French Politics



  • French election just got interesting , the socialist party has got humiliated with 65% of the vote counted. The front runner is ....interesting

    https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.thelocal.fr/20170131/whos-the-older-woman-in-presidential-hopeful-macrons-life/amp





  • @jegga

    Not really a spanking for the left tho' as Malanchon, who is a left wing nutter & was part of the Socialists, got 19%. So it was more a spanking for anyone with a party. Been a big clean out of the ol;d school corupt guys - Sarko didn't even get a run, Fillion shit on etc.

    I quite like their way of doing it, you get to vote crazy 1st up - eg 20% go Alt Right, 25% go hard left. Then once you've got that out of your system you vote sane in the final. Usually.

    Euro just went thru the roof on the result.

    The level of Russian interference against Macron will be huge in the next 2 weeks. It was already big, but now it'll be off the charts.



  • @gollum said in French Politics:

    @jegga

    Not really a spanking for the left tho' as Malanchon, who is a left wing nutter & was part of the Socialists, got 19%. So it was more a spanking for anyone with a party. Been a big clean out of the ol;d school corupt guys - Sarko didn't even get a run, Fillion shit on etc.

    I quite like their way of doing it, you get to vote crazy 1st up - eg 20% go Alt Right, 25% go hard left. Then once you've got that out of your system you vote sane in the final. Usually.

    Euro just went thru the roof on the result.

    The level of Russian interference against Macron will be huge in the next 2 weeks. It was already big, but now it'll be off the charts.

    How many countries do you think a guy who married to his former high school teacher who is 24 year older than him could run for president?

    Imagine what the uk or us press would do with that?



  • @jegga said in French Politics:

    How many countries do you think a guy who married to his former high school teacher who is 24 year older than him could run for president?

    Imagine what the uk or us press would do with that?

    Yeah, I really like the French attitude to sex & politics, the idea that polititians who have power & charisma wont put it in some odd places is just stupid so they are totally relaxed with it. Mitterand pretty openly fucked half of France. Didn't affect his ability to govern at all. Same with Bill Clinton. I'm more worried by a guy with power & charisma who doesn't occasionally fuck a secretary. Mike Pence creeps me out no end.



  • @gollum Mike Pence calls his wife " mother".

    I don't know how to upload a vomiting gif to my phone.



  • @jegga

    And refuses to drink at any event his wife is not at. And will not have dinner with any woman alone.

    I would not even raise an eyebrow if it came out he & his wife had 4 chained mexican women in a cellar at home & Mike did them every Tuesday while wearing a shock collar controlled by his wife/mum



  • @gollum said in French Politics:

    @jegga

    And refuses to drink at any event his wife is not at. And will not have dinner with any woman alone.

    I would not even raise an eyebrow if it came out he & his wife had 4 chained mexican women in a cellar at home & Mike did them every Tuesday while wearing a shock collar controlled by his wife/mum

    Im quoting that because you put far too much thought into that and it'll probably be used as evidence someday . Did you type it wearing the skin of you last victim? Type y or n please, we don't need details.



  • @gollum said in French Politics:

    @jegga

    And refuses to drink at any event his wife is not at. And will not have dinner with any woman alone.

    I would not even raise an eyebrow if it came out he & his wife had 4 chained mexican women in a cellar at home & Mike did them every Tuesday while wearing a shock collar controlled by his wife/mum

    alt text



  • @jegga

    http://www.gq.com/story/affair-robert-bentley-alabama-governor

    American politics is nothing but Republican familiy values guys (usually from Alabama or one of the Carolinas) being, at best, bummed by a rent boy, from there is gets worse. The more "pro family values" they are, the higher the chance of something very non-vanilla lurking in the closet. Pence is so tightly wound I was actually scaling it back a bit

    The French is just "I drove my scotter to the marriot & fucked a passing supermodel, c'est bon" & everyone shrugs & goes "can't argue with that"



  • @gollum yeah I remember one of the French presidents dying and his wife and mistress both turning up to the funeral like it was the most natural thing in the world. The Italians put them to shame , Netflix has a doco about Berlosconi I probably won't bother watching , they also elected Cicciolona to parliament ffs.



  • @jegga Hmm Berlesconi



  • @Catogrande

    FOUR time elected Italian PM.

    Alas, he was shit, but it had nothing to do with his repeatedly humping anything that moved or occasionally crossing the line into "she seems a bit young. And trafficked"



  • Yeah no one here gives a shit about his wife, they don't see it as much different then a fellah with a younger model really. It wouldn't be my choice but

    Fillion did bloody well considering he is currently up on charges for paying half his family public money to do bugger all. That being said Le Pen is under investigation for using European funds for her campaign and also for inciting some racist stuff, hard to keep up with exactly what with her. Didn't hurt her too much. There is a list kicking round twitter of russian twitter accounts that were all experts in US politics that have suddenly all become experts in French politics.

