Origins



  • Have been contemplating starting a thread pondering "Life, the Universe and Everything" for a while now. Just haven't got around to trying to put some words together around it all.

    The idea grew out of a book I read a few months ago called "Unsolved Mysteries of Science" http://www.booktopia.com.au/unsolved-mysteries-of-science-john-malone/prod9780471384410.html?source=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiA4dPCBRCM4dqhlv2R1R8SJABom9pHTb7aprXYTKhpUTaekoguZb-wHzefzhm5Dcpb7ahcxhoCl2Pw_wcB
    which was a study of a whole heap of stuff that we don't really know the answers to.

    Stuff like:

    • why the big bang isn't how the universe started
    • quantum physics doesn't explain it either
    • what the fuck is gravity anyway?
    • how we can only exist in 10 or 21 dimensions because string theory and an infinite number of universes
    • what is stuff actually made of (i.e., sub sub sub atomic particles)
    • dark matter
      And other such stuff that really fucks with your mind

    And some less interesting stuff like how birds navigate, where humans originated and how we learn language.

    Admittedly the book was 15 years old and I expect "we" know more now than back then (what with CERN and Higg's boson and stuff) only 15 years ago.

    At the risk of incurring the wrath or scorn of the religiously anti religious on here it got me thinking about "Why?". Where did it all come from? And pondering the nature of exactly what "god" is. I mean could "god" be defined by the laws of the Universe (or Multiverse or Cosmos) or could "God" BE the laws of the Universe?

    Interestingly I've picked up a book with a foreword by Stephen Hawking (called 'The Origin of (almost) Everything'* who echoes a similar thought about "god" (note the lower case g).

    • written by some bloke called Gavin Lawton, published by New Scientist. Published 2016 so expecting that a few ideas are updated.

    I haven't fully expressed or explored my point in the above, and I really don't know if I have one other than some Rumsfeld-esque ramblings about known unknowns et al. I was intending put pen to paper, well keyboard to ether, over the Christmas break to further explore the issues.

    But what prompted me to bring this up now - before i compose a longer even more incoherent waffle - is a related bit of news where Frank appears to have said basically "Believe the science":

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-declares-evolution-and-big-bang-theory-are-right-and-god-isnt-a-magician-with-a-magic-9822514.html

    Which is huge admission from the head (Western) God Botherer (but makes perfect sense and in my limited knowledge and humble opinion isn't necessarily at complete odds with the Christian creation myth ... likely to cause a few ructions in the more devout areas of Drumpf-central though).

    It also sparked me to post this.

    In a nut shell I suppose I remain in awe of the shit we just don't know.

    Interested in thoughts if any.



  • FYI The contents of yhe first book I mentioned are:

    How Did the Universe Begin?

    How Did Life on Earth Get Started?

    What Causes Mass Extinctions?

    What Is the Inside of the Earth Like?

    What Causes Ice Ages?

    Were Dinosaurs Warm-blooded?

    Is There a Missing Link?

    What Caused the "Big Bang" in Human Culture?

    How Do We Learn Language?

    Are Dolphins As Smart As We Are?

    How Do Birds Migrate?

    What Is Red?

    How Did Mayan Astronomers Know So Much?

    What Is Gravity?

    What Is Light?

    Why Is There So Much Quantum Frustration?

    What Are Black Holes Really Like?

    How Old Is the Universe?

    Are There Multiple Universes?

    How Many Dimensions Are There?

    How Will the Universe End?



  • These questions have always spun me out.

    If the universe had a beginning, what was there before?

    If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding in to?



  • Good chance we're all living in a computer simulation



  • Who built the simulation? And where did their universe come from?

    And can they please stop watching me masturbate in the toilet?



  • Fuck! You too?!!

    Er, I mean.. you sick fuck...



  • @NTA said in Origins:

    Good chance we're all living in a computer simulation

    Cogito ergo sum

    Therefore none of you exist and neither does the toilet ...



  • @mariner4life said in Origins:

    These questions have always spun me out.

    If the universe had a beginning, what was there before?

    If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding in to?

    Yeah. Define "nothing".

    If there was "nothing" before there was not even time.

    And in our concept of "nothing" we probably think of vast swathes of space - a void - but even that is a something ...

    And the extension is if "in the beginning" there was nothing then "everything" added together adds up to, well, nothing ...

    Eeek ...





  • @booboo said in Origins:

    Therefore none of you exist and neither does the toilet ...

    Who typed that?!!



  • @mariner4life be better if you shut the door once in a while, no body wants to watch that shit...ratings drop to an all time low when you forget the door!



  • @mariner4life said in Origins:

    Who built the simulation? And where did their universe come from?

    And can they please stop watching me masturbate in the toilet?

    I'm no longer welcome in the bathroom section of Bunnings either...



  • @booboo said in Origins:

    Yeah. Define "nothing".

    If there was "nothing" before there was not even time.

    Thats the bit I always struggle with, the whole idea that to us there is no "before" because time as we understand it is just another thing created by the big bang itself.

