All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3



  • @Rapido said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    Davies has been stand out Lion in my mind.

    Peaked to perfection after an average (for him) season



  • @MN5 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @MN5 Can't afford Woodstocks?

    Na thats for scumbags from Upper Hutt

    Cody's here in UH thanks very much! Haha.



  • @Siam said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    World rugby's biggest game advertisement in the fallow years between world cups and is influenced by an insecure refereeing system but the gin swillers will be reminding themselves "controversy lasts far longer in the advertiser's eye than a pure spectacle, and think of the clicks we'll get!"

    Even the perpetrator knew he was offside playing at the ball!

    Still our beloved team only really have themselves to blame

    Taking nothing away from the Lions who will take more pride than us over the drawn series.

    It was a great series and none of us predicted it thus.

    one question though:

    Did it feel lucky to draw that?

    honest question from an unquestionably biased kiwi

    edit: The question was aimed at Lions supporters (lest I lose my arrogance)

    Honest answer? Yeah we were lucky in the end. Lucky on a couple of counts, firstly in that for much of the match we were outplayed and only some uncharacteristic balls ups from NZ kept us in the game. Later on we got nearer to parity and if you're there or thereabouts with 10 minutes to go you have to feel that you have a chance of nicking the game. So lucky but dissatisfied. Secondly the non penalty. I did think is was sort of accidental at least instinctive rather than deliberate, but to me it was definitely a penalty. Whether or not Barret would have slotted the kick is another matter and if he hadn't then you lot would just have had something else to make you spew🎣

    We rode our luck over two tests and overall the better team did not win, but that's the beauty of sport. Winning great but you watch because of the uncertainty.

    Gatland's legacy will go down as a two-time undefeated Lions head coach (a fact he has reminded us of a couple of times already) but in truth this time round he was very lucky. There was no cunning master plan to out-coach NZ. Fair play to him in Australia four years ago, he got that last game spot on though.



  • @Rugger-Quizzes said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @MN5 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @MN5 Can't afford Woodstocks?

    Na thats for scumbags from Upper Hutt

    Cody's here in UH thanks very much! Haha.

    Guaranteed winner at the Tote on a Fridee night.



  • @Catogrande Good post - and I'd much rather be spewing at Barrett for missing than feeling how I am now TBH.



  • @Catogrande I agree with everything you say but I think Gatland or someone , deserves some credit for their defensive system ,

    And you did have your moments in attack , and probably scored the try of the series ....... who wouldve thought ?



  • @mariner4life perhaps Winger is TJ's media guy....



  • I'm 2 days late reading this thread so I'll only make a few comments.

    I was high up in the stands in the corner where Jordie scored so had a good view of the other chances at the same end of the ground. Both BB and Laumape could have also scored tries as they were in gaps but fumbled under some defensive pressure. But no excuses for Savea - that was a definite try if he had caught the bloody ball. As many have said, if we had taken 1 or 2 of those chances the ABs would be well ahead at HT and in control of the game, as the Lions were never going to score multiple tries.

    The thing I was most pissed off about was that the officials let the Lions slow the game down all the time as not all the injuries seemed to be genuine. It was like watching a RL game when the support staff run onto the field at every opportunity. Read should have spoken to Poite about this too.

    Now for something about the Lions tour in general. I picked my father up from the airport earlier in the day as he had been working in Europe and was going to the game with me. He travelled back to NZ via London and was sitting next to a guy who was flying into Auckland to attend the 3rd test and flying back to the UK the following day - that's dedication. And at the test there was a South African guy (wearing his Bok colours) next to me who also flew to NZ especially for the game. That is what makes these tours unique so long may they continue.



