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@NTA said in Ferners in London:
@Catogrande said in Ferners in London:
You would also have to assume that back in the 70's and 80's the security forces were working hard in pre-empting IRA threats.
I've seen that a few times on facebook after each attack. What it doesn't consider is that this generation of terrorists are willing and in fact trying to kill themselves for their cause for a percieved afterlife of bliss. That is a very different beast to try and combat. Gollum is right its absolutely incredible that there haven't been more instances of this as it is almost impossible to defend against. I do think that is partly due to the exceptional work of the counter-terrorism forces as well as the UK having decent natural borders.
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@Rembrandt said in Ferners in London:
I do think that is partly due to the exceptional work of the counter-terrorism forces as well as the UK having decent natural borders.
It's also due to the fact the actual risk is massively overplayed.
The IRA, BMG, ETA etc were all paramiltary trained groups heavily (professionally) armed, openly funded & supported by huge chuncks of the population who openly collaborated with them - when I got here there were still pubs with collection buckets to support the IRA in them, can you imagine that now?
Current group are lone wolf nutters, with limited / no training, very little weaponry, almost zero support in the community
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@gollum said in Ferners in London:
Also worth noting that at its height over a quarter of Germans expressed support of some degree for the BMG....
Not exactly. A quarter of Germans under the age of 40. And that was when they were gunning for the establishment. I somehow doubt that they would have enjoyed anything like that support if they were driving lorries into civilians at the Christmas markets.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Ferners in London:
@gollum said in Ferners in London:
Also worth noting that at its height over a quarter of Germans expressed support of some degree for the BMG....
Not exactly. A quarter of Germans under the age of 40. And that was when they were gunning for the establishment. I somehow doubt that they would have enjoyed anything like that support if they were driving lorries into civilians at the Christmas markets.
Sure, but my point was (as the graph from Nick pointed out) the 70's & 80's in Europe were a far more dangerous time for terror than now. Because there were terror groups supported by huge chunks of the population, heaviliy armed, well trained.
In contrast to now. So I'm not sure how your comment re xmas markets is vaild? Unless its to explain why we are safer now - as the public very much do not support the current lot in any meaningful way? Thats an excellent point
In which case I fully agree with you. We are much,, much safer now yes.
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If it's worth anything I have less fear of getting caught up in something horrible in London today as I did when here in the 80s.
Between the pickpockets, football hooligans and IRA there was a quite real sense of any day you had to be on your toes.
They have been replaced by Islamic terrorists that most of the time get stopped before shit goes down. -
Yeah I'm in that bucket too (from the early 90's onwards), there was genuine concern back then re bombs in pubs, then there was that spate of gay nail bombings (Admiral Duncan) that made Soho a pretty scary area. Euston / Kings Cross pubs on big match days were very dicey too.
I literally have zero concern going out anywhere in London now
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@gollum said in Ferners in London:
Yeah I'm in that bucket too (from the early 90's onwards), there was genuine concern back then re bombs in pubs, then there was that spate of gay nail bombings (Admiral Duncan) that made Soho a pretty scary area. Euston / Kings Cross pubs on big match days were very dicey too.
I literally have zero concern going out anywhere in London now
I wouldn't say zero concern but I do remember back in the 80s thinking it wasn't the safest place to be. Even things like the Kings Cross fire would be unlikely now.
As I said earlier, I keep my eyes and ears open without being on edge and any whiff of trouble I get the hell out of there.
I was changing lines at Paddington one day and the alarms started. I was out of there quick time and plenty of people were just dawdling unconcerned. Sorry, but an alarm when I am in one of those rabbit warrens makes me want out damn fast. -
@NTA said in Ferners in London:
@Catogrande said in Ferners in London:
You would also have to assume that back in the 70's and 80's the security forces were working hard in pre-empting IRA threats.
I'm sure posting that made Catherine feel quite proud of herself but it's fairly trite . You can't really compare the IRA with ISIS etc and then try and pretend there's no issue with Islam because the IRA behaved like fluffybunnies.
Also while we are on the subject Martin McGuiness passing this week was long overdue.
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Jeez there is a shit load of 'whataboutery' in this thread......
But I guess it is ok when it suits your argument, just not when the other guys do it... -
@jegga said in Ferners in London:
@NTA said in Ferners in London:
@Catogrande said in Ferners in London:
You would also have to assume that back in the 70's and 80's the security forces were working hard in pre-empting IRA threats.
I'm sure posting that made Catherine feel quite proud of herself but it's fairly trite . You can't really compare the IRA with ISIS etc and then try and pretend there's no issue with Islam because the IRA behaved like fluffybunnies.
Also while we are on the subject Martin McGuiness passing this week was long overdue.
And there was a widespread discussions and condemnation of the ideology behind the attacks.
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@gollum said in Ferners in London:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Ferners in London:
@gollum said in Ferners in London:
Also worth noting that at its height over a quarter of Germans expressed support of some degree for the BMG....
Not exactly. A quarter of Germans under the age of 40. And that was when they were gunning for the establishment. I somehow doubt that they would have enjoyed anything like that support if they were driving lorries into civilians at the Christmas markets.
Sure, but my point was (as the graph from Nick pointed out) the 70's & 80's in Europe were a far more dangerous time for terror than now. Because there were terror groups supported by huge chunks of the population, heaviliy armed, well trained.
