2016 End-of-year internationals



  • Thread for match dates & times, when & where to watch (tv or legal online livestreams), team line-ups, results

    Date Game Location Time(NZ) Where to watch in NZ Result
    Sat 5 Nov USA v Māori All Blacks Chicago 1.00pm Sky Sport 1 (7:00pm replay); 3.30pm replay on Māori TV 7 - 54
    Sat 5 Nov Japan v Argentina Tokyo 6.40pm Rugby Channel ( Sun 6 Nov, 12.30am replay) 20 - 54
    Sun 6 Nov Wales v Australia Cardiff 3:30am Not live. Replay: Rugby Channel 1:00pm 8 - 32
    Sun 6 Nov Barbarians v S Africa London 4:30am Rugby Channel (3:00pm replay) 31 - 31
    Sun 6 Nov Ireland v New Zealand Chicago 9:00am Sky Sport 1 (11:00am Sky Sport 2 replay) 40 - 29
    Wed 9 Nov Czech Rep v Barbarians Prague 7:00am Try this link to Czech CT Sport or this link or this link 0 - 71
    Sat 12 Nov Barbarians v Fiji Belfast 8:30am Rugby Pop-up 1 (replay Sat 4.30pm/10.30pm Rugby Ch) 40 - 7
    Sat 12 Nov Munster v Māori All Blacks Limerick 8:30am Sky Sport 1 (delayed 11am Rugby Ch/ replays 3.30pm Māori TV; 5.30pm Sky Sp 1) 27 - 14
    Sun 13 Nov Georgia v Japan Tbilisi 12.00am Georgia tv online 22 -28
    Sun 13 Nov Italy v New Zealand Rome 3.00am Sky Sport 1 (replay Sun 6.30am/12.00pm Sky Sport 1) 10 - 68
    Sun 13 Nov England v South Africa London 3.30am Rugby Channel (replay Sun 1.30pm/Mon 6.00pm Rugby Ch) 37 - 21
    Sun 13 Nov Scotland v Australia Edinburgh 3.30am Rugby Pop-up 1 (replay Sun 3.30pm/Mon 10.30pm Rugby Ch 22 - 23
    Sun 13 Nov Spain v Tonga Madrid 4.00am Broadcaster: Teledeporte, click "Directos". Top left: try Televisión (channel tdp) or +tdp 13 - 28
    Sun 13 Nov Romania v USA Bucharest 5:00am 23 - 10
    Sun 13 Nov France v Samoa Toulouse 5.45am Rugby Pop-up 1 (replay Mon 12.00am/Tue 8.30am Rugby Ch 52 - 8
    Sun 13 Nov Wales v Argentina Cardiff 6:30am Rugby Pop-up 2 (replay Sun 6.30pm/Mon 12.00pm Rugby Ch) 24 - 20
    Sun 13 Nov Ireland v Canada Dublin 8.15am Rugby Channel (replay Mon 6.00am/Tue 4.00am Rugby Ch 52 - 21
    Thu 17 Nov Harlequins v Māori All Blacks London 8.45am SkySp 2 (delayed 10.30am RCh/ replay 3pm MāoriTv/4.30pm RCh, 9.30pm SkySp 1) 10 - 26
