Russia nerve agent poisoning



  • @dogmeat said in British Politics:

    Maybe we should have a thread on Muslim politics and move this conversation there? Just saying because I don't feel qualified to contribute to the heated debate that has taken over this topic and while its clearly an important issue many of you feel passionate about it does seem to have derailed any conversation about any other issue in the UK today - or maybe I missed it in the last couple of hundred posts on Muslim / free speech / people getting banned etc.

    Just don't think this debate is really about UK politics any more

    I add my vote to that.
    I have tried to bring up the big topic of the moment and it has been lost in the noise (and I'm one of the noise makers)
    The Russia nerve agent thing is getting interesting on a few levels. The UK is using the situation to find out who it's friends really are and how far they will back them. I expect Australia and NZ will get dragged into this soon.
    Quite right that Putin should be called out though and this incident is the straw that broke the camels back in that regard.
    Easy to dismiss as sabre rattling that will quiet down when on the other side of the world but this has the potential to get quite messy. NATO knows it too.
    The allegations against Russia have also ramped up to accusations of stockpiling nerve agents outside of agreements.



  • @crucial Australia will back England to the hilt on this. There's a lot of ill will following the downing of MH17 let alone long standing geopolitical ties.



  • Oh, goodie, Nerve Agent Mania. Ye olde “smoking gun” WMD redux. Vlad is the New Saddam, honest. We know where they are, just like Bob Mueller knew who the mystery anthrax killer was. Only a terrorist sympathizer., or maybe a Frenchman, would dare dispute this.

    alt text



  • @crucial said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    ...this has the potential to get quite messy. NATO knows it too.

    And yet another perfect reason to disband NATO.



  • @salacious-crumb said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    Oh, goodie, Nerve Agent Mania. Ye olde “smoking gun” WMD redux. Vlad is the New Saddam, honest. We know where they are, just like Bob Mueller knew who the mystery anthrax killer was. Only a terrorist sympathizer., or maybe a Frenchman, would dare dispute this.

    alt text

    Could you elaborate for the rest us who don’t understand what that post meant?



  • @crucial said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    Australia and NZ will get dragged into this soon.

    @antipodean said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    @crucial Australia will back England to the hilt on this. There's a lot of ill will following the downing of MH17 let alone long standing geopolitical ties.

    Believe our Foreign Minister has already done the "stand with UK in condemning Russia" etc



  • @nta said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    @crucial said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    Australia and NZ will get dragged into this soon.

    @antipodean said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    @crucial Australia will back England to the hilt on this. There's a lot of ill will following the downing of MH17 let alone long standing geopolitical ties.

    Believe our Foreign Minister has already done the "stand with UK in condemning Russia" etc

    I think the UK are looking for tangible support from friends.

    The interesting part of the game is the card playing. Putin has finally categorically denied involvement and gone further to say they have no stockpiles. UK have hinted that they have evidence that is a lie. Are they waiting for him to paint himself in a corner before they pull the evidence out?
    There are a few parallels with the WMD scenario though. Nice diversion for May's govt to promote to appear strong. The Brexit talks are only causing endless stumbling. Some groups looking for strong evidence before the shooting from the lip and being shouted down on any doubts they raise.



  • I don’t see much parallel with the wmds , they aren’t going to invade Russia or do much more than pout about it. Putin gives no fucks about human rights or what world thinks and just won another dodgy election.



  • @jegga said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    I don’t see much parallel with the wmds , they aren’t going to invade Russia or do much more than pout about it. Putin gives no fucks about human rights or what world thinks and just won another dodgy election.

    Not on the grounds of invasion but U.K. are trying hard to drag everyone into a Cold War.



  • @crucial said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    Not on the grounds of invasion but U.K. are trying hard to drag everyone into a Cold War.

    Already doing their best to isolate themselves from the rest of Europe, after all.



  • Some interesting moves going on in Europe with the EU sounding out sanctions and looking to step up against Putin while the UK led offensive is on. Poland finds themselves in the middle, not that they are pro-Russia in any way, just that the increased threat means they need to tow the EU line if the want friends at their back.



  • Required reading from the inimitable Raimondo, the guy who did more work to smoke out the WMD and anthrax hoaxes in real time, asking the obvious sorts of questions the MSM doesn’t have the brains or nerve to ask.

