Black Caps v Pakistan



  • Popped down to Hagley oval last night for a look ahead of the first test in 8 days time.

    It's been one of the wettest springs I can remember, but the groundsman still had the Sprinklers going hard.

    This photo is the actual test match pitch. Looks like it may seam a little!

    0_1478642262898_Hagley.jpg



  • Bat first



  • Looks more like a bowling rink (albeit a wooly one) than a cricket pitch. That is a NZ medium fast bowler's wet dream



  • @SammyC I'd get down there fast Sam, the game could be all over in 3 days!!



  • There's obviously been some specific instructions from NZ Cricket.

    It's rained a lot recently and predicted to rain every day leading up to the game.

    But.... Just to be sure, we'll keep the sprinklers on 🙂

    0_1478642726105_Sprinklers.jpg



  • Love it @SammyC thanks for the pictures. Bring on those green seamers! Lessons learnt from the Aus tour last year hopefully.. 🙂



  • It helps if we win the toss



  • But we'll lose the toss. It is written.

    8 days out. Sand based fast draining modem surfaces .....

    Although we have produced some seamers last few years, and lost the toss each time.

    Produce an even but reasonably sporting pitch, hope pakistan are underdone. Because we aren't very good anymore.



  • They will have to keep watering for the next few days too I imagine. 8 days of decent weather down your way with the nor wester will dry that out very quickly



  • Here's the dates for the tests vs Pakistan for those like me that only browse the Fern for sporting updates.

    17 NOV
    BLACKCAPS v Pakistan
    11:00am–Hagley Oval, Christchurch
    Test Match – ANZ International Series v Pakistan

    25 NOV
    BLACKCAPS v Pakistan
    11:00am–Seddon Park, Hamilton
    Test Match – ANZ International Series v Pakistan

    Then we are off to Aus on the 4th December for the Chappell-Hadlee Series, then back home for Bangladesh, Australia and South Africa. Pretty solid lineup for the summer.

    http://www.blackcaps.co.nz/schedules/fixtures/international/blackcaps



  • @Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    They will have to keep watering for the next few days too I imagine. 8 days of decent weather down your way with the nor wester will dry that out very quickly

    No norwesters in the forecast mate, we've hardly had one all spring in fact.



  • My folks farm down your way and said it's been dry as dry up until about a month ago. (They are near Rangiora though)



  • @Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    My folks farm down your way and said it's been dry as dry up until about a month ago. (They are near Rangiora though)

    Hence why I made reference to wet "spring"

    I work in the Ski Industry and you are correct, it was a very dry winter (bad for business). But the last month or so has been unseasonably wet. Met Service forecast says this is going to continue in the days leading up to the test match.



  • @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    Here's the dates for the tests vs Pakistan for those like me that only browse the Fern for sporting updates.

    17 NOV
    BLACKCAPS v Pakistan
    11:00am–Hagley Oval, Christchurch
    Test Match – ANZ International Series v Pakistan

    25 NOV
    BLACKCAPS v Pakistan
    11:00am–Seddon Park, Hamilton
    Test Match – ANZ International Series v Pakistan

    Then we are off to Aus on the 4th December for the Chappell-Hadlee Series, then back home for Bangladesh, Australia and South Africa. Pretty solid lineup for the summer.

    http://www.blackcaps.co.nz/schedules/fixtures/international/blackcaps

    I do love that they do tests at proper test venues and not Eden park or cake tin.



  • We have a crowded cricket summer, more so than I can ever remember. Test matches in November? The Tron has been extremely wet all spring too.



  • I've been pretty impressed with Pakistan over the past couple of years. Yes there's still some of that trademark inconsistency but they've won a decent number of test matches including good series against England and SL. The performance at the Oval being 2-1 down in the series was impressive.

    They seem to have a good mix of youth and old heads. Younis just keeps doing his thing and I've been impressed with Shah.

    Going to be a tough series I reckon.



  • @ACT-Crusader said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    I've been pretty impressed with Pakistan over the past couple of years. Yes there's still some of that trademark inconsistency but they've won a decent number of test matches including good series against England and SL. The performance at the Oval being 2-1 down in the series was impressive.

    They seem to have a good mix of youth and old heads. Younis just keeps doing his thing and I've been impressed with Shah.