  • it seems to me that the 1st half of game 3 was very similar to the 1st half of game 1, except in reverse - we created opportunities and didn't finish - just as the lions did first up. i think the scoreline of game 1 flattered us due to their missed opportunities, game 2 we were lucky to be as close as we were due to their giving away so many soft penalties while a man up, and game 3 the scoreline flattered them.
    the decisions to end games 2 and 3 were kind of opposites. game 2 was letter of the law correct, but awful in terms of how the game should be. game 3 was letter of the law incorrect, but that would be a shit way to win a game - and while he caught it, i don't think the guy was deliberately playing at it, it was just a reflex thing. i don't have a huge problem with either decision - can suck something up if it is letter of the law even though i disagree with the law, and can suck something up if it's letter of the law wrong but in the spirit of the game... bit galling to be on the wrong end of both situations, and a bit stink to have them deciding games, but ah well - game 2 we didn't deserve to be that close, and we had plenty of opportunities to take game 3 out of reach and didn't finish. overall just a great tour - great to see the improvement in the lions with each game and more time spent together - and great to see how our guys reacted to our depth and resolve being tested with both the 14 man game and all the injuries.

    our guys:
    how good is it to have the real aaron smith back?
    perenara looked to have turned the corner last year, now seems to have turned it back.
    jordie did well, as did laumape - but we still missed ben smith and crotty badly i think.
    our locks are just awesome.
    dagg was really good.
    rieko is a hell of a talent, but needs to go looking for work when the game isn't going his way.
    ALB a bit disappointing i guess, but not awful or anything.
    SBW - enough said about that already. his decision cost us.
    didn't get the same impact from our bench as usual - backline became too disjointed and too many guys looking to be the individual hero. forward impact i think was diminished purely because when you put wales england ireland and scotland together, their bench depth is pretty damn useful too, and evened us out.
    taylor - did really well around the park, but the lineouts were a clear step down. lucky for us their bloke was making errors too so that evened out.
    beauden - they looked after him pretty well really, but he still played okay mostly. i hate kicking the ball away on attack though, and he (and others) were guilty of that several times.

    their guys:
    all the forwards were pretty damn good, and all the damn tough loosies particularly. murray is very good. davies was really superb, probably man of the series from either team i think - i hadn't really seen that much of him previously, but he is all class. the outside backs (like ours except dagg) were patchy, as were sexton/farrell, but they all hung in there. the commitment from all the lions was bloody great to see, and warburton is an impressive fella i reckon. gatland is a very, very good coach too, despite the amount of crap he gets on here.
    12 years to have it happen again - can't bloody wait.



  • @reprobate

    Funny, I thought ALB was outstanding over all. Especially that first test



  • @Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @Pot-Hale said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @canefan said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @Pot-Hale said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @canefan said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    Garces and Poite shouldn't even be allowed to ref club rugby

    The headline doesn't match the content of the article. Since they don't have the transcript of what Garces said, they can't make that assertion. Nonetheless, I had heard Poite say Oui, Jerome on his way back to bring captains together and wondered what Garces had said.

    Poite made his decision of accidental on his view that the ball first hit Owens on the shoulder before he reflexively caught it with his left hand. That's what he is saying to Read.

    He played at it. Then, knowing he'd stuffed up he dropped it. The frogs shat the bed

    Yes, he played it. After it hit him on the shoulder is what Poite said.

    You do realise what you're saying right? That's hilarious. It's not a penalty because it hit him on the shoulder. He only played it after that, so no penalty. Duh, he played it! It didn't bounce off his shoulder and he let it go right? He caught it. Brilliantly Irish.

    You do understand the difference between me giving my own view of events and reporting what Poite said?



  • @Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    The thing I was most pissed off about was that the officials let the Lions slow the game down all the time as not all the injuries seemed to be genuine. It was like watching a RL game when the support staff run onto the field at every opportunity. Read should have spoken to Poite about this too.

    I noticed Poite was doing his best to move the Lions forwards to the lineout when they would go into a huddle - but unless he takes action and awards a free kick against them or whatever, then they paid very little attention. Certainly the second half was very much stop start which I'm sure was deliberate as the first half was played way too fast for the Lions pack - you could see it on their faces after 20 minutes that they were just hanging on. And the tactic definitely worked, the second half was totally different.



  • @taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    I hate halfbacks passing into a player to milk a penalty, IMO is is against the spirit of the game given most of the time they don't need to, I don't recall Smiths one alluded to above (but know he does it too) but I was fuming at Murray's one, was pathetic (as are many like that)

    I can't say for sure but I reckon a ref like Owens wouldn't have given that - Webb had clear passage to clear the ball and went out of his way to be impeded.



