Roger Tuivasa-Sheck



  • Do the ABs need him for the 2019 RWC ?
    For the back three, they have : Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, NMS, Jordie Barrett, DMac, Naholo, Ioane, Savea, Havili, Duffie and Tamanivalu, plus maybe Nanai, Alaimalo, Will Jordan and Caleb Clarke if they can step up.



  • @cgrant said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Do the ABs need him for the 2019 RWC ?
    For the back three, they have : Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, NMS, Jordie Barrett, DMac, Naholo, Ioane, Savea, Havili, Duffie and Tamanivalu, plus maybe Nanai, Alaimalo, Will Jordan and Caleb Clarke if they can step up.

    0_1509179331545_FB_IMG_1509169929436.jpg



  • Can’t see him making the switch let alone getting near RWC19.



  • The ABs need RTS just like the Blues needed Benji Marshall....



  • @gunner said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Can’t see him making the switch let alone getting near RWC19.

    Why not? Duffie made the switch and became an AB so all bets are off. He'd probably want to try and break his Warriors contract and start next year if he really wanted to make 2019 though.



  • Just a bargaining position statement.

    I don't watch much league so I can't comment on his potential value. But we've got a good stock of fullbacks at present.



  • @cgrant said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Do the ABs need him for the 2019 RWC ?
    For the back three, they have : Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, NMS, Jordie Barrett, DMac, Naholo, Ioane, Savea, Havili, Duffie and Tamanivalu, plus maybe Nanai, Alaimalo, Will Jordan and Caleb Clarke if they can step up.

    No



  • @sammyc said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @cgrant said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Do the ABs need him for the 2019 RWC ?
    For the back three, they have : Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, NMS, Jordie Barrett, DMac, Naholo, Ioane, Savea, Havili, Duffie and Tamanivalu, plus maybe Nanai, Alaimalo, Will Jordan and Caleb Clarke if they can step up.

    No

    Bit of a long winded rambling post but you made your point eventually I guess



  • @cgrant said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Do the ABs need him for the 2019 RWC ?
    For the back three, they have : Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, NMS, Jordie Barrett, DMac, Naholo, Ioane, Savea, Havili, Duffie and Tamanivalu, plus maybe Nanai, Alaimalo, Will Jordan and Caleb Clarke if they can step up.

    Who says he will play at the back?

    We didn't need, as in really need, Brad Thorn either.

    Edit: I see him as a five-eighth or centre in union. A place we already have one league convert, not in his league position.



  • Do the AB's need him? No. Do the AB's really need any League converts? Probably no.

    Wouls it be nice to see more League stars switch back to real rugby 🎣 ? Yes.



  • @nepia I just don’t see it happening is all, with all the crazy talent we already have in the outside backs.

    Although I would have said the same about Laumape and Duffie 2 years ago.

    He needs to switch by Xmas if he’s any chance at all of making it, and that’d be the easy part.

    But like I said, won’t happen.



  • Definitely need him. Cupboard in NZ outside backs is barer than bare.



  • @sapetyvi said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Do the AB's need him? No. Do the AB's really need any League converts? Probably no.

    Wouls it be nice to see more League stars switch back to real rugby 🎣 ? Yes.

    They may not need him looking at it from here , but things change quickly

    if he did switch and was good enough you pick him , if not, you dont , no need to over think it,

    I think the transition would not be that complicated for him being an outside back from a rugby background though.



  • He could switch, fail to make the All Blacks, Get a decent contract overseas and play for Samoa.



  • @billy-tell said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Definitely need him. Cupboard in NZ outside backs is barer than bare.

    Chicken Little!

    We don't 'need' him, be good if he gave it a crack, but he won't.



  • If he did make the switch , ( which he probably won't , but we don't know what he is thinking )

    I would put my money on him to wear the black jersey at some stage at some capacity, but there is a big difference in being a fringe player , in and out , than being a regular selection in the 22 .

    Far better league player than laumape and Duffy so it's not a long shot .



  • @kiwiinmelb said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Far better league player than laumape and Duffy so it's not a long shot .

    Anyone else starting to wonder why average league players, and in Lousi's case, worse than average, are making a damn good fist of things in Union. An indication of the relative strength of the sports?



  • @crazy-horse said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @kiwiinmelb said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Far better league player than laumape and Duffy so it's not a long shot .

    Anyone else starting to wonder why average league players, and in Lousi's case, worse than average, are making a damn good fist of things in Union. An indication of the relative strength of the sports?

    It cuts both ways. Will Chambers was a below average rugby player for the Reds who is now a Kangaroo and Queensland Origin rep.

    In Lousi's case I think his skillset/bodyshape suits Union more than League (plus you have to factor in the Warriors culture which explains Laumape too) - Benji Marshall would be an example of the opposite.



  • Benji was past his best before date way before he took a shot a rugby and he didn't really give it a decent go. But I get your point. Agree too about body shapes and skill sets - especially when it comes to Louisi and Duffy.

    On a side note, I would love to see Asofa Solomona come back to Union. Imagine what he could achieve given Lousi's success.