    Russian to Judgment: Who Poisoned Sergei Skripal?
    The all-purpose “Russia did it” explanation makes no sense

    https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2018/03/14/russian-to-judgment-who-poisoned-sergei-skripal/



  • At least @jegga had the sense to post this in the Conspiracy Theory thread

    @jegga said in Your favourite conspiracy theories:

    This is effectively the nz Labour Party blog, they claim that the poisoning in the Uk is a false flag.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/russian-to-judgment/

    What planet does that guy live on? A great example of someone throwing some bullshit out into the world hoping some unthinking morons pick it up and eat it.

    Have to love the claims about 'no evidence'. The evidence is strong enough that everyone viewing it has come to the conclusion that Russia's culpability is 'highly likely'.

    This type of evidence is always, at some stage, untested, hence the 'highly likely' conclusions rather than outright claim of proof.



  • @salacious-crumb said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    Required reading from the inimitable Raimondo, the guy who did more work to smoke out the WMD and anthrax hoaxes in real time, asking the obvious sorts of questions the MSM doesn’t have the brains or nerve to ask.

    Russian to Judgment: Who Poisoned Sergei Skripal?
    The all-purpose “Russia did it” explanation makes no sense

    https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2018/03/14/russian-to-judgment-who-poisoned-sergei-skripal/

    As above, Wrong thread IMO.

    Love how these blogging 'experts' form their considerable knowledge on a subject based on zero information + lots of speculation.



  • I’ve not been following this closely, what is the evidence Russia did this?

    Seems pretty reckless, isn’t this close to an act of war considering the cop was poisoned as well?



  • @kirwan you'd have to ask: if its all bullshit, why are several EU governments going with the "Russia Did It" version of events.

    If the agent was analysed and known to only be synthesised in certain areas of the world, you're still taking a large bet on your intelligence services not missing anything at all.



  • @nta said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    @kirwan you'd have to ask: if its all bullshit, why are several EU governments going with the "Russia Did It" version of events.

    If the agent was analysed and known to only be synthesised in certain areas of the world, you're still taking a large bet on your intelligence services not missing anything at all.

    Same reason all those countries thought Iraq had WMDs, faulty or biased intelligence. We’ve seen those agencies have their own agendas, probably always have had.

    I was hoping for something a bit more specific, like Russia is the only ones with the nerve agent. Or the motive was clear, something like that.



  • @kirwan said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    I was hoping for something a bit more specific, like Russia is the only ones with the nerve agent. Or the motive was clear, something like that.

    From what I have heard and read Novichok is a nerve agent developed by Russia. The UK is saying either this was a state-sponsored assassination or Russia has allowed their own nerve agent to fall into other parties hands. There was also a former Russian scientist (living in the US, in exile I assume) who said he was involved in its development. Russia is denying they ever had such a nerve agent.

    The truth will lie somewhere in the middle.



  • @bovidae said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    @kirwan said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    I was hoping for something a bit more specific, like Russia is the only ones with the nerve agent. Or the motive was clear, something like that.

    From what I have heard and read Novichok is a nerve agent developed by Russia. The UK is saying either this was a state-sponsored assassination or Russia has allowed their own nerve agent to fall into other parties hands. There was also a former Russian scientist (living in the US, in exile I assume) who said he was involved in its development. Russia is denying they ever had such a nerve agent.

    The truth will lie somewhere in the middle.

    That’s more like it. So we have circumstantial evidence, that leans towards Russia. And we have them publicly lying about the nerve agent.

    With all the sabre rattling going on, I hope they have more than that behind the scenes.



  • @kirwan said in Russia nerve agent poisoning:

    I’ve not been following this closely, what is the evidence Russia did this?

    Seems pretty reckless, isn’t this close to an act of war considering the cop was poisoned as well?

    If the Russian State did it, then it seems about on par with the Rainbow Warrior to me.

    But, so far, I've seen no solid evidence other than that the Russians are probably the only people who manufactured that nerve agent. But then who knows who might have got hold of it. Could be some Russian guy who Skripal slept with his wife?

    If the Russians wanted him dead they could have executed him ten years ago.

    Basically if Putin did it, it seems like he'd have to be making a major "fuck you" statement (since he could have just put a bullet in Skripal's head).

    I fail to see the motive and I can't see that the Brits are presenting any substantive evidence. Unless they know more than they're saying, the response doesn't seem particularly rational, Captain! 🙂

    These guys seem to be making a reasonable summation.

    https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/skripal-west-escalates-where-proof


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