Housing hornets' nest



  • Tony Alexander has stirred up a hornets' nest by effectively writing that Gen X/Y's who want to own their own house need to harden up, stop drinking lattes and spend their weekends with a hammer in their hand.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/90006090/dont-blame-the-boomers-for-high-house-prices

    Today, the BNZ CEO has largely apologized for the comments - "his more inflammatory remarks".

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/90090644/learn-from-boomers-comments-spark-apology

    I wouldn't usually refer anyone to the Stuff comments section, since usually you'll end up stupider for reading the comments, but there's lots of quite fascinating ones and an evident divide between the wealthy home owning baby boomers and some pretty bitter Gen X/Y kids.

    As a member of the former group, I reckon it would be pretty interesting to stick one of the latter group in a time machine to go back and find how good we had it in the 1960s, 70s, 80s. I suspect they wouldn't like it that much.



  • @Chris-B. said in Housing hornets' nest:

    Tony Alexander has stirred up a hornets' nest by effectively writing that Gen X/Y's who want to own their own house need to harden up, stop drinking lattes and spend their weekends with a hammer in their hand.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/90006090/dont-blame-the-boomers-for-high-house-prices

    Today, the BNZ CEO has largely apologized for the comments - "his more inflammatory remarks".

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/90090644/learn-from-boomers-comments-spark-apology

    I wouldn't usually refer anyone to the Stuff comments section, since usually you'll end up stupider for reading the comments, but there's lots of quite fascinating ones and an evident divide between the wealthy home owning baby boomers and some pretty bitter Gen X/Y kids.

    As a member of the former group, I reckon it would be pretty interesting to stick one of the latter group in a time machine to go back and find how good we had it in the 1960s, 70s, 80s. I suspect they wouldn't like it that much.

    Boomers had cheaper houses, better house to income ratio but then the interest rates were in the mid to high 20's.
    Every generation likes to bitch about the previous one, or the current one.
    The music is too loud, it sounds shit why do they swear so much?



  • I thought David Seymour's comment about having to give up 26 lattes a day to match the rise in house prices last year was quite apt...

    I don't think the generational blame game does much though. About as much use as careers and workplace generalisations based on people falling into three or four generational categories... at least horoscopes have 12 bullshit categories to divide millions of people up into...



  • reminds me of this article that resurfaces now and again (repeated in this article by a Kaikohe Princial)

    Always we hear the cry from teenagers, 'What can we do, where can we go?'
    My answer is this: Go home, mow the lawn, wash the windows, learn to cook, build a raft, get a job, visit the sick, study your lessons, and after you've finished, read a book.
    Your town does not owe you recreational facilities and your parents do not owe you fun.
    The world does not owe you a living, you owe the world something.
    You owe it your time, energy and talent so that no one will be at war, in poverty or sick and lonely again.
    In other words, grow up, stop being a cry baby, get out of your dream world and develop a backbone, not a wishbone.
    Start behaving like a responsible person.
    You are important and you are needed.
    It's too late to sit around and wait for somebody to do something someday.
    Someday is now and that somebody is you.

    Was written almost 60 years ago...current elderly always look at the younger generation yearning for the old days....I don't expect I will say anything like this to my kids.



  • @Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:

    Boomers had cheaper houses, better house to income ratio but then the interest rates were in the mid to high 20's.
    Every generation likes to bitch about the previous one, or the current one.
    The music is too loud, it sounds shit why do they swear so much?

    Boomers is just about two generations rolled into one - some of the early Boomers would have bought houses before some of the late Boomers were even born, so there's a pretty wide range of housing market conditions experienced.

    Lots of distortions that would really have to be built into the equation to make things properly comparable, including relative tax rates, the relative costs of other goods and services, proportion of single vs double income families (including that, aside from social norms, appliances were so shit that it was harder for women to go out to work in the old days).

    I distinctly remember that cars were fucking expensive (and old). Took me three years to save for my first car - a seven year old high mileage Datsun 180B.


  • Banned

    White goods and tvs, electrics etc. were also bloody expensive weren't they?

    The shut up and ditch the latte arguments seem to be quite prominent at the moment. Was watching Sky the other days and one bloke was asking how gen Y could bitch about house prices while stuffing their faces with 20 buck smashed avocado.



  • the old "stop eating at cafes so you can save for a house" argument probably looks pretty fucking unbelievable when it costs you $800K to buy a house, and the bank will only lend you 80% of that. $160K is a fuck load of lattes and smashed avo on toast. Especially given the rental market.



