Formula 1



  • https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/motorsport/98976286/brendon-hartley-pierre-gasly-confirmed-as-toro-rosso-drivers-for-2018-formula-one

    Congratulations to Brandon Hartley on realising a dream and becoming a full time F1 driver. First kiwi since the glory years?



  • This is really cool! He must be absolutely frothing. Hope they can sort out the car so he can have a serious crack next year.



  • Torro Rosso also gives him the clearest path to a front running drive too, given the very close relationship between the two red bull teams (all four drivers are contracted by red bull).

    That said I don't think he'll be displacing Ricciardo or Verstappen anytime soon, but he's given himself the best possible opportunity.



  • Mate of a mate who I went to the rugby with is an aerodynamic engineer at Toro Rosso. So I had a long interesting chat to him. I'm not a huge F1 fan, I actually prefer the qualifying to the race, but I'll generally watch it if I'm home and doing nothing. Anyway, some points of note:

    Hartley is toast. Hes just plain not quick enough, and has shown himself to continually be 0.5s a lap slower than Gasly, who is not rated to really be in the upper pantheon of drivers

    I said Hartleys age also counted against him, if he's 0.5s slower and 19, thats one thing, but at 29 - maybe past it - he said no, thats not really the case. The data shows him as a person to just not be quick enough - but even the slowest F1 driver can pretty much so dominate any other racing series

    He said Hartley would likely be faster than Gasly in Brazil, as he said the track is quite heavy on some of type or corners where Hartley is faster - proved to be correct.

    Unsurprisingly he said in about 3 years it will likely be Max Verstappen and then everybody else. Clear cut the fastest driver, but he also said there is some 17 year old whose just won F3 or something who is being scouted pretty heavily.

    The technology on the cars is amazing. They monitor speeds on every corner, on every track at rate of something like 100 times a second. Epic bag data nerd fantasy stuff.

    Because I live within a mile of McLaren, I had briefly looked at jobs there, but reality is that my 'city' experience doesn't really set me up for any thing decent, but after a brief chat with this bloke it's massively reinvigorated my interest.



  • @majorrage said in Formula 1:

    Mate of a mate who I went to the rugby with is an aerodynamic engineer at Toro Rosso. So I had a long interesting chat to him. I'm not a huge F1 fan, I actually prefer the qualifying to the race, but I'll generally watch it if I'm home and doing nothing. Anyway, some points of note:

    Hartley is toast. Hes just plain not quick enough, and has shown himself to continually be 0.5s a lap slower than Gasly, who is not rated to really be in the upper pantheon of drivers

    I said Hartleys age also counted against him, if he's 0.5s slower and 19, thats one thing, but at 29 - maybe past it - he said no, thats not really the case. The data shows him as a person to just not be quick enough - but even the slowest F1 driver can pretty much so dominate any other racing series

    He said Hartley would likely be faster than Gasly in Brazil, as he said the track is quite heavy on some of type or corners where Hartley is faster - proved to be correct.

    Unsurprisingly he said in about 3 years it will likely be Max Verstappen and then everybody else. Clear cut the fastest driver, but he also said there is some 17 year old whose just won F3 or something who is being scouted pretty heavily.

    The technology on the cars is amazing. They monitor speeds on every corner, on every track at rate of something like 100 times a second. Epic bag data nerd fantasy stuff.

    Because I live within a mile of McLaren, I had briefly looked at jobs there, but reality is that my 'city' experience doesn't really set me up for any thing decent, but after a brief chat with this bloke it's massively reinvigorated my interest.

    It must be really frustrating to drive for TR though. Constantly adjusting due to being the test bed for RB. I get that they have comparative data as far as their drivers go but who knows how well they would go in a decent car?
    I guessed Hartley wouldn't last after costing the team so much with early crashes. Not only the fix costs but the lost opportunity for data.



  • @crucial said in Formula 1:

    @majorrage said in Formula 1:

    Mate of a mate who I went to the rugby with is an aerodynamic engineer at Toro Rosso. So I had a long interesting chat to him. I'm not a huge F1 fan, I actually prefer the qualifying to the race, but I'll generally watch it if I'm home and doing nothing. Anyway, some points of note:

    Hartley is toast. Hes just plain not quick enough, and has shown himself to continually be 0.5s a lap slower than Gasly, who is not rated to really be in the upper pantheon of drivers

    I said Hartleys age also counted against him, if he's 0.5s slower and 19, thats one thing, but at 29 - maybe past it - he said no, thats not really the case. The data shows him as a person to just not be quick enough - but even the slowest F1 driver can pretty much so dominate any other racing series

    He said Hartley would likely be faster than Gasly in Brazil, as he said the track is quite heavy on some of type or corners where Hartley is faster - proved to be correct.