    Going to be a tough series I reckon.

    Agree with all this, they've got the bowling attack to take advantage of a seaming pitch too.

    Amir is a rare talent



  • We've got uncertainty in our lineup and it appears at least from the outside that we don't know what to do with our middle order. Do we know our best bowling combinations? With Santner out that causes more headaches I'd say.



  • Is it arrogant to assume a 2-0 victory to the BCs ? Pakistan hasn't played outstandingly well in NZ since the two Ws retired and NZ are a different team at home.....I say this all despite losing the last five tests too.



  • @MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    Is it arrogant to assume a 2-0 victory to the BCs ? Pakistan hasn't played outstandingly well in NZ since the two Ws retired and NZ are a different team at home.....I say this all despite losing the last five tests too.

    Probably, Pakistan were number one for a while there, they've got an awesome team and their seam attack won't mind some assistance at all. It will be a tough series.



  • @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    @MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    Is it arrogant to assume a 2-0 victory to the BCs ? Pakistan hasn't played outstandingly well in NZ since the two Ws retired and NZ are a different team at home.....I say this all despite losing the last five tests too.

    Probably, Pakistan were number one for a while there, they've got an awesome team and their seam attack won't mind some assistance at all. It will be a tough series.

    I hear all that but in many ways they're like France are in rugby.........and the Black Caps certainly aren't the ABs in comparison.....let's not forget our noitoriously shitty weather at this time of year playing a part too ie cold, bleak and blustery but still "playable" so to speak.



  • favouritism would come with us assuming Williamson dominates, Rossco rediscovers form, Latham continues progress, and someone else gets hot with the bat. And we find a spinner, and someone backs up Boult, and Wagner can keep bouncing people out.

    Considering Pakistan have proven they can win in England, we can't just rely on them being done over by the conditions.

    Personally only home advantage has us at 50/50 i reckon



  • @mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    favouritism would come with us assuming Williamson dominates, Rossco rediscovers form, Latham continues progress, and someone else gets hot with the bat. And we find a spinner, and someone backs up Boult, and Wagner can keep bouncing people out.

    Considering Pakistan have proven they can win in England, we can't just rely on them being done over by the conditions.

    Personally only home advantage has us at 50/50 i reckon

    It's a strange obsession I reckon we should give up on. The next Murali or Warne is pie in the sky stuff but even the next Vettori is beyond us which makes you appreciate how good DV was.



  • @MN5 you know you're the only one saying that right? You rubbish Santner because he's not Warne/Murali, then say we need to stop obsessing about having someone as good as Warne/Murali.

    I don't need Warne, i would be happy with Nathan Lyon for christ's sake. Santner might be alright, but i think he's out? Craig is fucking terrible. Sodhi far too loose. Even on a seamer i still think you need a spin bowler, and i am loath to require our best bat and skipper to also carry a shit load of 4th inning overs.



  • All we need is someone who can consistently hold down an end when it matters. Not someone who gives away 4 balls and releases any pressure our better bowlers apply. I like Santner but he's injured and out for at least the 1st test. We are scraping when it comes to who is next. Just have to look at who got the emergency call up last series....



  • @mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    @MN5 you know you're the only one saying that right? You rubbish Santner because he's not Warne/Murali, then say we need to stop obsessing about having someone as good as Warne/Murali.

    I don't need Warne, i would be happy with Nathan Lyon for christ's sake. Santner might be alright, but i think he's out? Craig is fucking terrible. Sodhi far too loose. Even on a seamer i still think you need a spin bowler, and i am loath to require our best bat and skipper to also carry a shit load of 4th inning overs.

    Well you said Santner had a "good" tour of India which in itself is an interesting call.

    52 runs per wicket I think he got ? how's that any better than Sodhi or Craig ?

    He seems to have potential with the bat granted but are we really at the stage where it's a case of "chuck some overs down and hope for the best?"

    There's no rule that a team HAS to have a designated spinner. DV was an automatic selection. None of these guys have shown anything close to what he did.



  • @MN5 um, no shit? You started this by replying to my comment that we had to find a spinner. If we had one already, we wouldn't have to look would we.

