Premiership/Championship.



  • Isn't it about time the Mitre10 Cup had a revamp. The idea of a Premiership/Championship to me is dumb. These teams generally play each other anyway in cross ovrer games, so why not just have the 1 division. Some disagree saying because of the length of the season they won't get to play each other, but they don't have too. Anyone got any thoughts ideas on this?



  • @billsy11 said in Premiership/Championship.:

    Isn't it about time the Mitre10 Cup had a revamp. The idea of a Premiership/Championship to me is dumb. These teams generally play each other anyway in cross ovrer games, so why not just have the 1 division. Some disagree saying because of the length of the season they won't get to play each other, but they don't have too. Anyone got any thoughts ideas on this?

    Sensible compromise for me. NZR don't want to drop teams out of the "first division", but they also don't want to play a full round robin over 13 weeks. The current format allows 14 teams to play reasonable games over a 10 week period.

    I've heard a lot of criticism about the NPC format, but I want to hear an alternative solution that ticks the boxes before I take it seriously.



  • @Damo That's why I put it out there. To me teams like Otago Manawatu Wellington Bay of Plenty and on form you'd say North Harbour would and this year have proven themselves against the so called "big boys". I'm hoping someone may have an idea on doing away with the 2 divisions.



  • Over the years, they have already tried several different formats. This description on Wikipedia seems pretty accurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitre_10_Cup#History

    To me, it's just like all those law trials that annoy the hell out of me. Don't change things too often or you'll lose the interest of spectators. I think the current format works reasonably well, although they might want to do something about the promotion/relegation between the two divisions.

    Like, instead of automatic relegation of the 7th placed Premiership team and automatic promotion of the 1st placed Championship team, let the (6th and) 7th placed Premiership team and 1st (and 2nd) placed teams play for promotion/relegation. I do, however, realise that this would extend the competition, so it's probably not possible.



  • I prefer the automatic promo/relegation...they could have 1 less cross over match and then do away with the 3 games in 8 days that doesnt really help anyone. Also would take away the need for Wednesday and maybe Thursday games. I am guessing here, but these games must surely attract less fans than the Friday/Saturday/Sunday games

    I think this format is probably about as good as we are gonna get, will never go back to the full 14 team format nor can they go back to the 2 division 16 team comp.



  • @billsy11 The format isn't perfect but I like the promotion/relegation. As Wellington have found out recently it's not that easy to gain promotion to the Premiership.



  • I like the format. If you had a full 14 team competition, many teams would already have nothing to play for. Right now only Northland and Southland are basically done for the season but even they still have an outside chance of making top 4 in the Championship.



  • I have never understood playing for points against teams in another competition. It's retarded.



  • @mariner4life not too different to the SuperXX comp though isnt it....just the way it is



  • @mariner4life said in Premiership/Championship.:

    I have never understood playing for points against teams in another competition. It's retarded.

    It's more a hybrid than two separate competitions in this set-up. I think it's justified, because the difference between the teams in the bottom half of the Premiership and the top half of the Championship is not that big. As Manawatu showed yesterday against Canterbury, almost anyone can beat everyone. I don't see how two separate 7-team-competitions would be better.

    I'm fine with it the way it is now, even if it's not without flaws.

    Just some thoughts:

    The consequences of, for example, creating one single 10 team Mitre 10 Cup, by dropping teams from - for example - Southland, Northland, North Harbour and BOP (last year's bottom 4 of the Championship) - would be too big. These regions are too important for the development of players for higher levels (SR). Dropping them to, say, the Heartland Championship would also create problems because that's an amateur competition with not quite the same level of rugby.

    Creating two separate professional or semi-professional competitions of 8 or 10 teams would mean that some teams from the Heartland competition would have to become professional. Are they up to that? How do you finance that? NZ is probably too small for that.



  • @taniwharugby it's pretty different. There is no way BOP can play Canterbury in a final to win everything



  • @mariner4life still teams you play against from another conference, and realisitically, some teams are never gonna make the final so is the same as playing teams from another comp

    I didnt say it was perfect, I think it is the best we can do, just the 2 groups of 7 playing one another for finals isnt long enough, 14 weeks plus finals too long....cross over matches are just bonus points if you can win them



  • @taniwharugby they're not even close to the same. Are we going to have the same arguments we had years ago?

    Mine. 2 distinct divisions of 8 teams each. Playing only in their div. Top 2 from 2nd div promoted every year.

    Ranfurly Shield changes to an FA cup style knockout comp played mid-week, unseeded, including all unions, even heartland.

    NZR can guarantee funding and TV coverage to appease the lesser unions.



  • We'll agree to disagree then, dont recall the argument we had 2 years back (and I have a pretty good memory, so maybe it was with someone else??)

    While this comp isnt perfect I am not sure there are any better options out there, so I dont think I'd of argued that hard on it.

    So where do the extra teams come from?

    Split up Tasman and promote Wanganui or King Country?

    The stadium we had up here wasnt up to scratch for the NZRU, I dont think any of the teams in heartland have the facilities to provide the required level, unless NZRU backtracks on that.

    As for your RS suggestion, er, no!



  • @taniwharugby nah this was years back when we thought teams might get cut.

    Yes promote the best heartland teams. Fuck the stadium requirements.

    The shield has gone stale. Needs a revamp. At least my way has a chance of someone other than Canterbury holding it



  • so about 8 years ago then...I recall arguing plenty back then 🙂



  • @mariner4life said in Premiership/Championship.:

    @taniwharugby nah this was years back when we thought teams might get cut.

    Yes promote the best heartland teams. Fuck the stadium requirements.

    The shield has gone stale. Needs a revamp. At least my way has a chance of someone other than Canterbury holding it

    I think it has been years since Canterbury last held the shield. I don't think the NZRU wants
    teams to be worried about whether or not they get relegated with dire consequences. The crossover games mean that players in Northland still want to play for Northland. Northland players still get the chance to play the big teams and all their games are televised.

    I



  • I don't mind the current structure - it's got far less flaws than the Super rugby structure, which is pretty shit (IMHO of course).

    I think there's a fair likelihood that Canterbury are lining up for a substantial Shield tenure, but that's happened before and Manawatu give everyone else a bit of hope. Canterbury really shouldn't be as dominant as they have been over the past 6-7 years.

    Really needs some of the other big unions to stand up and no surprises I'm especially looking at Auckland and Wellington - with Waikato and Otago being a bit soft in recent years, as well.

    It's not setting the bar high when the main competition to Canterbury is Taranaki and Tasman.



  • Leave it how it is I reckon.

    It ticks some good boxes in that:

    it's still going reasonably profitably (eh Australia?)
    There's games on about 4 days a week
    Two finals keeps broadcasters and sponsors happy
    Upsets do happen
    The talent is spread around pretty well

    like Chris says, you can't bame the comp for the big unions putting out pansies (although Otago have been on the up lately)

    Given the doom and gloom preceding this current incarnation I'd like to see it progress and stay in decent shape



  • @hydro11 said in Premiership/Championship.:

    @mariner4life said in Premiership/Championship.:

    @taniwharugby nah this was years back when we thought teams might get cut.

    Yes promote the best heartland teams. Fuck the stadium requirements.

    The shield has gone stale. Needs a revamp. At least my way has a chance of someone other than Canterbury holding it

    I think it has been years since Canterbury last held the shield. >

    Yes, as I posted in another thread: the last time Canterbury won the Shield was on 9 October 2010, when they took it off Southland. On 23 July 2011, after only 2 successful defences, they lost it again ... back to Southland.