    Sun 20 Nov Georgia v Samoa Tbilisi 12.00am Georgia tv online 20 - 16
    Sun 20 Nov Italy v South Africa Florence 3.00am Rugby Pop-up 2 (replay 6.30pm/Tue 4pm Rugby Ch) 20 - 18
    Sun 20 Nov England v Fiji London 3.30am Rugby Channel (replay Mon 12pm/Tue 10.30am Rugby Ch) 58 - 15
    Sun 20 Nov Wales v Japan Cardiff 3.30am Rugby Pop-up 1 (replay Mon 6pm/Tue 2pm Rugby Ch) 33 - 30
    Sun 20 Nov Romania v Canada Bucharest 5.00am 21 - 16
    Sun 20 Nov Tonga v USA San Sebastián 5.00am Rugby Pop-up 2 (replay Mon 6pm Rugby Ch) 20 - 17
    Sun 20 Nov Scotland v Argentina Edinburgh 6.00am Rugby Pop-up 1 (replay 12.00am/Tue 6.30pm Rugby Ch) 19 - 16
    Sun 20 Nov Ireland v New Zealand Dublin 6.30am Sky Sport 1 (replay 10.30am Sky Sport 4/11am Rugby Ch/9.15pm Sky Sport 1) 9 - 21
    Sun 20 Nov France v Australia Saint-Denis 9.00am Rugby Channel (replay Sun 3pm/Mon 8.15am/Tue 11.30pm Rugby Ch) 23 - 25
    Fri 25 Nov French Barbarians v Australia Bordeaux 8.45am Online: via ARU or Chaîne L'Equipe. Use geo-unblocker/change VPN if geo-blocked.
    Sat 26 Nov Samoa v Canada Grenoble 8.00am Online: WR website or YouTube. Use geo-unblocker/change VPN if geo-blocked.
    Sun 27 Nov Italy v Tonga Padua 3.00am Rugby Pop-up 1 (replay Sun 8.30am/Mon 2.30pm/Tue 11.30pm Rugby Ch)
    Sun 27 Nov Fiji v Japan Vannes 3.10am
    Sun 27 Nov England v Argentina London 3.30am Rugby Channel (replay Sun 3.30pm/Tue 5.30pm/Wed 12.00pm Rugby Ch)
    Sun 27 Nov Scotland v Georgia Kilmarnock 3.30am Rugby Pop-up 2 (replay Sun 11.00pm/Mon 12.30pm/Wed 9.00am Rugby Ch)
    Sun 27 Nov Ireland v Australia Dublin 6.30am Rugby Pop-up 2 (replay Sun 6.00pm/Mon 11.30pm/Fri 10.00am Rugby Ch)
    Sun 27 Nov Wales v South Africa Cardiff 6.30am Rugby Pop-up 1 (replay Sun 1.30pm/Mon 9.30pm/Wed 11.30pm Rugby Ch)
    Sun 27 Nov France v New Zealand Saint-Denis 9.00am SkySp 1 (delayed 10.30am RC /replay 1.30pm SkySp 3/9.15pm SkySp2/8pm RC)
    Sun 4 Dec England v Australia London 3.30am Rugby Channel (replay Sun 1am/Mon 10pm/Tue 12.30pm/Wed 8am Rugby Ch)