    I may have slightly overstated his tour of India, but i heard more than one indian commentator who was reasonably impressed with him despite his figures. He's far from the finished article, but shows promise. But he's out. So we are still looking.



  • Just looked at the stats for the Indian test series. He took 10 wickets at 52, equal top wicket taker with Boult (who averaged 33).

    Craig took 2 @ 70
    Sodhi took 3 @ 50
    Patel took 6 @ 49



  • @mariner4life

    All I'm saying is Craig = shit....and injured
    Sodhi = slightly above Craig, not sure of his health
    Patel = maybe a slight notch above again....
    Santner = possibly the best of them all....which is moot as he is injured

    A combination of all four of them at various times got the Black Caps five test losses in a row.

    Again, no set rule that a team HAS to have a spinner, none of these guys exactly inspire confidence so if there's someone potentially better plugging away in NZ domestic cricket then let's see him.....if not then why not go in with four seam bowlers ? Wagner and Bracewell in particular don't exactly shirk work.



  • @MN5 if we had 4 good seamers i would probably agree with you, but we don't. And that is short term thinking as it hardly sets us up to play anywhere but in NZ, and maybe England.



  • @mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    @MN5 if we had 4 good seamers i would probably agree with you, but we don't. And that is short term thinking as it hardly sets us up to play anywhere but in NZ, and maybe England.

    You don't rate a combo of Boult, Southee, Wagner and Bracewell at their best ? ( fair enough, chances of that happening at once is remote.....but this last couple of weeks has proved anything is fucken possible in the world )

    But anyway you say we don't have four good seamers, I counter that with we don't have one good spinner.



  • @MN5 Bracewell? He averages about 45 since that one great test (and what a test it was). Wagner is the stock bowler we need. Southee? come on, "at his best" and "over the last couple of years" are a world apart.

    Look, i understand your argument (now that you have moved the goalposts) and it's not without merit, i just think we need a spinner if we are to be successful going forward. And if it's a choice of a shit 4th seamer, or a shit spinner, i'll take the spinner because he might grow in to something, whereas i know what Bracewell is, or is not, capable of.



  • @MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    @MN5 if we had 4 good seamers i would probably agree with you, but we don't. And that is short term thinking as it hardly sets us up to play anywhere but in NZ, and maybe England.

    You don't rate a combo of Boult, Southee, Wagner and Bracewell at their best ? ( fair enough, chances of that happening at once is remote.....but this last couple of weeks has proved anything is fucken possible in the world )

    But anyway you say we don't have four good seamers, I counter that with we don't have one good spinner.

    mmm if we went into a test match with that I know I'd be holding my breath for long periods of time....

    Plus that's a very long tail on top of a jittery middle order.



  • bracewell at least has a first class average in the mid 20s, as opposed to santner's 48...
    i prefer henry anyway, and wish for milne. ish bowls more wicket balls to my eye, but is way too loose.



  • @reprobate but he's played enough tests for us to judge him on that average alone



  • @ACT-Crusader said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    @MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    @MN5 if we had 4 good seamers i would probably agree with you, but we don't. And that is short term thinking as it hardly sets us up to play anywhere but in NZ, and maybe England.

    You don't rate a combo of Boult, Southee, Wagner and Bracewell at their best ? ( fair enough, chances of that happening at once is remote.....but this last couple of weeks has proved anything is fucken possible in the world )

    But anyway you say we don't have four good seamers, I counter that with we don't have one good spinner.

    mmm if we went into a test match with that I know I'd be holding my breath for long periods of time....

    Plus that's a very long tail on top of a jittery middle order.

    Is it ? I guess all our shit spinners can at least hold a bat.

    ....not to mention Bracewell is an "all rounder"......we're sweet.



  • @mariner4life fair enough, but then santner has played enough first class games to suggest that is representative too.



  • Guptil to get the arse, replaced by Raval.
    Astle comes in for Satnav.



  • @Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    Guptil to get the arse, replaced by Raval.
    Astle comes in for Satnav.

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/plunket-shield-2016-17/engine/records/batting/highest_career_batting_average.html?id=11507;type=tournament

    Guppy's time had run out, but this set of stats show why it's a worry.



  • @Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:

    Guptil to get the arse, replaced by Raval.
    Astle comes in for Satnav.

    Yes, please. Especially in regards to Astle.


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