    Unsurprisingly he said in about 3 years it will likely be Max Verstappen and then everybody else. Clear cut the fastest driver, but he also said there is some 17 year old whose just won F3 or something who is being scouted pretty heavily.

    The technology on the cars is amazing. They monitor speeds on every corner, on every track at rate of something like 100 times a second. Epic bag data nerd fantasy stuff.

    Because I live within a mile of McLaren, I had briefly looked at jobs there, but reality is that my 'city' experience doesn't really set me up for any thing decent, but after a brief chat with this bloke it's massively reinvigorated my interest.

    It must be really frustrating to drive for TR though. Constantly adjusting due to being the test bed for RB. I get that they have comparative data as far as their drivers go but who knows how well they would go in a decent car?
    I guessed Hartley wouldn't last after costing the team so much with early crashes. Not only the fix costs but the lost opportunity for data.

    He also said there was next to fuck all sharing of information / data with Red Bull as the FIA rules forbid it. He was an aerodynamics engineer and said they were 100% completely separate from Red Bull



  • @majorrage said in Formula 1:

    @crucial said in Formula 1:

    @majorrage said in Formula 1:

    Mate of a mate who I went to the rugby with is an aerodynamic engineer at Toro Rosso. So I had a long interesting chat to him. I'm not a huge F1 fan, I actually prefer the qualifying to the race, but I'll generally watch it if I'm home and doing nothing. Anyway, some points of note:

    Hartley is toast. Hes just plain not quick enough, and has shown himself to continually be 0.5s a lap slower than Gasly, who is not rated to really be in the upper pantheon of drivers

    I said Hartleys age also counted against him, if he's 0.5s slower and 19, thats one thing, but at 29 - maybe past it - he said no, thats not really the case. The data shows him as a person to just not be quick enough - but even the slowest F1 driver can pretty much so dominate any other racing series

    He said Hartley would likely be faster than Gasly in Brazil, as he said the track is quite heavy on some of type or corners where Hartley is faster - proved to be correct.

    Unsurprisingly he said in about 3 years it will likely be Max Verstappen and then everybody else. Clear cut the fastest driver, but he also said there is some 17 year old whose just won F3 or something who is being scouted pretty heavily.

    The technology on the cars is amazing. They monitor speeds on every corner, on every track at rate of something like 100 times a second. Epic bag data nerd fantasy stuff.

    Because I live within a mile of McLaren, I had briefly looked at jobs there, but reality is that my 'city' experience doesn't really set me up for any thing decent, but after a brief chat with this bloke it's massively reinvigorated my interest.

    It must be really frustrating to drive for TR though. Constantly adjusting due to being the test bed for RB. I get that they have comparative data as far as their drivers go but who knows how well they would go in a decent car?
    I guessed Hartley wouldn't last after costing the team so much with early crashes. Not only the fix costs but the lost opportunity for data.

    He also said there was next to fuck all sharing of information / data with Red Bull as the FIA rules forbid it. He was an aerodynamics engineer and said they were 100% completely separate from Red Bull

    I guess operationally they are. I know fuck all about F1 (I find it boring but take passing interest) but I did hear the comms the other day talk about how next year RB will likely be starting from a stronger base due to TR effectively testing the new engines for them. As I said, I don't know how it works but I just always assumed that as TR are non competitive they are there to try things that RB can't during a season.

    EDIT: Just found this on the F1 site. It seems to be talking about what I heard.

    Although they’re the Red Bull junior team on paper, Toro Rosso are very much their own entity. But with Honda power set to be used by both Red Bull and Toro Rosso in 2019, the Italian team are ramping up to increase their collaboration with the senior outfit for next year.
    Toro Rosso announced in September of last year that they would move to Honda power for 2018, with Red Bull opting to take the same route for 2019 earlier this year. And while the two teams have used the same power units before – both running rebadged Renault items in 2017, for example – 2019 will see the Red Bull and Toro Rosso cars sharing an entire rear end, including a complete gearbox, as well as some front suspension parts.

    “We will have a very close cooperation with Red Bull Technology next year because we will have the same rear part,” said Toro Rosso Team Principal Franz Tost, “which means the power unit, gearbox and the suspension – everything within the regulations [that we’re allowed to use].
    “The front suspension as well," he added, "the inner parts, not the outer parts. But that’s a lot, because the complete rear part means also the hydraulics, the electronics, all this kind of stuff.”

    Toro Rosso are moving more towards the Ferrari/Haas model with Red Bull

    The move will see Red Bull and Toro Rosso move closer to the Ferrari/Haas technical partnership model, whereby Haas benefit from using all the Ferrari parts that the Scuderia are legally allowed to make available for other teams, including power units, transmissions, suspension components, hydraulics and electronics.
    It’s a model that’s clearly helped Haas, with the American team currently angling to overtake Renault’s fourth place in the constructors’ championship in only their third season in F1.
    Toro Rosso, meanwhile, have never finished higher than sixth in the constructors’ race since their debut season in 2006. Could closer ties to Red Bull see that change?