  • @mariner4life said in Housing hornets' nest:

    the old "stop eating at cafes so you can save for a house" argument probably looks pretty fucking unbelievable when it costs you $800K to buy a house, and the bank will only lend you 80% of that. $160K is a fuck load of lattes and smashed avo on toast. Especially given the rental market.

    Chuck in sky with the works. 2 iPhones, a family holiday to the Gold Coast every couple years.
    Doesn't cover everyone but I'm certain there's couples/families out there that would have a chance if they could show some financial sense and live beyond their means



  • @Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:

    @mariner4life said in Housing hornets' nest:

    the old "stop eating at cafes so you can save for a house" argument probably looks pretty fucking unbelievable when it costs you $800K to buy a house, and the bank will only lend you 80% of that. $160K is a fuck load of lattes and smashed avo on toast. Especially given the rental market.

    Chuck in sky with the works. 2 iPhones, a family holiday to the Gold Coast every couple years. months
    Doesn't cover everyone but I'm certain there's couples/families out there that would have a chance if they could show some financial sense and live beyond their means

    Fixed it. I'm not saying that people should hold back on what they spend if they don't want to, but he is right to say that comparing to previous generations isn't right. Can you imagine 20% plus interest rates!!



  • @Virgil indeed. However these arguments very rarely focus on those who could find a way, but rather paint every aspiring property purchaser with the same brush, circumstances be damned.

    You can't blame the baby boomers for $1M 3-bedroom cottages half an hour from the CBD, and not every aspiring home-owner can't get a deposit together because they want to keep living "the life" (and i wouldn't call all of those things you list as outrageous expenditure either).

    The missus and I are currently saving a heap to pay for our new house (fucking build costs go up every time you turn around) because we couldn't sell our old one for enough. We're on decent money, and sticking away a lot, but even then, it would take years to save a 20% deposit at our current rate. That's got to be disheartening for some people, especially given the whole time they are saving, prices keep going up at huge rates.



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel Yeah - for a lot of the time imported electrical goods had huge tariffs on them - and lots of them were pretty shit, to boot!

    I've got an old ChCh Press newspaper from 1970 that I just dug out to have a look at some relativities.

    The Ashburton Power Board was advertising for a registered electrician who they were going to pay $3450 p.a. (presumably gross) so that guy would have taken home $45-50 per week. A typist's job was advertised at $1100-2350 depending on experience.

    You could buy a two bedroom flat in Papanui for $12,000 or a 4 bedroom house in Fendalton for $26,000.

    A 1962 Vanguard would set you back $1150. You could get a Hoover Super Constellation Vacuum Cleaner for $65, a Zip Thermaglo radiant heater for $34, and an average Atlas range for about $180. A tin of apricot halves were on special at 23c.



  • I always wonder how people know who amongst their fellow cafe dwellers guzzling lattes and eating smashed avos by the boxful are the ones who are or aren't saving for a home deposit.

    Or whether it's the first time they've been in a cafe in months...

    I can remember plenty of people buying teles last time unemployment peaked in 2009 and we were running regional job summits too... but they weren't necessarily one and the same people...

    20% interest rates and bread costing tuppeny ha'penny make for wonderful nostalgic rants for fossils on talkback radio... but a comparison to when 12- 15 years ago you could get a reasonable 3 bedroom house in the Tron for 150 - 170k at 6% interest rates might be another comparison for the much-maligned 'youth of today'.



  • Some people need to drop their expectations for their first house.
    It doesnt need to have 4 bedrooms and be 20 mins from the CBD.
    Its your first house afterall, not your 2nd.

    We live in Helensville, onto our 2nd home in 7 years. Our first only cost $235k in 2009.
    You can still find tidy 3 bed homes for around $500k. Its only 40 mins from downtown Auckland, 30 mins from Westgate or Albany.
    But no its not trendy enough for the current hip young generation.



  • @Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:

    Some people need to drop their expectations for their first house.
    It doesnt need to have 4 bedrooms and be 20 mins from the CBD.
    Its your first house afterall, not your 2nd.

    We live in Helensville, onto our 2nd home in 7 years. Our first only cost $235k in 2009.
    You can still find tidy 3 bed homes for around $500k. Its only 40 mins from downtown Auckland, 30 mins from Westgate or Albany.
    But no its not trendy enough for the current hip young generation.

    That first home that you paid $235k for in 2009... is it still anywhere near that price vicinity now?