In contrast to now. So I'm not sure how your comment re xmas markets is vaild? Unless its to explain why we are safer now - as the public very much do not support the current lot in any meaningful way? Thats an excellent point
In which case I fully agree with you. We are much,, much safer now yes.
If we're safer now, then a massive reason for that is the security and intelligence services, not that terrorism is any less of a threat.
As much as you like to wank on about Baader Meinhoff, they never targeted civilians like the Islamic crazies. They never drove lorries into crowds celebrating national day and at the Christmas markets. The current lot will literary strike at any target and at anyone. And the scary thing is, a guy can be recruited and even trained from his bedroom.
But yeah, I'm sure you not considering there to be any threat is great comfort to the poor bastards who were murdered yesterday, not to mention anyone who has been blown up or gunned down by this phenomenon that only an idiot would be concerned about.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Ferners in London:
@gollum said in Ferners in London:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Ferners in London:
@gollum said in Ferners in London:
Also worth noting that at its height over a quarter of Germans expressed support of some degree for the BMG....
Not exactly. A quarter of Germans under the age of 40. And that was when they were gunning for the establishment. I somehow doubt that they would have enjoyed anything like that support if they were driving lorries into civilians at the Christmas markets.
Sure, but my point was (as the graph from Nick pointed out) the 70's & 80's in Europe were a far more dangerous time for terror than now. Because there were terror groups supported by huge chunks of the population, heaviliy armed, well trained.
In contrast to now. So I'm not sure how your comment re xmas markets is vaild? Unless its to explain why we are safer now - as the public very much do not support the current lot in any meaningful way? Thats an excellent point
In which case I fully agree with you. We are much,, much safer now yes.
And the scary thing is, a guy can be recruited and even trained from his bedroom.
Or simply inspired by stuff he sees in the media or on the internet, doesn't even need to have had contact with anyone.
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@taniwharugby said in Ferners in London:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Ferners in London:
@gollum said in Ferners in London:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Ferners in London:
@gollum said in Ferners in London:
Also worth noting that at its height over a quarter of Germans expressed support of some degree for the BMG....
Not exactly. A quarter of Germans under the age of 40. And that was when they were gunning for the establishment. I somehow doubt that they would have enjoyed anything like that support if they were driving lorries into civilians at the Christmas markets.
Sure, but my point was (as the graph from Nick pointed out) the 70's & 80's in Europe were a far more dangerous time for terror than now. Because there were terror groups supported by huge chunks of the population, heaviliy armed, well trained.
In contrast to now. So I'm not sure how your comment re xmas markets is vaild? Unless its to explain why we are safer now - as the public very much do not support the current lot in any meaningful way? Thats an excellent point
In which case I fully agree with you. We are much,, much safer now yes.
And the scary thing is, a guy can be recruited and even trained from his bedroom.
Or simply inspired by stuff he sees in the media or on the internet, doesn't even need to have had contact with anyone.
Yeah - like fashion bloggers on instagram.
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@taniwharugby said in Ferners in London:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Ferners in London:
@gollum said in Ferners in London:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Ferners in London:
@gollum said in Ferners in London:
Also worth noting that at its height over a quarter of Germans expressed support of some degree for the BMG....
Not exactly. A quarter of Germans under the age of 40. And that was when they were gunning for the establishment. I somehow doubt that they would have enjoyed anything like that support if they were driving lorries into civilians at the Christmas markets.
Sure, but my point was (as the graph from Nick pointed out) the 70's & 80's in Europe were a far more dangerous time for terror than now. Because there were terror groups supported by huge chunks of the population, heaviliy armed, well trained.
In contrast to now. So I'm not sure how your comment re xmas markets is vaild? Unless its to explain why we are safer now - as the public very much do not support the current lot in any meaningful way? Thats an excellent point
In which case I fully agree with you. We are much,, much safer now yes.
And the scary thing is, a guy can be recruited and even trained from his bedroom.
Or simply inspired by stuff he sees in the media or on the internet, doesn't even need to have had contact with anyone.
Why couldn't these cretins stick to using the internet primarily for porn, like the rest of us
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@No-Quarter is that what you tell Mrs NQ when she catches you looking at TSF...sorry babe, I swear I thought I was watching porn!
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Re: all the talk about what the IRA etc did in the past - what the hell does that have to do with this attack? Is that meant to be some sort of comfort to the victims? It's completely fucking irrelevant to this discussion.
What we have today is a groups like ISIS inspired by Islam pushing that ideology with the use of political violence. Why is that so hard to admit? Why do so many people immediately jump to the defense of Islam when innocent people have been murdered in cold blood?
As @Baron-Silas-Greenback points out the ideologies behind terrorist groups in the past were roundly criticised. But when it comes to ISIS we have to ignore the toxic ideology they are pushing because racism or something.
It's getting pretty tiresome to be honest. Every attack follows the same pattern. Innocent people slaughtered by someome yelling Allahu Akbar. People say "shit that's horrible, Islam has some serious problems that need addressing". A bunch of other people shout them down with name calling while pointing to other examples of violence that are completely irrelevant. Nothing changes, and then we have the next attack. It's been done to death on here already.
Ferners in London