  • @Hooroo I thought he was passable, nothing more - mind you, after last year and the Samoa game I had pretty high expectations.



  • @taniwharugby

    I find this one strange as well. I think we as fans ( including Mex) are fully within our rights to blast the ref and say he cost us the series. I think the players and coaches should look at themselves and figure out how to take the ref out the game and that's exactly what they are doing. Not like the ABs were terrible, Poite and SBW hurt them bad. I thought by 3rd test they figured out how to beat rush defense but execution was poor but easily fixable. The result is what is but I think things like blaming Hansen for substituting Half back which the ABs have done for at least 13years is just silly.



  • Was referring to the ref issue post above.



  • Glass half empty - the series showed how reliant we are on certain key players, those players are getting older and a couple of forward injuries would expose our lack of depth. Winning easily in Super rugby isn't producing a style that will work against the top NH teams or players that are used to having to grind it out.

    Glass half full - what a great chance to review progress half-way between World Cups, the Lions gave us a great challenge and never buckled, we were made to work for every point. A few injuries has forced new players into the system, and they will really benefit in 2 years time for having had this baptism of fire.



  • @KiwiPie said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    Glass half empty - the series showed how reliant we are on certain key players, those players are getting older and a couple of forward injuries would expose our lack of depth.

    You could say the same about the Lions. There was a massive step down from the test side to the dirt trackers.

    For us, I'm pretty relaxed. Our tight forwards really stood up: arguably won the forward battle.
    Codie Taylor and Joe Moody were a long way away two years ago. None of them are older than 29 (Taylor), and still have a few years in the legs. All will be better for that experience.

    Again - we lost some key experience out there, fronted against the cream of the NH and failed to win 3-0 by some 'interesting' refereeing decisions and not taking some chances we would have previously. Give them more time in camp and I'm comfortable we'll keep stepping up.



  • @DMX said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @taniwharugby

    I find this one strange as well. I think we as fans ( including Mex) are fully within our rights to blast the ref and say he cost us the series. I think the players and coaches should look at themselves and figure out how to take the ref out the game and that's exactly what they are doing. Not like the ABs were terrible, Poite and SBW hurt them bad. I thought by 3rd test they figured out how to beat rush defense but execution was poor but easily fixable. The result is what is but I think things like blaming Hansen for substituting Half back which the ABs have done for at least 13years is just silly.

    I'm in the "ref didn't cost us the game camp" but in no way I'm of the opinion that criticism of his 78th min decisions should be shut down. That was the worst refereeing moment I can remember.

    I don't think he 'cost us the game' because I only give Beauden a 60% chance of slotting that the way he was kicking. Where as I give Julian as 100% costing us a try and I think Beauden has already blown a 95% gettable kick. Then add in the cumulative 50%ers that were blown periodically through the match.

    Up until 78 mins I thought Poite was good.

    But that decision (and process) was disgraceful.

    I now really doubt his moral fibre. He made a correct decision in real time, it was technically harsh on the guilty party but correct. He then allowed himself to go to the TMO to check foul play so that his already made decision could be taken away from his responsibility if possible, it couldn't, but then he allowed Garces to change his mind (incorrectly). He tried really, really, really hard to not have his decision be the 'series-deciding decision'. Very weak.

    I would think that would set alarm bells off in WR Refereeing HQ. This wasn't a fast real time mistake, it was a failure of courage.

    However I do not currently have faith in the Referring HQ. Their treatment of Joubert was a disgrace to the sport when they hung him out to dry after he made a brave but incorrect decision in the RWC in very similar circumstances.

    To be contradictory, I do find the analysising of every single refereeing decision in a game on social media etc to be pointless. It's a quick game with decisions made in real time, fans need to just get on with it. Where I think this is bad is that it was done slowly, looking for every opportunity to back out of a decision.

    I'm not actually salty about the series result. Getting the penalty and Beauden flukeing it over may have been the worst result for me, if it just papers over the cracks of our obvious weakness. But I'm soft as Rocky Rockvottom says (I think) after our back to back world cups.



  • @Bovidae Pretty much saved me posting.

