Laurel Hubbard



  • Curious to know what peoples thoughts are on this.

    My own opinion is this is farcical. Being transgender is fine but to enter the sports arena as a women is one step too far for me.



  • @raznomore said in Laurel Hubbard:

    Curious to know what peoples thoughts are on this.

    My own opinion is this is farcical. Being transgender is fine but to enter the sports arena as a women is one step too far for me.

    Yup totally unfair on the other real women weightlifters
    4 years ago he was fully a male, clearly has a huge advantage over chicks without dicks that he competes against



  • Surely someone with mental issues should be competing at the Special Olympics?

    Yeah, I went there.

    Same story with the 6' 100kg "girl" who wanted to play women's AFL.

    Or first class cricketers who can't quite crack the IPL and support women cricketers getting pay equity...

    Sooner or later they'll wake up to the nonsense their support for social justice has riven on them and they'll be clamouring for the Girl Guides to be female only.



  • There is a very real minor revolution going on for people to be able to express who they are, especially for transgenders, to my mind, more so than gay/lesbians. And I am far from against that.

    But Its just like when Caitlan Jenner was awarded woman of the year. It kind of just pissed all over women's struggles to that point.

    Hormone replacement or denying testosterone production should not simply be enough to allow entry into female competition. Hubbard knows she is exploiting her male attributes to compete.



  • @antipodean have you seen the MMA fighter? It is brutal.



  • @raznomore said in Laurel Hubbard:

    There is a very real minor revolution going on for people to be able to express who they are, especially for transgenders, to my mind, more so than gay/lesbians. And I am far from against that.

    Its like when Caitlan Jenner was awarded woman of the year. It kind of just pissed all over women's struggles to that point.

    Hormone replacement or denying testosterone production should not simply be enough to allow entry into female competition. Hubbard knows she is exploiting her male attributes to compete.

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  • @raznomore
    Clearly you avoid the politics forum. Problems with this current transgenderism movement is a common theme, wait until you read about parents deciding their 3yo kid is old enough to identify as the other sex and then start planning towards a sex change, child abuse to the applause of the progressive social justice movement.

    Things are getting to beyond ridiculous levels, biology professors are regarded as transphobes if they teach basic biology. Calling a transgender person by the wrong pro-noun is now outlawed in Canada (and there are some 50+ different pronouns now including zhe, eir pixie and more created everyday) . Males who identify as females can now go to female prisons..and rape female inmates. Boys who identify as girls can now shower with girls at the girl scouts.

    I know people hate politics but unless people start taking notice and make a collective stand against this garbage the next generation is in for a world of trouble.



  • Same for me. Competing like this is just wrong



  • Hypothetically, if BBBR or Vaea Fifita or any other top rugby player, were supposedly women trapped in mens bodies, went through the process would they then be allowed to play for the Black Ferns? THat'd be fair right?



  • If a woman takes testosterone for four years deliberately then competes in weightlifting after she's put on all that muscle, she'll get a life ban.

    A former man has 20 years of doing that after puberty, and she's fine to go?

    There's zero equity in that.



  • Apart from Steve Smith it's always men competing in women's sports too, never the other way around.



  • I have no problem with transgender women competing in women's tournaments if they started their transition with hormone therapy before the onset of puberty, because then they would have the same muscle and bone development as girsl who were born biologically female.

    If they started their transition later, there will always be a difference between transgender women and women born biologically female. However, transgender women who have transitioned with hormone therapy and/or surgery are at a disadvantage compared to biological males, as those therapies will have adversely affected their body composition (decrease of lean muscle mass, increase of body fat, hormones etc). In my view, they should compete in a separate category, just like transgender men who have had hormone therapy.



  • @rembrandt I can't decide if I'm liberal or conservative so best to stay off the political forum. The Baron would eat my happy go lucky comments alive.