    Black Ferns EOY tour:

    Date Game Location Time(NZ) Where to watch in NZ Result
    Sun 20 Nov England v New Zealand London 1.00am Livestream:
    or on FB
    20 - 25
    Thu 24 Nov Canada v New Zealand Dublin 2.00am Livestream:
    10 - 20
    Mon 28 Nov Ireland v New Zealand Dublin 3:00am Livestream:
    8 - 38

    In Australia:

    Scotland v Wallabies: BeIN 3 (LIVE) 1.30am AEST, replays 9.30am, 3.30pm
    England v South Africa: BeIN 1 (LIVE) 1.30am AEST, replay 7.00pm
    France v Samoa: BeIN 1 (LIVE) 3.40am AEST, replay 9.30pm
    Wales v Argentina: BeIN 3 (LIVE) 4.30am AEST, replay 11.30am, 6.00pm
    Ireland v Canada: BeIN 3 (LIVE) K/o 6.15am, tv guide says 6.25am AEST, replays 1.30pm, 10.30pm

    England v Fiji: BeIN 1 (LIVE) Sun 20/11: 1.25am AEST, replay 1.30pm, Tue 22/11: 8.00am
    Wales v Japan: BeIN 3 (LIVE) Sun 20/11: 1.30am AEST, replay 11.40am (? only 1 hour in tv guide), Tue 22/11: 10.30am
    Scotland v Argentina: BeIN 1 (LIVE) Sun 20/11: 3.55am AEST, replay 3.30pm, Tue 22/11: 10.00am
    Ireland v All Blacks: BeIN 3 (LIVE) Sun 20/11: 4.30am AEST, replay 9.45am, 7.00pm, Tue 22/11: 7.00pm
    France v Wallabies: BeIN 3 (LIVE) Sun 20/11: 7.00am AEST, replay 4.00pm, 9.30pm, Tue 22/11: 9.30pm

    Fiji v Japan: Eurosport (LIVE) Sun 27/11: 1.00am AEST, replay 2.30pm, Tue 10.30am, Tue 10.30pm
    England v Argentina: BeIN 1 (LIVE) Sun 27/11 1.25am AEST, replay 1.30pm, Wed 1.30pm
    Scotland v Georgia: BeIN 3 (LIVE) Sun 27/11 1.25am AEST, replay 11.30am, Tue 9.30am
    Wales v South Africa: BeIN 1 (LIVE) Sun 27/11 4.25am AEST, replay 3.30pm, Tue 11.30am
    Ireland v Wallabies: BeIN 3 (LIVE) Sun 27/11, 4.30am AEST, replay 9.30am, 7.00pm, Tue 7.00pm
    France v All Blacks: BeIN 3 (LIVE) Sun 27/11, 7.00am AEST, replay 4.00pm, 9.30pm, Tue 9.30pm

    England v Australia: BeIN 3 (LIVE) Sun 4/12, 1.30am AEST, replay 9.00am, 4.30pm, 9.30pm



  • EOYT Match officials

    Date Game Referee AR1 AR2 TMO
    Sat 5 Nov USA v Māori All Blacks Matthew Carley (ENG) local local Rowan Kitt (ENG)
    Sat 5 Nov Barbarians v S Africa Mike Fraser (NZL) Paul Williams (NZL) Shuhei Kubo (JAP) Graham Hughes (ENG)
    Sun 6 Nov Ireland v New Zealand Mathieu Raynal (FFR) Luke Pearce (RFU) Ben Whitehouse (WRU) Rowan Kitt (RFU)
    Wed 9 Nov Czech Rep v Barbarians
    Sat 12 Nov Barbarians v Fiji Nick Briant (NZL) George Clancy (IRE) David Wilkinson (IRE) Neil Paterson (SCO)
    Sat 12 Nov Munster v Māori ABs Craig Maxwell-Keys (ENG) local local
    Sun 13 Nov Italy v New Zealand Nigel Owens (WRU) Alex Ruiz (FFR) Dudley Phillips (IRFU) Eric Gauzins (FFR)
    Thu 17 Nov Harlequins v Māori ABs Andrew Brace (ENG) local local
    Sun 20 Nov Ireland v New Zealand Jaco Peyper (SARU) Mathieu Raynal (FFR) Ian Davies(WRU) Jon Mason (WRU)
    Sun 27 Nov France v New Zealand Wayne Barnes (RFU) Federico Anselmi (UAR) Dudley Phillips (IRFU) Rowan Kitt (RFU)

    http://www.worldrugby.org/news/196910



  • Italian EOY squad (30 players):

    Props
    Pietro CECCARELLI (Zebre Rugby, 4 caps)
    Lorenzo CITTADINI (Aviron Bayonnais, 50 caps)
    Simone FERRARI (Benetton Treviso, debutant)
    Andrea LOVOTTI (Zebre Rugby, 8 caps)*
    Sami PANICO (Patarò Calvisano, 3 caps)*

    Hookers
    Ornel GEGA (Benetton Treviso, 5 caps)
    Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Stade Toulousain, 81 caps)

    Locks
    George Fabio BIAGI (Zebre Rugby, 11 caps)
    Joshua FURNO (Zebre Rugby, 36 caps)*
    Marco FUSER (Benetton Treviso, 13 caps)*
    Quintin GELDENHUYS (Zebre Rugby, 66 caps)

