World Class first five Peter Grant.

    To eqaute him with World Class Rupeni Caucau would be an insult to the great Fijian.

    Very different prospect feasting on Super Rugby teams with holes in their backline through injury, travel and game plans often concocted in 4days and international defenses. burning Lachie Munro playing on the wing in a Super Rugby semi final and doing cartwheels doesn't means very little in my assessment of how a guy goes at the international game.

    Steyn and Carter are mentioned simply because they only 10s in the past 10 years in the 3N/TRC who were remotely world class. Hell, they were the only ones that could hold down their jersey for any length of time. I guess Sanchez is there now too - we assume Barrett gets there soon. Cruden perhaps eventually could have - but certainly looked out of his depth to begin with, but he will never get the tenure. Very different players and very different players Steyn and DC - but both provided an attacking weapon that gave their team a constructive place to attack from.

    This isn't to say Cooper isn't a half decent hand at international level. He just isn't remotely World Class.

    Hey come on, leave Flavell out of this, he should have been one of our best ever. Not his fault he had no filter system between fists, feet and brain.



  • @MN5 said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @rotated said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @NTA

    Oh don't play this "poor us Aussies game". You had Genia as the greatest half going a few short years ago, now Cooper has never gotten decent ball.

    Obviously his implosions and impotence against the ABs are a huge factor into that simply by the large part they play in the Aussie schedule. Cooper has been weighed and measured by the ABs more than most.

    They Boks generally are another decent measuring stick and for the most part and he has been monstered and smothered by them fairly regularly. He has generally performed pretty poorly against the northern teams outside of the June international windows.

    If you show me a Quade Cooper highlight reel it's going to be Super Rugby stuff from half a decade ago and him carving up Italy. If that makes him World Class player (a moniker pakman threw out there) I can only imagine how devastating he would been with World Class winger Caleb Ralph outside him and World Class forwards like Troy Flavell and Todd Blackadder securing quick ball - he might almost have been better than that other World Class first five Peter Grant.

    To eqaute him with World Class Rupeni Caucau would be an insult to the great Fijian.

    Very different prospect feasting on Super Rugby teams with holes in their backline through injury, travel and game plans often concocted in 4days and international defenses. burning Lachie Munro playing on the wing in a Super Rugby semi final and doing cartwheels doesn't means very little in my assessment of how a guy goes at the international game.

    Steyn and Carter are mentioned simply because they only 10s in the past 10 years in the 3N/TRC who were remotely world class. Hell, they were the only ones that could hold down their jersey for any length of time. I guess Sanchez is there now too - we assume Barrett gets there soon. Cruden perhaps eventually could have - but certainly looked out of his depth to begin with, but he will never get the tenure. Very different players and very different players Steyn and DC - but both provided an attacking weapon that gave their team a constructive place to attack from.

    This isn't to say Cooper isn't a half decent hand at international level. He just isn't remotely World Class.

    Hey come one, leave Flavell out of this, he should have been one of our best ever. Not his fault he had no filter system between fists, feet and brain.

    Sorry substitute Flavell for Cribb if you must - I just didn't want to rile up the Cantabs while already dealing with the Aussies.



  • @rotated said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @MN5 said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @rotated said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    @NTA

    Oh don't play this "poor us Aussies game". You had Genia as the greatest half going a few short years ago, now Cooper has never gotten decent ball.

    Obviously his implosions and impotence against the ABs are a huge factor into that simply by the large part they play in the Aussie schedule. Cooper has been weighed and measured by the ABs more than most.

    They Boks generally are another decent measuring stick and for the most part and he has been monstered and smothered by them fairly regularly. He has generally performed pretty poorly against the northern teams outside of the June international windows.

    If you show me a Quade Cooper highlight reel it's going to be Super Rugby stuff from half a decade ago and him carving up Italy. If that makes him World Class player (a moniker pakman threw out there) I can only imagine how devastating he would been with World Class winger Caleb Ralph outside him and World Class forwards like Troy Flavell and Todd Blackadder securing quick ball - he might almost have been better than that other World Class first five Peter Grant.

    To eqaute him with World Class Rupeni Caucau would be an insult to the great Fijian.

    Very different prospect feasting on Super Rugby teams with holes in their backline through injury, travel and game plans often concocted in 4days and international defenses. burning Lachie Munro playing on the wing in a Super Rugby semi final and doing cartwheels doesn't means very little in my assessment of how a guy goes at the international game.

    Steyn and Carter are mentioned simply because they only 10s in the past 10 years in the 3N/TRC who were remotely world class. Hell, they were the only ones that could hold down their jersey for any length of time. I guess Sanchez is there now too - we assume Barrett gets there soon. Cruden perhaps eventually could have - but certainly looked out of his depth to begin with, but he will never get the tenure. Very different players and very different players Steyn and DC - but both provided an attacking weapon that gave their team a constructive place to attack from.

    This isn't to say Cooper isn't a half decent hand at international level. He just isn't remotely World Class.

    Hey come one, leave Flavell out of this, he should have been one of our best ever. Not his fault he had no filter system between fists, feet and brain.

    Sorry substitute Flavell for Cribb if you must - I just didn't want to rile up the Cantabs while already dealing with the Aussies.

    Well they can't quibble about Blackadder, he gave it his all and performed as best he could.



  • @rotated said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    I can only hope there are some 10 options that grew up watching Carter or Steyn rather than the dross the Wallabies have been turning out the past 10 years.

    @rotated said in Wallabies v Pumas, Perth:

    Steyn and Carter are mentioned simply because they only 10s in the past 10 years in the 3N/TRC who were remotely world class.

    So, in effect, while you're busy frothing up, you're saying an Aussie kid should either aspire to be World Class by:

    1. Watching Dan Carter and just be that good. EDIT: no matter that the pack in front of him might be poo

    2. Watch Morne Steyn kick the fuck out of everything, relying on a dominant set piece, and barely ever pass it. You know: just occupy the jumper because the game plan is 10-man rugby and wins a World Cup. Seek to be just better than the other options enough to win Test rugby. Then wait until 5 minutes after every game for rotated to come on here and say something like "boring fucking Aussies might have won, but that flyhalf of theirs is no Dan Carter!"

    Gotcha. 👍

    As for the "poor Aussies" thing - don't put words in my mouth. That was a reference to the fact that none of our options have looked decent in recent times because our forwards have been pretty limp.

    Never stopped you firing off at Aussies or Australia in general though.



  • @NTA

    Are you talking "international class" ( ie good enough to not disgrace himself ) or "World Class" ( DC, Barrett )

    not quite sure.

    You know I don't lower myself to petty Aussie jibes like others might but from the tone of your posts I'm not sure what you're alluding to about Quade.



  • Fuck I don't know either. It is totally up to whichever of @rotated's Aussie-hate personalities gets to the computer first, I suppose.

    Morne Steyn? Fuck's sake...


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