  • @Stargazer if transgender women are starting their transition before puberty then their parents should he charged with child abuse. The majority of kids "confused" about their gender end up settling into their body just fine, and often turn out to be gay or bi. These lunatic SJWs that just ignore biology and psychology are dangerous as hell, and as @Rembrandt says people need to start pushing back against this nonsense.



  • @raznomore said in Laurel Hubbard:

    @rembrandt I can't decide if I'm liberal or conservative so best to stay off the political forum. The Baron would eat my happy go lucky comments alive.

    5 years ago I would have told you I'm liberal, but today with all the outrage culture and SJW nonsense I'm not so sure. Which is why I love the Politics forum! Come join the fun!

    Chances are your thread will get moved so you'll have no choice... 🙂



  • @no-quarter said in Laurel Hubbard:

    @Stargazer if transgender women are starting their transition before puberty then their parents should he charged with child abuse. The majority of kids "confused" about their gender ejd up settling into their body just fine, and often turn out to be gay or bi. These lunatic SJWs that just ignore biology and psychology are dangerous as hell, and as @Rembrandt says people need to start pushing back against this nonsense.

    One of my work colleagues was filling out a college application for her daughter and was asked what gender she identified with.

    I know heaps of you blokes have kids around the same age as mine give or take and it sickens me that the world we live in and have brought our kids into is so fucken crackpot it gives the minority a platform to air their grievances. Perish the though we actually 'offend' any of them.

    Oh and as for the topic in question I would be absolutely spewing if I were a woman and some bloke came along and beat me. It's just not fair. Women have to work their fucken arses off to get anywhere close to the levels of strength that blokes can attain.



  • @no-quarter I disagree, but won't comment further. There is a reason I'm staying off the political forum and this topic belongs there.



  • @stargazer said in Laurel Hubbard:

    @no-quarter I disagree, but won't comment further. There is a reason I'm staying off the political forum and this topic belongs there.

    You disagree with biology, clinical psychology, or both?



  • @stargazer this particular topic is a sporting, political and probably moral/ethical issue all rolled into one, so could sit in many places



  • Completely unfair to the other competitors.



  • Its tricky because on one hand I am saying "be who you are" and on the other Im like "but if you love sports and you want to compete you have to be someone else".

    This is totally political but I started this thread because its sports based and in the news now. Totally fine to move it though.



  • @raznomore said in Laurel Hubbard:

    Its tricky because on one hand I am saying "be who you are" and on the other Im like "but if you love sports and you want to compete you have to be someone else".

    This is totally political but I started this thread because its sports based and in the news now. Totally fine to move it though.

    That's just reality though - the men's and women's categories are not based on feelings, they are based on biological differences. No matter how much a man wants to be a women, biologically speaking it is not possible.

    Like you I'm all for people expressing themselves. If a guy wants to live as a women then he can go for his life, no issues at all. It's a mental illness, but that doesn't mean he/she should face any kind of unfair discrimination.

    But this isn't unfair discrimination, it's just the way it is. As for all the people making up new genders like zhe, they are just living in a fantasy land.



  • @raznomore said in Laurel Hubbard:

    Hubbard knows she is exploiting her male attributes to compete.

    No different to Serena Williams



  • Her testosterone levels are low enough but they are still way more than an average women. the testosterone level in serum has to be below 10 nmol/L for 12 months prior to competing as a women. The high level for normal women in 2.7 nmol/L.

    Women with hyperandrogenism conditions do have levels up to and above 10nmol/L and that might be the reason the bar is so high.

    They should look into a third gender Olympics category, a guaranteed gold medal for NZ. There are enough trans, intersex people in the world. Caitlin Jenner could make a comeback in decathlon or Heptathlon at masters level.



  • How many of you have heard of Tracey Lambrechs?

    She would have been the NZ rep in the 90+ kg category at the Commonwealth Games (the same weight category as Hubbard) but she has reportedly lost 17 kg to allow her compete in the under 90 kg category. This is one of the flow-on effects of this whole saga.