    Flankers/No 8
    Simone FAVARO (Glasgow Warriors, 30 caps)*
    Maxime Mata MBANDA’ (Zebre Rugby, 2 caps)*
    Francesco MINTO (Benetton Treviso, 28 caps)
    Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 119 caps)
    Andries VAN SCHALKWYK (Zebre Rugby, 5 caps)
    Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Treviso, 99 caps)

    Halfbacks
    Giorgio BRONZINI (Benetton Treviso, debutant)
    Edoardo GORI (Benetton Treviso, 53 caps)*
    Marcello VIOLI (Zebre Rugby, 2 caps)*

    First-five eights
    Tommaso ALLAN (Benetton Treviso, 24 caps)
    Carlo CANNA (Zebre Rugby, 12 caps)

    Midfielders/wings/fullbacks
    Tommaso BENVENUTI (Benetton Treviso, 34 caps)*
    Tommaso BONI (Zebre Rugby, 1 cap)*
    Andrea BUONDONNO (Benetton Treviso, debutant)
    Michele CAMPAGNARO (Exeter Chiefs, 25 caps)*
    Angelo ESPOSITO (Benetton Treviso, 7 caps)*
    Luke MCLEAN (Benetton Treviso, 81 caps)
    Edoardo PADOVANI (Zebre Rugby, 3 caps)*
    Leonardo SARTO (Glasgow Warriors, 30 caps)*

    *Former member of the Italian Rugby Union academy “Ivan Francescato” of Tirrenia.

    More info (with a bit of help from Google Translate):

    http://www.federugby.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9921:nazionale-per-i-test-di-novembre-tornano-parisse-ghiraldini-e-zanni&catid=252:slide&Itemid=811



  • Does Sergio Parisse have a chance of overtaking Richie McCaw with 150 caps? How old is he? If he plays through to the next RWC he'll get to the mark easy.



  • @Wurzel He's 33.



  • @Wurzel said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    Does Sergio Parisse have a chance of overtaking Richie McCaw with 150 caps? How old is he? If he plays through to the next RWC he'll get to the mark easy.

    Yeah, when Richie went there was a thread on this, I think he'll do it at a canter.

    And I've got no problem with that, he's a superb player & has carried Italy for 10 years. Massively under-rated down south. He would have got 100 caps as an AB - admitedly mostly off the bench & covering Kaino when off shore & Read when injured, but still...



  • @gollum

    Underrated ? ? ? ? He got nominated for player of the year for fucken years on end despite not exactly leading his pretty shit team to any sort of tangible rewards. If anything he's quite the opposite.

    I shouldn't cast too many aspersions given Stephen Bates and Daniel Braid got caps but 100 caps for the ABs ? ? ? ? Farrrrrrrrkkkkkk offfffffff........



  • He's an excellent player and gets bagged a fuck of a lot on here. Put it this way:
    6. Fardy
    7. Pocock
    8. Parisse

    Would shit all over:
    6. Fardy
    7. Hooper
    8. Pocock



  • always hard to judge stand-out individuals in shit teams - it's not like there is a loose forward alive that could have led italy to success given the other players in the side.
    even more so in some positions - you could be a super powerful scrummaging hooker, put every dart on the money, a rampaging ball runner and a clean-out machine and still look like nothing special if the rest of your team is shit.

    that georgian godzilla chap, the namibian with the many broken noses and parisse would be an interesting trio to see in action - much rather see that sort of best of the minor nations team than the north vs south on the other thread.



  • @reprobate Yeah, as a leader and his effectiveness as a player, I'd probably align Parisse with Creevy. Creevy is fucking ace, he can't do it all on his own though (he just plays in a better side).



  • @MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @gollum

    Underrated ? ? ? ? He got nominated for player of the year for fucken years on end despite not exactly leading his pretty shit team to any sort of tangible rewards. If anything he's quite the opposite.