    What is interesting is that Macron has done in 1 year what it has taken the FN 40 years to do. As of last night Melanchon was not conceding either, though not checked yet today if he has finally got the old abacus out and realised he got beat.

    I think we have 1 debate now and 2 weeks till the second round. All the other candidates except Melanchon have urged their parties to support Macron. The funny thing here is we now have an investment banker and a lawyer from the richest suburb in all of France battling it out to see who can seem the most working class.

    Vive le 5'ième république!



  • @jegga said in French Politics:

    @gollum Mike Pence calls his wife " mother".

    alt text


  • Banned

    Given that there is a historic opportunity to elect the country's first female president, I'm sure the feminists will be strongly behind Le Pen. Or not.



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel said in French Politics:

    Given that there is a historic opportunity to elect the country's first female president, I'm sure the feminists will be strongly behind Le Pen. Or not.

    I think she'd be fine from a feminist point of view wouldn't she? And a lot do genuinely sem to be backing her.

    Its only in the states being hard right means you also hate women. Her father thought women were for breeding & cooking but shes "normal". Theres no banning abortion, pulling all funding for smear tests ec that the right in the US runs on.

    Same deal with Theresa May, you can run right & not try take away basic female rights, in the US they just choose not to.



  • @gollum said in French Politics:

    Its only in the states being hard right means you also hate women.

    Well that is some grade 'A' bullshit straight from the far left wing activist handbook.



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  • @Rancid-Schnitzel I didn't realise you'd been banned RS. Chapeau!


  • Banned

    @Catogrande said in French Politics:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel I didn't realise you'd been banned RS. Chapeau!

    You must have been offline those days. When you get banned you get a rather large red "banned" banner beside every one of your posts.

    All I can say is don't mess with this mod. I won't reveal his name only that he likes KFC and horses 🙂



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel said in French Politics:

    @Catogrande said in French Politics:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel I didn't realise you'd been banned RS. Chapeau!

    You must have been offline those days. When you get banned you get a rather large red "banned" banner beside every one of your posts.

    All I can say is don't mess with this mod. I won't reveal his name only that he likes KFC and horses 🙂

    to be fair, isn't that like, everyone?





  • Le Pen has been caught plagiarizing a speech from Fillion. She is saying it was an homage to his remarks.

    http://www.lemonde.fr/election-presidentielle-2017/video/2017/05/02/en-images-marine-le-pen-copie-un-discours-de-francois-fillon_5120898_4854003.html

    Oh and the guy who stepped up to take her spot as head of the FN lasted 3 days before having to step down to defend some mild holocaust denial from 2000.

    Also the EU is now clipping her Salary saying she has 5 million to pay back that was used illegally.

    Debate tomorrow night. The Russians are running out of time to get anything on Macron. Not that they are not trying apparently. Here in Paris I am constantly been giving flyers for Macron, but nothing for Le Pen. Not sure if its because of where I work and live or if she has given up on the western suburbs.

    Polls holding firm with Macron showing a 20% lead.



  • @mooshld As someone in France can you give us some insight into these candidates? Not speaking French and not trusting many of the articles I read makes things a little complicated to understand. Is Le Pen really an overt racist or is she really more of a Trump like figure? I understand Macron is pretty centrist but that he is trying to court the leftist vote. Is there any chance the polls could be wrong and we could have a surprise Le Pen victory or are French people generally outright happy to say they support Le Pen in public? Those protests today looked horrendous, setting police on fire the new strategy to fight fascism, will be sad to see that catch on around the world.



  • @Rembrandt
    Well its complicated. First lets get this out there. Neither of them are working class. Le Pen is born into a political dynasty. While Macron had doctors for parents.

    Le Pen is in my view not really a Trump like figure, she is a lawyer that spent her career working for her Father as head of the FN. I think its safe to say there is not much debate about the fact her father is a anti-semite and a racist. But this is the internet so I am sure someone will be along soon to dispute that. A few years back she ousted him from the party in an attempt to distance the party from the personality. They allegedly don't speak much since all that. I think the media paint her like Trump due to some of the shared policy ideas, but personality and background wise they could not be more different. People will say they support Le Pen but usually caveat it with they want a change from the normal big parties.