  • @crucial yeah, i'm with you there. I thought they shared everything, and you constantly hear the comm's saying things like that



  • Arise dead thread, probably didn't need is own so I'll say fucking impressive achievement by Lewis Hamilton:
    91 wins (equal to Schumacher, he's got 6 more races to do it this year).
    6 champs (7 equalling Schumacher coming up soon).
    Far the most polls and podiums of any driver.
    Only driver to have won in every year he's competed.
    And he's done it without running a few competitors off the track, as far as I know. Still pissed about when Schumacher nobbled Damian!

    Schumacher's son presented him with one of his dad's helmets
    0113eee5-128e-4197-a019-38752987aca1-image.jpeg https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/11/lewis-hamilton-equals-michael-schumachers-91-race-wins-at-eifel-f1-gp#img-2



  • @Machpants And he’s done it without constant, highly dubious team orders. Don’t particularly like the guy but he’s the GOAT.



  • @Catogrande said in Formula 1:

    @Machpants And he’s done it without constant, highly dubious team orders. Don’t particularly like the guy but he’s the GOAT.

    Yeah me too, no huge fan, but gotta respect his ability and achievements



  • Never really been interested but have got into F1 this year, enjoying sitting down on a Sunday to watch it. Gets pretty boring Hamilton always winning though!

    Was a neat moment when he got the helmet, he was almost speechless.



  • He would easily be the most disliked British sportsman by the Brits (that I know of anyway).

    He's not the greatest of all time driver though. He's arguably driving the greatest car of all time the last few years though.



  • I got right into F1 when living in the UK, but the race times and lack of coverage make it tough from here. I threatened again after the Netflix series, but lost it again.

    That helmet gesture is just fucking awesome.



  • There's no doubt he's a tremendous talent but in my mind he can't be considered the GOAT. To do that requires drives that are seared into the memory as career defining drives. Like Senna at Donnington in 93, Schumacher's 96 drive in the Spanish grand prix.

    Hamilton has benefited from a clearly dominant car, stability in regulations and lack of competitive co-drivers. The modern season also has mores races in the calendar.



  • @antipodean said in Formula 1:

    There's no doubt he's a tremendous talent but in my mind he can't be considered the GOAT. To do that requires drives that are seared into the memory as career defining drives. Like Senna at Donnington in 93, Schumacher's 96 drive in the Spanish grand prix.

    Hamilton has benefited from a clearly dominant car, stability in regulations and lack of competitive co-drivers. The modern season also has mores races in the calendar.

    Yeah, agree. I mean he's clearly one of the best ever drivers, and i'd argue his Silverstone in the wet is his career defining drive, but it just feels like he's had such a leg up with his car. I mean, Nico Rosberg won a world championship in it = solid, excellent driver, but not a world champion.

    If you think what Schumacher did for Ferrari and then what Prost / Senna did for McLaren, it takes them all to the next level. Then you compare what happened to Vettel after he left Red Bull, it just feels like Hamilton is more Vettel than one of the others.



  • @MajorRage Schumacher won his first title with Bennetton as well



  • When Hamilton moved to Mercedes, he was slated for it. It was a new a unproved team, his work with the team is part of the reason they are so dominant. He also has had Champion team mates, I think three times, and beaten them convincingly every time he was with them in the same car. He's pretty fucking rocking. I think it is hard to get those seared in performances with modern cars being so technical, but he is a winning machine. And winning is what counts in pro sport. I think because he is a gob shite, people don't give him his due as a driver. And at least he isn't as dull as paint drying Nigel!



  • In terms of multiple world titles it is always the better car that is the factor. Even going back as far as Fangio, he swapped seats halfway though one season to get into a better car.

    Currently Mercedes has the better car undoubtedly (though Red Bull are getting closer), but Hamilton has out qualified, out raced and outwitted his team mates, has suffered more than his fair share of team errors (this year) and reliability issues and is still far and away the dominant driver of his generation. He has done this without resorting to running his opponents off the track or benefitting from team orders. His ability to pull out THE lap in qualifying has been amazing, his ability in the wet is again up there with the best as is his sheer speed and racing ability. Moreover he won a world championship in 2008 in not the best car (Ferrari won the constructors title) and he is (I think), the only driver to have one in every season that he has competed).

    Is he the best driver ever? Probably not, but his record makes him the GOAT for me.



  • @Machpants said in Formula 1:

    When Hamilton moved to Mercedes, he was slated for it. It was a new a unproved team, his work with the team is part of the reason they are so dominant. He also has had Champion team mates, I think three times, and beaten them convincingly every time he was with them in the same car. He's pretty fucking rocking. I think it is hard to get those seared in performances with modern cars being so technical, but he is a winning machine. And winning is what counts in pro sport. I think because he is a gob shite, people don't give him his due as a driver. And at least he isn't as dull as paint drying Nigel!