    Under-rated DOWN SOUTH, up north he's viewed as one of the finest players of his generation, down in NZ he's seen as the 5th Whitelock brother

    As for leading his team to tangible reward.. its kind of a 15 man game... by that standard Jonathan Davis, Gavin Hastings & Pat Lam were all shithouse too



  • @Bones i rate parisse, but creevy even more so. as unbelievably good as coles has become - often a standout in arguably the greatest AB team - you can see situations where creevy's extra strength and work at the breakdown would be an improvement. a similarly brutal player to bismarck when he was playing at his very best, but more skilful.



  • @reprobate said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @Bones i rate parisse, but creevy even more so. as unbelievably good as coles has become - often a standout in arguably the greatest AB team - you can see situations where creevy's extra strength and work at the breakdown would be an improvement. a similarly brutal player to bismarck when he was playing at his very best, but more skilful.

    Yeah, Creevy for 50 minutes then Coles subbing on to run wild would be brutal... A bit like an elevated version of Anton Oliver doing it for 50 mins & then Mealamu subbing on & running about like an enraged midget for 30 minutes as we had a few years back



  • Why would it be better? What's going to improve? Our scrum? Our lineout? It's not like our forwards lose the physical exchanges.

    Then think about what we lose in attack. I think Creevey would be a step back, or would change the way we play.

    I've seen that a bit recently "Creevey is the better hooker because of the "tight stuff"" which I think is bullshit living in the past thinking. Coles is an excellent set piece hooker with incredible attacking gifts unmatched by any other hooker. Why by rump steak when fillet is on offer?



  • Coles is excellent at his core roles, the added bonus of being very good at pretty much averything els ehe is asked to do and with a running game that is unrivalled at International level, I see no upside to selecting Creevy over him.

    Creevy is an outstanding player, but I'd take Coles over him.



  • @gollum said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @gollum

    Underrated ? ? ? ? He got nominated for player of the year for fucken years on end despite not exactly leading his pretty shit team to any sort of tangible rewards. If anything he's quite the opposite.

    Under-rated DOWN SOUTH, up north he's viewed as one of the finest players of his generation, down in NZ he's seen as the 5th Whitelock brother

    As for leading his team to tangible reward.. its kind of a 15 man game... by that standard Jonathan Davis, Gavin Hastings & Pat Lam were all shithouse too

    Big Gav beat the ABs two times more than Parisse ever did ( and ever will ) albeit with the Lions and World 15.

    Parisse is like BOD was, obviously good but lesser players make him look heaps better. BOD probably had 5-6 oposition midfielders playing in his era as good or arguably better than he was.



  • BOD had two seasons IMO where there was no doubt he was the best centre in rugby. For the rest of them he varied between Test standard and very good.

    Parisse on the other hand carries Italy. I think he'd have been genuinely brilliant if he had the benefit of New Zealand coaching.



  • @reprobate said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    always hard to judge stand-out individuals in shit teams - it's not like there is a loose forward alive that could have led italy to success given the other players in the side.
    even more so in some positions - you could be a super powerful scrummaging hooker, put every dart on the money, a rampaging ball runner and a clean-out machine and still look like nothing special if the rest of your team is shit.

    that georgian godzilla chap, the namibian with the many broken noses and parisse would be an interesting trio to see in action - much rather see that sort of best of the minor nations team than the north vs south on the other thread.

    Keith Wood was bloody good in a team that was often going backwards. As for the other two you mention are they genuinely good players or just "cult hero" types ? Not having watched much of Namibia or Georgia I'm not the best person to comment.



  • You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?

    He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.



  • @Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?

    He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.

    Standard MN5 bulshit
    "I don't watch any rugby, but still find time to critisise players I've never seen on a forum dedicated to the sport"

    Parisse is awesome, a phenomenal athlete who would definitely have been a long term AB in my opinion



  • While he's undoubtedly a very good player (very very good) would he have made a heap of teams? Read is better. And we haven't carried a 2nd out-and-out 8 in the squad all that regularly. Is he a good enough 6/7 to make the bench (seeing as Read has rarely been unavailable)?