    Marcon, frames himself as ni droit, ni gauche (Neither left or right) His past kind of reflects this he worked for the Rothschild investment bank. Allegedly did very well then chucked it all in to become an adviser to the socialist government. He worked in the ministry of Finance and hated how inefficient it all was. So started his own movement. It has only been around for 1 year. At the start it was just a website with not much information. Just before the first round they released a manifesto. It has some things to appeal to both sides but is pretty light on detail. He is a bit like Trump in that he has never held any elected office. I'm not really sure if he is a centrist he hates that title apparently, or generally does not care about the political spectrum as he claims and just wants to take the best ideas and try and make them work.

    The protests here in Paris were not really about the election, they were may day protests, we have them every year. All the big unions here, and some are massive. Have huge marches in Paris for labour day and normally some rebel rouses use it as cover to start some shit.

    Its been an interesting few days here Le Pen is all about this outsider image and she has probably taken it a bit too far. While Macron probably needs to be seen as more of an outsider.

    An example was Macron went to Amiens where Whirlpool are due to mothball a factory. They already have the replacement online in Poland so its a done deal. Macron went and met with the owners and the union to try and figure out a way they could reuse the factory or protect some of the jobs. Le Pen showed up as well and had an impromptu rally in the car park with the workers, promising to force them to keep the factory open. Then tried to enter the factory only to be turned away. It all looked very dramatic but the truth is she never told them she was even coming so had no meetings booked. The owners were on the news saying they would have been happy to speak to her if she would just call to plan a time.

    Can she win? Umm if the polls are wrong they have to be wrong by 20% I am not a polling expert but the ones on TV say her best chance would be absenteeism. and a lot of it.



  • @mooshld said in French Politics:

    Polls holding firm with Macron showing a 20% lead.

    Polls, schmolls.

    A cynic might say "it's not even close" ...



  • @booboo said in French Politics:

    @mooshld said in French Politics:

    Polls holding firm with Macron showing a 20% lead.

    Polls, schmolls.

    A cynic might say "it's not even close" ...

    They were out by half a % in the run off vote.

    Biggest polling error in the US election was around 9% in one state, on average the error was around 3-4% in states they missed. In the big states it was tighter, polls had Clinton winning Florida by 0.7% (not 7%, 0.7%), she lost by 2%. Thats pretty standard error. Nationally the polls got it about right, they had her by 2-3, she won the (meaningless) popular by 2-3

    So 20% does feel um.. unclose



  • Debate just over. Felt like a child trying to argue with their teacher to me. But that could be my bias.

    Was very fiery, great format.

    Will write more tomorrow as it's getting late here.



  • Line of the night has to be when Le Pen said that France will be led by a woman, either her or Angela Merkel.. genius



  • @mooshld said in French Politics:

    Debate just over. Felt like a child trying to argue with their teacher to me. But that could be my bias.

    Was very fiery, great format.

    Will write more tomorrow as it's getting late here.

    Let me guess,,, the candidate you dont like was the child?



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in French Politics:

    Line of the night has to be when Le Pen said that France will be led by a woman, either her or Angela Merkel.. genius

    Whether it has any validity or not, that is a great line.



  • I wrote this post once already but realised that 90% of the debate is of literally no interest to you guys on here. All you probably whan to know is what was said about Europe and what was said about terrorism, maybe the economy as well I'm not sure on that? But if I am wrong and there are other topics that were touched on that you are interested in I can try and provide a synopsis of what was said. It was pretty diverse and covered a lot of stuff some of it very low level and detailed.

    There were two very different approaches taken to the debate. Macron came to talk policy and to talk down to Le Pen.

    Le Pen came to interrogate Macron on his policies and try and paint him as part of the previous government.

    First some background, It got ugly and the moderators had no real control the whole debate. A lot of interruptions and a lot of talking over the top of each other. The format of French debates is the 2 candidates face each other at a desk with moderators there is no live audience just the cameras and the prepared questions which they both are aware of. Le Pen showed up with piles of folders and was constantly shuffling them and looking for things but only produced about two things that I can remember from them. Macron came with a notepad and a pen. Because of the format, the zingy one liners and what not that you get in the US debates, tend to fall pretty flat when you don't have an audience to reveal in you sick burn. Not to say there weren't a few good ones they just don't score you points like they would if you had someone there to actually laugh at them. Le Pens about a woman being in charge of France was funny, as was Macron thanking Le Pen on behalf of the gay community in France for all she had done for them. It did get personal though Le Pen denied she was a racist. Macron denied he was an elitist.

    Le Pen tried to paint Macron as complicit in the failings of the last government. But she didn't come well prepared to this discussion, and economics is not something you want to spar with Macron about. He repeatedly corrected her figures and had to explain to her some basic principles to her. This is when he started using his quiet big boy voice. He also started pushing her for her policies but she just went back on the attack. This continued throughout the debate. So he asked if this was an interview or a debate.