    Being a transgender athlete wouldn't be such an issue in sports like shooting, equestrian etc but in any sport where strength and speed are so important there will never be a level playing field. Look at all the controversy surrounding Caster Semenya.



  • The chick who beat her has Polycystic ovary syndrome so she would have high testosterone levels too. She has been sanctioned in the past as well for not clearing doctor prescribed pills.



  • A lot of the issue is also where do you draw the line? I think an ex male weightlifter then deciding that he's a female more than crosses the line regardless of testostorone levels. Musclemass for a start has to be an issue. Any resident biologists on here able to confirm other attributes?



  • I want to see a photo of what she looked like before, I wonder if he was ripped or one of the cuddly type of strong men. She is probably the first transgender that has actually been so successful. There have been others in other sports where strength helps but none have done as well.



  • 0_1512633425152_FB_IMG_1512633369916.jpg



  • 0_1512633924047_maxresdefault.jpg

    This powerlifter Matt Kroc transitioned to Janae Kroc. If she had continued with power lifting I bet she would have kicked arse



  • @rembrandt

    What are your sources for boys being allowed to shower with girls etc? I’ve read about the Canada gender thing, but I’ve yet to read about any actual situations where little penises are ok in the girls room. Would love to see your sources as I’m currently having an ongoing discussion with another friend about this issue.

    Edited, because it was a bit weird.



  • @gt12 said in Laurel Hubbard:

    @rembrandt

    What are your sources for boys being allowed to shower with girls etc? I’ve read about the Canada gender thing, but I’ve yet to see any actual situations where little penises are ok in the girls room. Would love to see them as I’m currently having a bit of an ongoing discussion with another friend.

    This is the ferns weirdest ever post



  • @mn5

    I try.



  • @raznomore said in Laurel Hubbard:

    @rembrandt I can't decide if I'm liberal or conservative so best to stay off the political forum. The Baron would eat my happy go lucky comments alive.

    Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive... feel free to be both.



  • @raznomore said in Laurel Hubbard:

    Its tricky because on one hand I am saying "be who you are" and on the other Im like "but if you love sports and you want to compete you have to be someone else".

    This is totally political but I started this thread because its sports based and in the news now. Totally fine to move it though.

    Don't worry the mods move things as required, Stargazer is NOT a mod and is completely and utterly irrelevant to any decision making process, we just wish he would realise that and stop trying to moderate from the back seat.



  • @no-quarter said in Laurel Hubbard:

    @raznomore said in Laurel Hubbard:

    @rembrandt I can't decide if I'm liberal or conservative so best to stay off the political forum. The Baron would eat my happy go lucky comments alive.

    5 years ago I would have told you I'm liberal, but today with all the outrage culture and SJW nonsense I'm not so sure. Which is why I love the Politics forum! Come join the fun!

    Chances are your thread will get moved so you'll have no choice... 🙂

    When did we move politics to a separate forum?!! I just had off topic and sportstalk bookmarked, and I thought the former had been a bit boring/quiet the past few months. I've been missing out!



  • @gt12 said in Laurel Hubbard:

    @rembrandt

    What are your sources for boys being allowed to shower with girls etc? I’ve read about the Canada gender thing, but I’ve yet to see any actual situations where little penises are ok in the girls room. Would love to see them as I’m currently having a bit of an ongoing discussion with another friend.

    This could use a little bit of editing.



  • @jegga

    Fucking SJWs. Languageismists.



  • @gt12 Absolute gold gents. Had me laughing like a madman on the train. I will find my sources once home..sure as hell am not googling on my work phone!



  • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/26/guides-allows-boys-identify-female-shower-girls/

    Also this where they rules a transgender male could shower and use the same locker rooms but had to at least use a curtain..well then that was challenged as the curtain was regarded as discriminatory.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/03/us/illinois-school-district-transgender-ruling/index.html

    I don't have kids, but I do have nieces, and I swear to god there would be some violence if some institution forced them to not only share a locker room with a bloke but to even go as far as making it a civil rights issue that he has to be naked with them


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