    This is the shit that pisses me off about Hamilton fan boys - so much of the above is simply not true.

    He has two WC partners and he dominated neither. Fernando Alonso, in 2007, they finished the season equal on points, with Fernando finishing above him on 10 of 18 races. At the end of the season, Alonso quit McLaren because they team clearly favoured Lewis (probably rightly so, given he was a Brit and had been with hem for years).

    2008 - credit where it's due, as all the hard work paid off. Beat Kovalienen convincingly (who wasn't a world champion)

    2010 / 2011 he had Button, who had pretty much so been a journeyman his entire racing career apart from the one with Brawn in a truly dominant car. He finished above him 2010, Button above him in 2011 - where is this convincingly claim of yours again?

    Then he joins Mercedes, which has a pretty decent start, not amazing but decent. And the turbo rule changes come in and boom and he's on the next level. It would be churlish to suggest he didn't play a part in this - of course he did. Him & Rosberg dominated the next few years, with Hamilton certainly the superior driver, but the car playing a huge role in it. Hell, Rosberg even won a WC then promptly retired.

    Since then, he's had Bottas as a clear number 2.

    He's undoubtedly one of the greatest, but for me, he's not the greatest. You are spot on though about will to win, he has that in spades.



  • With an excellent qualifying, and just as good race, Hamilton is now the most winningest F1 driver on 92.

    Motor sport related, Dixon has taken his sixth Indy car, in a crazy race.



  • Anyone watching qualifying? Fun!!

    Brand new track + rain.



  • FB_IMG_1605956003948.jpg



  • Nasty crash lap one on the weekend. Romain got our with looks like damaged ribs and ankle from the crash. And burns on his hands from grabbing a super heated barrier during his escape

    ?

    Hamilton won again



  • @Machpants never seen anything like it, the instant explosion was so Hollywood.

    Since we knew he was ok, watching the footage from Kvyat's car was pretty funny. Grosjean goes flying across his nose and off into the barrier and you just catch the explosion out the side. Then Kvyat"s head flicking to and fro as he's frantically checking his mirrors.



  • So George Russell, a Williams driver whose achieved nothing in F1, has Hamilton’s seat this weekend.

    And promptly sets the fastest time in P1.

    Not a great look for Bottas.



  • @MajorRage said in Formula 1:

    So George Russell, a Williams driver whose achieved nothing in F1, has Hamilton’s seat this weekend.

    And promptly sets the fastest time in P1.

    Not a great look for Bottas.

    Puts things in perspective at MB.

    Everyone said Russell was quick and deserved something better than the Williams.



  • @antipodean said in Formula 1:

    @MajorRage said in Formula 1:

    So George Russell, a Williams driver whose achieved nothing in F1, has Hamilton’s seat this weekend.

    And promptly sets the fastest time in P1.

    Not a great look for Bottas.

    Puts things in perspective at MB.

    Everyone said Russell was quick and deserved something better than the Williams.

    Goes to show, as good as a driver can be, they are only one part of the package and if you don't have speed you don't have speed



  • Well Bottas squeaked pole with Russell second. This race is going to be interesting. What price Hamilton and Russell at Mercedes next year?



  • Just switched over in time to see a team of engineers and mechanics (or whatever) chatting away in the background behind the presenter who's midway through a segue and one of the guys in the background takes a massive nutshot at one of the others. Brilliant.



  • This race has been thoroughly entertaining. Hilarious antics.



  • I know Bottas "is on a blind date with his tyres" but Russell is showing him up something chronic.



  • Sergio Perez wins in his first podium after 190+ races. So cool. Couldn't even speak on his way in through the tears.

    Feel sorry for the forgotten man Ocon though! No one even wants to mention him!



  • Perez was last at the end of the first lap.



  • MB demonstrating that Hamilton is kissed on the dick in that team.



  • I see Schumacher's son won the Formula 2 championship this weekend.



  • So in a nutshell, Mercedes completely fucked up destroying Russel's chances of a maiden victory.

    Perez's emotion was absolutely superb viewing though. What a story. What a victory.

    I watched a fair bit of post race (which I never do) and the Perez and Russel interviews were great. At the risk of going all tin foil hat though, I think some questions need to be asked of MB. A team which has basically never fucked up, suddenly does when they have a young rookie in embarrassing his team mate.



  • @MajorRage Russel hadn't even got points before had he? It was a pretty bizarre scenario all around really, they'd only recently pitted and then to double-up, as well as the fuck ups on top of that...



  • Mercedes have fucked over Hamilton enough, last session he lost two (at least) due to their cock ups. It's not unusual



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