    On Europe Le Pen got herself a bit stuck she is now thinking of having 2 currencies for France. Macron tore this idea to bits. Rumor has it her party came up with this idea over the weekend and it showed as she couldn't even answer basic questions about how it would work. Macron wants to reform the EU but never got into how or what he wanted to actually do with this. Annoyingly he was never pressed on this either. Le Pen wants out of the Schengen treaty. Thinks an extra 10000 customs officers should be able to secure the border. Accused Macron of not believing they did a good job, when he said that it may be more difficult then that to secure all the French borders.

    Terrorism.
    This was interesting. Macron said something which apparently will have lost him a few points. He said that France needs to take some responsibility for the terror attacks carried out by French nationals. Le Pen was outraged by this. I'm not sure why. He also said he would dismantle any organisation that promoted hate.

    Le Pen had waited all debate for this. She hoed in with a lot of prepared rhetoric but never gave very much detail about her plans other then closing the border, and restricting immigration. She mentioned closing mosques, youth groups, sports teams or anything that was being used as a cover for radicalisation. She did mention removing the nationality of people involved in terror attacks. Macron asked her how concerned did she honestly think suicide attackers would be by their loss of French Nationality.

    If Le Pens tactic was to get under Macrons skin and try and get him to react angrily. It failed, he never took the bait. It was not a knock out for Macron though, Le Pen gave so little detail that he couldn't really attack her policies too much and he left a lot of stuff very vague himself.

    Where this matters is with the far left voters of Melanchon. He is refusing to back either candidate, (Though he has stated he would never vote for Le Pen) He had 19% of the first round. That is who they needed to try and win over last night. I had a wee look on reddit and twitter and it seems Macron may have just seemed more presidential to these people. Though I never no if you can trust when someone on the internet says they were an undecided voter, so take that with a grain of salt.

    As I said earlier Le Pen constantly interrupting and trying to be funny and trying to talk over Macron looked like a calculated tactic, for me it didn't work she came off as a petulant child. It also gave him room For Macron to shoosh her then talk down to her. As you may be aware being condescending is almost a national pastime here.

    Finally. I have tried to write this as factually as I could but as I said earlier I have a dog in the fight and have a preference. So if you want to reply just to smugly point out all the places my bias is showing you can save yourself the 1s and 0s. But if you have any real questions or are interested in my opinions I will be happy to offer them.



  • @mooshld Your bias was obvious.

    That's 7936 0's and 1 'a well spent.



  • @mooshld Thanks for the detailed recounting of the debate.



  • @mooshld Thanks mate. Very interesting. For me as a very interested outsider it seems that neither candidate has come out with too much detail at all, not just this debate. Just a load of "This can't continue" sort of vagueness. I also can't decide who I want to win as I quite like the idea of Le Pen throwing a further spanner in the EU debate which may be good for our own exit negotiations, but do I really want to see what was ostensibly such a far right party in power and do I trust them not to revert to mean? The there is Macron, what does he stand for and what are his credentials?

    As I say, very interesting and please keep up the good work in providing a Gallic view of things.



  • @mooshld cheers for that, great to have an insight and as sad as it might be these days I trust an anonymous tsf bloke's telling of this far more than any media outlet today



  • @Catogrande said in French Politics:

    @mooshld Thanks mate. Very interesting. For me as a very interested outsider it seems that neither candidate has come out with too much detail at all, not just this debate. Just a load of "This can't continue" sort of vagueness. I also can't decide who I want to win as I quite like the idea of Le Pen throwing a further spanner in the EU debate which may be good for our own exit negotiations, but do I really want to see what was ostensibly such a far right party in power and do I trust them not to revert to mean? The there is Macron, what does he stand for and what are his credentials?

    As I say, very interesting and please keep up the good work in providing a Gallic view of things.

    There were some details on some of Macrons Policy but they were things about certain taxes and what not and changes to some systems that would not be interesting to you.

    Brexit was brought up and it was interesting Le Pen thinks France pays 9 billion a year and would use that money to revamp retirement and healthcare, sound familiar? In fact the net figure is more like 4.5 billion according to Macron and the fact checkers. He also pointed out that the UK is now facing a rather large bill that even at its lowest estimate would take 10 years to recoup the savings. Assuming your economy doesn't shrink.

    She went on to call him a fear merchant. Which got them into a quite testy exchange where he accused her of being the high priestess of fear and the FN of spending decades of trying to profit of fear.


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