    I wonder how many of us would get into our same first homes now - with current house prices and current salaries. I'm not sure that we would have anywhere near as quickly... and I am thinking a fairly basic 90sqm house there before @Virgil starts muttering about the feckless Gen Y from the vantage point of his mobility scooter 🙂



  • @Virgil i call bullshit on that last line, that seems as easy to say as "too much smashed avo".

    You are right on part though, your first house should be a step down on what you actually want. But it is sometimes a massive call to save for that, spend what is still a lot of money, and then sign yourself up for 6.5 hours in the car a week. And that's just to get to work, let alone to see your friends on the weekend, play for your sports club... Change jobs, make new friends, get a new club. Those are big life decisions that moving that far afield may well require.

    People are very big on telling other people what they need to do, especially if they don't need to do it themselves (that's not directed at you Virgil, but at these arguments in their entirety)



  • @Donsteppa said in Housing hornets' nest:

    @Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:

    Some people need to drop their expectations for their first house.
    It doesnt need to have 4 bedrooms and be 20 mins from the CBD.
    Its your first house afterall, not your 2nd.

    We live in Helensville, onto our 2nd home in 7 years. Our first only cost $235k in 2009.
    You can still find tidy 3 bed homes for around $500k. Its only 40 mins from downtown Auckland, 30 mins from Westgate or Albany.
    But no its not trendy enough for the current hip young generation.

    That first home that you paid $235k for in 2009... is it still anywhere near that price vicinity now?

    I wonder how many of us would get into our same first homes now - with current house prices and current salaries. I'm not sure that we would have anywhere near as quickly... and I am thinking a fairly basic 90sqm house there before @Virgil starts muttering about the feckless Gen Y from the vantage point of his mobility scooter 🙂

    Sold it 2 years ago for $425k
    It's going to here but the prices are noting compared to the rest of Auckland.
    You don't need to spend $800 - $900k and more for a home.



  • @Donsteppa i could, but only because the prices here stagnated just after i purchased (fucking GFC fucked Cairns). I sold it last year but only made about $25k (despite doing a heap of work around it).

    That said, when we bought it, i was able to borrow 95%, and the first home owners grant was the bulk of my deposit. The banks changed their policies not long after that.



  • @Donsteppa said in Housing hornets' nest:

    @Virgil said in Housing hornets' nest:

    Some people need to drop their expectations for their first house.
    It doesnt need to have 4 bedrooms and be 20 mins from the CBD.
    Its your first house afterall, not your 2nd.

    We live in Helensville, onto our 2nd home in 7 years. Our first only cost $235k in 2009.
    You can still find tidy 3 bed homes for around $500k. Its only 40 mins from downtown Auckland, 30 mins from Westgate or Albany.
    But no its not trendy enough for the current hip young generation.

    That first home that you paid $235k for in 2009... is it still anywhere near that price vicinity now?

    I wonder how many of us would get into our same first homes now - with current house prices and current salaries. I'm not sure that we would have anywhere near as quickly... and I am thinking a fairly basic 90sqm house there before @Virgil starts muttering about the feckless Gen Y from the vantage point of his mobility scooter 🙂

    I'm not sure whether I could get back into it now but I felt sorry for the poor bastard that bought it off me. I sold it in December 2007 he tried to sell it in 2009 for what
    he paid me after he recarpeted the place and put in a new kitchen. Ouch.

    Took me me two years of working every weekend and through Xmas to come up with the deposit and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.


  • Banned

    @mariner4life said in Housing hornets' nest:

    the old "stop eating at cafes so you can save for a house" argument probably looks pretty fucking unbelievable when it costs you $800K to buy a house, and the bank will only lend you 80% of that. $160K is a fuck load of lattes and smashed avo on toast. Especially given the rental market.

    Do you go the smashed avocado before or after the dildo?



  • Did anyone see the Nigel Latta show on money recently? Was pretty interesting, talked about how human's rarely make rational, logical decisions with money, but rather emotional decisions that don't make financial sense. Had an accountant on there who said he was awesome with other people's money because there was no emotion involved but was terrible with his own money.

    It's pretty easy to make the argument that other people could just not do xyz and they'd have more money, and it's true enough, but human's are not robots so someone actually making the decision to live on the absolute bones of their arse for the next 5 or so years to save for a shitty house miles away from the CBD is not easy to do. Especially when life is so short/fragile a lot of people choose to experience as much as possible while they're still young and fit.

    The problem with these arguments is that they always generalise people that have completely different lives. Different backgrounds, different wants and needs, different outlooks and make their decisions based on that. For example there was an article today about a 21 year old woman that bought a house in Feilding. Good for her but personally I'd rather pay through my teeth to live in Auckland than live in fucking Feilding....


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