    I too was at the game and it was magnificent sporting occasion. My brother had some sports ears and it was very obvious that while Poite was telling the Lions what they should do there were no repercussions when they totally ignored him.

    Everyone agrees we dominated the first half. Gatland clearly got his troops together and said you've played shit - they're bullying you but your still in this and can steal it. Stop trying to play the AB's at their game and slow the game down and wait for the penalties to come. The AB's are over eager and the mistakes will come.
    and come they did - right from the kick off. That penalty to get them to within three - you could see the belief grow in the Lions. Then AB's butchered another try and Kaino was (rightly IMO) binned and we lost the plot a bit.

    Meanwhile Roundtree? was on the field every stoppage coaching the players chipping away at the ref - it was fucking annoying but quite effective. He, Gatland and Itoje have faces that just cry out to be slapped.

    You could see the Lions stealing it becoming more real from about 20 minutes out so the end result was no real surprise - albeit deeply unsatisfying.

    As for the ground itself. Monumental experience Worth every cent all 50,000 of them. I've read a bit about how the Lions fans out-passioned our support and we have to learn from them. Well while that is true I think by the 3rd test we Kiwi's had learned and certainly in my part of the ground the Lions were no more vocal than the locals. Every time a Lions chant went up or we felt the AB's needed our support the crowd were up to it. It took many cleansing ales and until about 3am before I got my voice back.

    So while it feels like a series lost, we have an opportunity to learn from this. We're not as good as we thought we were, but we're still pretty good and unlike some I think Hansen will take a lot out of this and we will be all the better for it come Japan 2019.

    Great night, great test shit result



  • @dogmeat I use Sports Ears at the game too, specifically to listen to the ref/ARs/TMO. They are great to hear the communication between the officials and ref with the players. I noted that Poite and Garces spoke between themselves in French a few times which should be a no-no. The most obvious example was when Garces obviously changed Poite's mind at the end, because all Poite did was listen.



  • I realise my post above might seem a bit churlish to Lions supporters.

    Full credit it was a game of two halves (and we should have won both of them! 🙂 )
    Seriously though everything has already been said. the lions team definitely atoned for their embarrassments on and off the field in 2005 and while I think they were a little lucky to draw the series they were very effective in every aspect of their play and deserve everyone's admiration. The fact that I got over the "loss" pretty quicky whereas I normally can't even drink after the AB's goes down says a lot.

    Meanwhile their fans were as always magnificent



  • Quelle surprise; Sinckler arrested in Auckland. Seems to be an angry young man.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/94593098/lions-player-kyle-sinckler-arrested-after-night-out-in-auckland



  • The highest rated rugby game on Fox Sports Australia this season was All Blacks vs Lions test 3 - over 200,000 viewers



  • @antipodean at least he wasn't 'mugged'



  • @KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    The highest rated rugby game on Fox Sports Australia this season was All Blacks vs Lions test 3 - over 200,000 viewers

    I wonder how many of those are Australian born? Probably not many 🙂



  • The other thing I forgot to mention on Poite - how many fucking times do you hear him coaching the lions? "Back, back" was on repeat throughout the match, heard an extraordinary amount of times with no follow up action - apart from the odd couple of times where he actually physically coached them (e.g. the one where he had to run into the ruck and make the lions player bind so he wasn't offside while Murray kicked).



  • @Bones Strange turnaround given he was uninterested in coaching England:

    "I'm the referee, not the coach, you have to find a solution," after flanker James Haskell asked for clarification.





  • Jonathan Davies deservedly named Man of the Series for the Lions.

    And after the dust has settled and thoughts turn to pre-season training and Autumn Internationals, were the omitted and injured missed?

    It was unfortunate that Hogg was injured out of the series, but to be fair he wasn't playing well prior to his departure. Would Brown have offered anything better than Williams? I don't think so.

    Would the Gray brothers and Launchbury have made the Test side? Maybe Launchbury.

    When the Lions went away from 'Warrenball' to 'Eddieball' I think we would have been better served having the original - Ford - not the imitation - Sexton.

    And what we really missed was an out and out speedster like Christian Wade or Johnnie May who could have finished some of the chances we created.

    But overall the squad selection seems to have been close to spot on.