  • @mariner4life said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    While he's undoubtedly a very good player (very very good) would he have made a heap of teams? Read is better. And we haven't carried a 2nd out-and-out 8 in the squad all that regularly. Is he a good enough 6/7 to make the bench (seeing as Read has rarely been unavailable)?

    He's older than Read. He would have been battling Rodney nad hence been picked earlier than Read.



  • @antipodean as a placeholder?



  • @antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @mariner4life said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    While he's undoubtedly a very good player (very very good) would he have made a heap of teams? Read is better. And we haven't carried a 2nd out-and-out 8 in the squad all that regularly. Is he a good enough 6/7 to make the bench (seeing as Read has rarely been unavailable)?

    He's older than Read. He would have been battling Rodney nad hence been picked earlier than Read.

    Back then, most of our players left for overseas if the got stuck behind someone.



  • @mariner4life I'd easily pick him ahead of Messam, Luatua, Dixon, Squire...just of the last few years. While else has there been?



  • @Bones that's not 100 tests though



  • @mariner4life I'm not sure what that means?



  • @Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?

    He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.

    Now come on, if Jeremy Thrush can make the ABs then Richie Gray would have walked into the team. Must be fun having time to watch lots of Georgian and Namibian games.

    If Parisse is that good then the other 14 Italians must be fucken horrific players.

    @SammyC I don't go out of my way to watch Italy but to me the proof is in the ( lack of ) results. Repeated nominations for player of the year in the northern hemisphere doesn't exactly indicate he's underrated. How many times has Italy made it out of the group stages in the WC while he's been playing ?



  • @MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    Keith Wood was bloody good in a team that was often going backwards. As for the other two you mention are they genuinely good players or just "cult hero" types ? Not having watched much of Namibia or Georgia I'm not the best person to comment.

    agree wood was a standout in a team that was only reasonable - but ireland is not italy, and certainly not georgia or namibia.
    gorgodza was voted best foreign player in france a few years back, and burger was saracens player of the year when they won the premiership a few years ago too; they're good players.
    on top of that i guess it does always make me warm to a player when you see them absolutely hoeing in and laying waste to everyone they can (and themselves in the process) in games which are a total lost cause because their team is hopelessly outmatched. it's that go down fighting sort of attitude - made me change my mind about shalk burger too that. initially thought: very good player, bit dirty, whatever - but in that real rough patch the boks had he just lifted and lifted game after game, loss after loss - it was bloody heroic, and he's now an all-time great bok in my eyes.



  • @Bones well the claim has been made he would play a heap of tests (100 was mentioned) but filling in for those guys you mention won't get you many.

    While he's a better player than Messam there's no guarantee he would be picked as Kaino's replacement given the significant differences in how they play.



  • @MN5 Yeah, I don't think I can talk about this with someone showing this much idiocy. Gray is tall, that's about it. Does fuck all else, nowhere near the workrate of Thrush. I guess it goes to show how shit a player Caucau was, that Fiji never won the world cup with him there. Your knowledge sucks bro and you're showing it.

    @mariner4life I didn't make that claim?



  • @Bones dude group chat!



  • @Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @MN5 Yeah, I don't think I can talk about this with someone showing this much idiocy. Gray is tall, that's about it. Does fuck all else, nowhere near the workrate of Thrush. I guess it goes to show how shit a player Caucau was, that Fiji never won the world cup with him there. Your knowledge sucks bro and you're showing it.

    @mariner4life I didn't make that claim?

    I thought the "walked into the team" bit would've given away the sarcasm ? Stop picking on Scotland, I'm not dissing the bourne or even the middle east.

    Parisse has played in a heap more WCs than Caucau who was pretty much one of the stars of the tournament in the one he played in. I'm saying he wouldn't have played 100 tests for the ABs, if you can find a post where I'm claiming he's shit then show me, otherwise stop with the niggly shit.



  • @MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?

    He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.