  • @crazy-horse said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @kiwiinmelb said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Far better league player than laumape and Duffy so it's not a long shot .

    Anyone else starting to wonder why average league players, and in Lousi's case, worse than average, are making a damn good fist of things in Union. An indication of the relative strength of the sports?

    Because we only notice the ones that make it, and soon forget the ones that fade from view?

    I suspect it is also that players make the shift if they have some promise of being better in the other code. The Kiwi kids usually played union at school, so will know if it suits their skills and body more.



  • @kiwimurph said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @crazy-horse said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @kiwiinmelb said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Far better league player than laumape and Duffy so it's not a long shot .

    Anyone else starting to wonder why average league players, and in Lousi's case, worse than average, are making a damn good fist of things in Union. An indication of the relative strength of the sports?

    It cuts both ways. Will Chambers was a below average rugby player for the Reds who is now a Kangaroo and Queensland Origin rep.

    In Lousi's case I think his skillset/bodyshape suits Union more than League (plus you have to factor in the Warriors culture which explains Laumape too) - Benji Marshall would be an example of the opposite.

    To be fair , chambers was nothing special at the time in league either , he was nowhere near origin level then ,bit of a skinny kid that lacked confidence

    that came later when he beefed up and became a far more physical player like he is now



  • @chester-draws said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @crazy-horse said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @kiwiinmelb said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Far better league player than laumape and Duffy so it's not a long shot .

    Anyone else starting to wonder why average league players, and in Lousi's case, worse than average, are making a damn good fist of things in Union. An indication of the relative strength of the sports?

    Because we only notice the ones that make it, and soon forget the ones that fade from view?

    I suspect it is also that players make the shift if they have some promise of being better in the other code. The Kiwi kids usually played union at school, so will know if it suits their skills and body more.

    There's very little difference ( if any at all ) in body shapes between the codes these days. That explains why Nelson whatshisface that @Canes4life was pumping in between going on about Ardie Saveas incredible height plays league as opposed to union.



  • @crazy-horse I don't think Laumape and Duffie are really average league players. Laumape was class but injured all the time, Duffie held down a spot with the Storm and would have played more matches if not injured at both club and rep level.

    I think the key with these recent successful 'switchers' is that they were rugby players first, switched to league and came back.

    Did anyone see RTS play rugby back in the day?



  • Apparently there are only about 3000 or so schoolboy league players in NZ vs about 25000 in rugby...supposedly higher numbers of girls play league at school than boys.

    I expect RTS could well excel at rugby but might take longer than he has IF he was aiming for the RWC.

    Lousi and Duffie were poor when they came back, but time in the sport and game time thier natural ability is shining.



  • Like RTS, a lot of schoolboys play both codes while at school.

    RTS went to Otahuhu College which is not one of the top rugby schools in Auckland. He played for the NZSS though.

    Here is the team with some familiar names:
    http://www.allblacks.com/Teams/Schools/Previous/602

    Check out his player profile (i.e., favourite team and future ambition).



  • @nepia said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @crazy-horse I don't think Laumape and Duffie are really average league players. Laumape was class but injured all the time, Duffie held down a spot with the Storm and would have played more matches if not injured at both club and rep level.

    I think the key with these recent successful 'switchers' is that they were rugby players first, switched to league and came back.

    Did anyone see RTS play rugby back in the day?

    The RTS we saw at the roosters , I would be pretty confident would make a good fist of it as a rugby winger ,

    Very quick , could beat defenders with a step , good defender , good under the high ball ,

    Hasnt looked so sharp this year though , not sure if that is getting over the injury , or the Warriors curse , or a bit of both .



  • @chester-draws said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @cgrant said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Do the ABs need him for the 2019 RWC ?
    For the back three, they have : Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, NMS, Jordie Barrett, DMac, Naholo, Ioane, Savea, Havili, Duffie and Tamanivalu, plus maybe Nanai, Alaimalo, Will Jordan and Caleb Clarke if they can step up.

    Who says he will play at the back?

    We didn't need, as in really need, Brad Thorn either.

    Edit: I see him as a five-eighth or centre in union. A place we already have one league convert, not in his league position.

    From memory, he played union on the wing and was beating defenders at will (it was the highlights reel). Even though he played for Otahu, he easily stood out when up against the big guns.
    He could easily play 14 and play the wing/fullback role. Although, I'm not so sure on his ability under the high ball with pressure, and his kicking game. His defence will definitely be a step up on JB/DMac.

    People also forget that he is a converted fullback (he started off on the wing in league), who is now regarded one of the best in his position.



  • @mimic said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @chester-draws said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @cgrant said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Do the ABs need him for the 2019 RWC ?
    For the back three, they have : Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, NMS, Jordie Barrett, DMac, Naholo, Ioane, Savea, Havili, Duffie and Tamanivalu, plus maybe Nanai, Alaimalo, Will Jordan and Caleb Clarke if they can step up.

    Who says he will play at the back?