    So there is no "before" as there was no such thing as time. Einstein got it & rolled it into relativity, personally I just accept its something I'll never really get my head round. I think they are saying there was something before the BB, but as it was impossible to measure in anyway its irrelevant. IE pre BB mass was infinate & time didn't exist. Much smarter people who have devoted their life to physics get it & thats good enough for me.

    Yet I'm more than happy to buy that any super massive thing can distort time (eg black hole) which is in the same ball park. Once you buy that you are buying the idea that time is no different to any other dimension we can measure.



  • The Force is with us....always



  • @Crucial said in Origins:

    The Force is with us....always

    Until it gets Han Solo killed, right?



  • @NTA said in Origins:

    @Crucial said in Origins:

    The Force is with us....always

    Until it gets Han Solo killed, right?

    The Force's will.



  • And I'm pretty sure he rises up more powerfuil than you can possibly imagine in the next one.



  • @gollum said in Origins:

    And I'm pretty sure he rises up more powerfuil than you can possibly imagine in the next one.

    No. that was only for Obi wan and Yoda (until Lucas mucked around and added Liam Neeson and Hayden Christainson into those that hold the power.



  • @mariner4life said in Origins:

    Who built the simulation? And where did their universe come from?

    Future us.

    http://www.vox.com/technology/2016/6/23/12007694/elon-musk-simulation-cartoon



  • @Crucial said in Origins:

    The Force is with us....always

    I reckon they'll be gone within 3 years. Oz can't justify 5 franchises



  • Might need to worry about the immediate future:

    • Truck attack at market in Berlin

    • Russian ambassador killed in Ankara by Turkish cop



  • @gollum said in Origins:

    @mariner4life said in Origins:

    Who built the simulation? And where did their universe come from?

    Future us.

    http://www.vox.com/technology/2016/6/23/12007694/elon-musk-simulation-cartoon

    Why couldn't I be the model run that got to shag all the hot chicks?

    If I ever meet that version - he's fucking dead!!!



  • @mariner4life said in Origins:

    These questions have always spun me out.

    If the universe had a beginning, what was there before?

    I had a theory when I was in high school that it was cyclical. Take our present situation with black holes, for argument's sake the massive black hole in galaxy NGC 1277 in the constellation Perseus. It's swallowing everything up to the point it's currently estimated to have a mass of 17 billion suns. My conjecture was ultimately these black holes end up swallowing all mass and the pressure at the point of singularity meant that in line with Boyle's Law, the temperature was infinite. Under such pressure, everything breaks down to subatomic levels which permitted matter to escape as per Hawking Radiation. I couldn't quite surmise why it would then do so violently, but the whole theory fell on its arse not just because of my inability to further develop the theory or do the required math, but because the universe is red shifted. Which kinda fucked my idea becoming worthy of a Nobel Prize.

    If the universe is expanding, what is it expanding in to?

    You need to think in terms of time and distance, which complicates things. Since you can't observe the universe from outside the universe, your perception is limited to what's inside. The best analogy is to pretend you're inside a balloon. To you given you're insignificant size there's no curve, the surface or edge is flat. The balloon might be inflating so from your perception everything is moving further away, but they're actually not moving.

    It becomes more complicated when you look at the various possible models for the shape of the ballloon.



  • @antipodean still nothing on the outside of the balloon though is there...not like space can come to a big wall, and you cant go any further...



  • @taniwharugby said in Origins:

    @antipodean still nothing on the outside of the balloon though is there...not like space can come to a big wall, and you cant go any further...

    That's why one of the predominate theories (Friedmann's first) is space curves upon itself. Travel long enough and you end up where you started just like the surface of Earth - finite but with no boundary. Of course, that wouldn't happen because the universe would collapse to zero size before you could travel around it.



  • Have become a fan over the break of 'The Infinite Monkey Cage'.

    Google it if you're not familiar. Well worth a listen.

    Been listening to pretty much the entire "back catelogue" of podcasts. Somebody mentioned it on the "podcasts" thread. I had heard the odd episode here on the ABC previously. Usually over the summer period (ie now).

    Not sure if I'm better informed as I probably need to give it my undivided but I've generally had them playing in the background as I've been doing other stuff.

    Need to re-listen to a few. Hopefully some info has found it's way in by osmosis.

    Some laugh out loud lines. Giggled at one i heard this morning when discussing homeopathy and that the homeopaths were trying to poison them. The proof being they had analysed the drinking water and found absolutely no trace of cyanide.

    If nothing else it appears that perhaps gravity doesn't actually exist. Just space-time curves at massive objects because Einstein.

    Basically creation (for want of a better word) is out and out weird and completely counter intuitive.

    And somewhen due to the joy of an infinite number of universes I am an All Black. 🙂

    Still not sure exactly when strawberries die though. Something to do with cats in boxes.



  • @booboo If you like Infinite Monkey Cage, Robin Ince plus guests are doing 3 science shows in NZ in April (Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch)

    http://atheistfoundation.org.au/cosmicshambleslive/


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