    Now come on, if Jeremy Thrush can make the ABs then Richie Gray would have walked into the team. Must be fun having time to watch lots of Georgian and Namibian games.

    If Parisse is that good then the other 14 Italians must be fucken horrific players.

    @SammyC I don't go out of my way to watch Italy but to me the proof is in the ( lack of ) results. Repeated nominations for player of the year in the northern hemisphere doesn't exactly indicate he's underrated. How many times has Italy made it out of the group stages in the WC while he's been playing ?

    He doesn't play every position. The Economist did a piece on why Italy underachieve and it comes down to a lack of a quality first five-eighth.



  • @antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?

    He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.

    Now come on, if Jeremy Thrush can make the ABs then Richie Gray would have walked into the team. Must be fun having time to watch lots of Georgian and Namibian games.

    If Parisse is that good then the other 14 Italians must be fucken horrific players.

    @SammyC I don't go out of my way to watch Italy but to me the proof is in the ( lack of ) results. Repeated nominations for player of the year in the northern hemisphere doesn't exactly indicate he's underrated. How many times has Italy made it out of the group stages in the WC while he's been playing ?

    He doesn't play every position. The Economist did a piece on why Italy underachieve and it comes down to a lack of a quality first five-eighth.

    The Economist is the guru for international rugby performance now? 😉

    Anyway, Parisse is an awesome player but for much of the past 6 or 7 years one or other of the guys he would have been competing against (Read and Kaino) has been the best player in the ABs.

    If He was already in the ABs before their arrival could have held them out to get to 100 test? No idea.



  • @Nepia no fucking chance



  • @antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    BOD had two seasons IMO where there was no doubt he was the best centre in rugby.

    For me between Mortlock, Umaga, O'Driscoll and for earlier periods during their era Robbie Fleck - none truly put themselves head and shoulders above the others. BOD certainly had the Irish and BIL hype machine behind him though.

    It's one of the reasons I don't rate Umaga that highly when it comes to all-time great ABs.



  • @Nepia said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @MN5 said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @Bones said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    You've summed it up in your last sentence. You watch fuck all rugby and claim to know just how good Parisse is and where he sits in the echelon of players?

    He's nothing like bod. No one is saying he's the best. But he's not crap, he's very, very good. If he was available to NZ he'd be in every squad - you can't say that about too many overseas players...there aren't any in the Scotland team for example.

    Now come on, if Jeremy Thrush can make the ABs then Richie Gray would have walked into the team. Must be fun having time to watch lots of Georgian and Namibian games.

    If Parisse is that good then the other 14 Italians must be fucken horrific players.

    @SammyC I don't go out of my way to watch Italy but to me the proof is in the ( lack of ) results. Repeated nominations for player of the year in the northern hemisphere doesn't exactly indicate he's underrated. How many times has Italy made it out of the group stages in the WC while he's been playing ?

    He doesn't play every position. The Economist did a piece on why Italy underachieve and it comes down to a lack of a quality first five-eighth.

    The Economist is the guru for international rugby performance now? 😉

    That's the beauty of statistical analysis.



  • @rotated said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    @antipodean said in 2016 End-of-year internationals:

    BOD had two seasons IMO where there was no doubt he was the best centre in rugby.

    For me between Mortlock, Umaga, O'Driscoll and for earlier periods during their era Robbie Fleck - none truly put themselves head and shoulders above the others. BOD certainly had the Irish and BIL hype machine behind him though.

    It's one of the reasons I don't rate Umaga that highly when it comes to all-time great ABs.

    Tana was an excellent player, and was an inspirational captain at a time when we needed one. But Ma'a Nonu had the far superior career in the final analysis and was IMHO a more influential player on the field



  • Imagine if Parisse pulled a hamstring today and missed the 2016 November internationals...all this awesome discussion would be temporarily in vain.

    Parisse is Argentinean born to Italian parents (but seemingly has always considered himself Italian) . Perhaps a better hypothetical question is: would he keep Facundo Isa out of Los Pumas?


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