    We didn't need, as in really need, Brad Thorn either.

    Edit: I see him as a five-eighth or centre in union. A place we already have one league convert, not in his league position.

    From memory, he played union on the wing and was beating defenders at will (it was the highlights reel). Even though he played for Otahu, he easily stood out when up against the big guns.
    He could easily play 14 and play the wing/fullback role. Although, I'm not so sure on his ability under the high ball with pressure, and his kicking game. His defence will definitely be a step up on JB/DMac.

    People also forget that he is a converted fullback (he started off on the wing in league), who is now regarded one of the best in his position.

    You're taking a punt with 'definitely' if you watched him defend this year (TBF being a Warriors fullback gives you lots of chances to make and miss tackles) - and saw Duffie get used as a human speed bump on occasion when returning.



  • @nepia said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @mimic said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @chester-draws said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @cgrant said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    Do the ABs need him for the 2019 RWC ?
    For the back three, they have : Ben Smith, Israel Dagg, NMS, Jordie Barrett, DMac, Naholo, Ioane, Savea, Havili, Duffie and Tamanivalu, plus maybe Nanai, Alaimalo, Will Jordan and Caleb Clarke if they can step up.

    Who says he will play at the back?

    We didn't need, as in really need, Brad Thorn either.

    Edit: I see him as a five-eighth or centre in union. A place we already have one league convert, not in his league position.

    From memory, he played union on the wing and was beating defenders at will (it was the highlights reel). Even though he played for Otahu, he easily stood out when up against the big guns.
    He could easily play 14 and play the wing/fullback role. Although, I'm not so sure on his ability under the high ball with pressure, and his kicking game. His defence will definitely be a step up on JB/DMac.

    People also forget that he is a converted fullback (he started off on the wing in league), who is now regarded one of the best in his position.

    You're taking a punt with 'definitely' if you watched him defend this year (TBF being a Warriors fullback gives you lots of chances to make and miss tackles) - and saw Duffie get used as a human speed bump on occasion when returning.

    Boomfa



  • @mn5 Haha, that one is pretty classic, and harsh on Duffie really, Naholo was knocking people over for two years like he was a modern era Jonah.



  • @nepia said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @mn5 Haha, that one is pretty classic, and harsh on Duffie really, Naholo was knocking people over for two years like he was a modern era Jonah.

    He got some incredible air time



  • @nepia said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @mn5 Haha, that one is pretty classic, and harsh on Duffie really, Naholo was knocking people over for two years like he was a modern era Jonah.

    Err ... d not h ...



  • Duffie had a few high profile defensive misses that year. Nadolo was the famous one, and even though it was understandable, it was pretty embarrassing. In general, I don't think he was impressing many people with his game. However, the thing that really impressed me about Duffie was how he didn't drop his lip or try and run back to league. I didn't anticipate the trajectory of his improvement but even if he didn't get as good as he has gotten, I would have been impressed with how he conducted himself after that first season.



  • I thought this was a really good article about Duffie. He has overcome a lot of adversity with serious injuries but perseverance and work ethic has got him through.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/98329819/new-all-black-matt-duffie-chases-a-happy-ending-to-his-tale-of-perseverance



  • Last year in debut SR season Duffie was awful, hopelessly out of his depth. Then later on season in NPC he started to look quite good. I wondered if that was his natural level or whether he was adjusting.

    Then this year's SR he was fantastic. I'm a huge fan of his play.

    Also. I get the feeling there is quite a bit of respect in NZ rugby for the culture and player development that happens at Melbourne Storm.

    Conversely, I think there is suspicion and a bit of contempt for the playing side at the Warriors and for the culture side at the Sydney clubs.

    Storm have taken the mantle from the Brisbane Broncos during the Wayne Bennett ( and Brad Thorn era).



  • As to the original thread topic.

    I think it's a bargaining ploy. The only kiwi League players we have seen actually make the switch are the cut loose medical basket cases (Duffie, Laumape, Fisiahi) apart from Benji's short dalliance.

    Who do it the right way through the pyramid.



  • What sort of player is he ? I don't watch much provincial or Super Rugby which will surprise no one judging from the crap I write on here.



  • @mn5 compare that to how the 'guy that can't tackle' deals with that threat



  • @williethewaiter said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    @mn5 compare that to how the 'guy that can't tackle' deals with that threat

    I think that one was a case of Naholo talking over him rather than a real tackle. Kinda like putting a stick between the spokes of a bike. Brave effort though.



  • @mn5 said in Roger Tuivasa-Sheck:

    What sort of player is he ? I don't watch much provincial or Super Rugby which will surprise no one judging from the crap I write on here.

    Duffie is arguably the best player in NZ under the high ball - it has started to become a real weapon for teams he is in to use. He is deceptively quick and has more power than you'd expect too - a canny sort of attacker who picks his spots well and has a unique long legged loping running style. Can play fullback. Has been compared to Ben Smith - I wouldn't say he's at at that level but he's come a hell of a long way from 18 months ago when he did not look Super Rugby level.


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