  • @antipodean said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    This game really appears to have been one massive cockup by match officials:
    http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/16057/10943668/officials-wrong-to-allow-lions-star-alun-wyn-jones-back-on-after-hia

    Was really uncomfortable with AWJ coming back on. Kind of Lonergan shuffle uncomfortable.

    Add that to the two head knocks Lawes suffered and the Lions gave the impression (this may be unfair) that they were somewhat old skool with regard to concussion.



  • @booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @antipodean said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    This game really appears to have been one massive cockup by match officials:
    http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/16057/10943668/officials-wrong-to-allow-lions-star-alun-wyn-jones-back-on-after-hia

    Was really uncomfortable with AWJ coming back on. Kind of Lonergan shuffle uncomfortable.

    Add that to the two head knocks Lawes suffered and the Lions gave the impression (this may be unfair) that they were somewhat old skool with regard to concussion.

    What about Read? Took a knock to the head that required attention but didn't leave the field.

    Are there on field assessments now?

    At the elite level do we need to go down the boxing / MMA route where the Commission where the event is taking place employs an independent medical team (well independent from the competitors) which is responsible for all things medical and has the final say?

    World rugby is responsible for officiating. Time to be responsible for medicall too?



  • the other one that concerned me was test 1... kaino subbed off, no mention of HIA.... sam cane goes down injured shortly after... then it turns out kaino is off for a HIA? seemed a bit dubious to me at the time, though could have been perfectly innocent.
    don't want to see it used as a tactical tool.



  • @reprobate well it appeared when Poite had had enough of Sexton being tended to (for what appeared an ankle injury) he told them to take him off a for a HIA....

    @MiketheSnow yeah I wondered the same with Read, although was not as bad as AWJ knock.

    TBH, I am surprised more hasnt been made of the Kaino-AWJ incident



  • @taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    TBH, I am surprised more hasnt been made of the Kaino-AWJ incident

    That's because of the SOB-Naholo incident. We were worse off because Kaino got carded and SOB didn't.
    And lets be honest, the refs call at the end completely stole the limelight.



  • @mimic said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    TBH, I am surprised more hasnt been made of the Kaino-AWJ incident

    That's because of the SOB-Naholo incident. We were worse off because Kaino got carded and SOB didn't.

    Yeah I know thats why, just surprised thier media didnt jump on it and make out it was worse given some of the thuggery we get accused of...woulda received a week or 2 off at Super rugby I reckon.



  • @Bones Bourbon? Well that's a mystery solved - I had wondered who was leaving all the empty biscuit wrappers in Dunorlan Park



  • @Disgusted-of-TW Yup that's me - I only eat the biscuit part though, so can offer you my leftover cream if you like?



  • @DMX said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    @taniwharugby

    I find this one strange as well. I think we as fans ( including Mex) are fully within our rights to blast the ref and say he cost us the series. I think the players and coaches should look at themselves and figure out how to take the ref out the game and that's exactly what they are doing. Not like the ABs were terrible, Poite and SBW hurt them bad. I thought by 3rd test they figured out how to beat rush defense but execution was poor but easily fixable. The result is what is but I think things like blaming Hansen for substituting Half back which the ABs have done for at least 13years is just silly.

    On the halfback substitution, sometimes it is better to leave the guy out there who is playing well especially when the pressure is on. The Ireland test a few years ago when Hansen left Aaron Smith on for all 83 minutes, his accuracy and speed was a huge reason why we created space and were able to make metres like we did.



  • @reprobate said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

    the other one that concerned me was test 1... kaino subbed off, no mention of HIA.... sam cane goes down injured shortly after... then it turns out kaino is off for a HIA? seemed a bit dubious to me at the time, though could have been perfectly innocent.
    don't want to see it used as a tactical tool.

    Yeah - during that 3rd game, I seem to recall getting a little suspicious about some of the players going off for HIA (/rest).
    I'm sure I was just being paranoid (and just nervous as all fuck, imagining all sorts of cloak-and-dagger shit)... but it would be an ideal foil against the ABs strength of keeping a game up-tempo... you get to slow the overall game down, plus a player gets a bit of a rest.


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