Hurricanes 2019 Discussion



  • Time to look at the Hurricanes squad for 2019. Full blog post:

    https://www.thesilverfern.com/2018/07/29/hurricanes-2019-discussion/



  • @stargazer Shouldn't Proctor, Umaga-Jensen and Aso all be midfield/outside backs?



  • @chris-b Yeah, maybe, the Canes are confusing. Their official squad list differs often from what they say about players' positions on their website.



  • Really the backs are fine, there's enough quality there to go around, experience and exciting newcomers - and well signed returnee! But man do we need some work on the props, locks and (lesser extent) loosies, and we need Coles and Aumua fit & firing, thanks



  • Fidow (if not injured) should bring some firepower upfront and Walker-Leawere is a strong lad. Nr.8 is a worry though with only one good option there (Gareth Evans).



  • @cgrant Yep, he may be too young for next SR season, but if the Canes are smart, they lock in Devan Flanders. It will be interesting to see how he goes in Mitre 10 Cup.



  • Incoming Hurricanes coach John Plumtree wants to recruit a towering, hard-hitting lock for next season, and may look abroad to find that player.
    
    He told Andrew Gourdie and Jim Kayes on RadioLIVE Sunday Sport that he wanted a South African lock, because New Zealand just "doesn't breed" them like that anymore.
    
    "When you look at our pack, we probably need a 6ft 9 [2.10cm] lock that is 140kgs, which would help," he said.
    
    "There a couple of big men floating around the country, but they're all in Canterbury at the moment.
    
    "We don't breed big guys, not like they do in South African and France."
    
    The tallest locks for the Hurricanes this season was Michael Fatialofa and Sam Lousi who stands at 2.01m, which is much shorter than the average South African lock, standing at 2.07m.
    
    He hopes to use a foreign-player spot for a second-rower, but he understands the logistics can be complicated.
    
    "We are allowed to have a foreigner in the side, and I'd definitely look for a lock.
    
    "We only have three more spots to fill, and I'm in no rush to full those up.
    
    "If one came available, I would look to sign them, but I'm not going to throw one on a plane and bring him over here.
    
    "There is a lot to consider when looking at a player from overseas.
    

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2018/07/super-rugby-hurricanes-target-massive-lock-for-2019-season.html



  • "We only have three more spots to fill"

    It would be great then, to know all the names of players who have already been signed.



  • "The average South African lock, standing at 2.07m". Is it a joke ?



  • @cgrant Strange comments fullstop. Who are these massive men who are a) in Canterbury; and b) inaccessible to the Canes?

    Well, there's Sam Whitelock, but he's not big enough for Plumtree.



  • @chris-b said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    @cgrant Strange comments fullstop. Who are these massive men who are a) in Canterbury; and b) inaccessible to the Canes?

    Well, there's Sam Whitelock, but he's not big enough for Plumtree.

    The only one around 140kg I can think of is Will Skelton and if I remember rightly he was a bit shit.



  • @cgrant said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    "The average South African lock, standing at 2.07m". Is it a joke ?

    It's odd. I looked at the locks in the South African SR squads and checked their height and weight via Wikipedia, and if the numbers are correct, only Lood de Jager and RG Snyman come close to 2.07m (both 2.06m) but are still way too light (both 125kg). Most of them are under 2m.



  • @stargazer I think we measure height slightly different down here in Wellington

    alt text



  • @toddy said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    @stargazer I think we measure height slightly different down here in Wellington

    alt text

    This post deserves at least 20 upvotes



  • cgrant commented yesterday
    Fidow (if not injured) should bring some firepower upfront and Walker-Leawere is a strong lad. Nr.8 is a worry though with only one good option there (Gareth Evans).

    Agree. we need more firepower in the forwards. What about Walker-Leawere at 8. So Fidow, Coles or Aumua along with Savea and WL. And the huge SA? lock that Plumtree is going to find. Smashing teams apart in the last 20 - 25 minutes (or for the full match).



  • Last season I reckon Rory Arnold was the tallest super rugby player at 208, Dom Bird is thereabouts too?

    2014 Tahs had a hard hitting saffer in Jacques Potgieter who towers in at 194cm. I just don't see why that recruit needs to so big? Even Bakkies Botha was smaller and he was as mean and hard as they come.



  • The only SA locks who are of international class are Eben Etzebeth (when fit) and Lood de Jager. The others are journeymen.



  • @cgrant said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    The only SA locks who are of international class are Eben Etzebeth (when fit) and Lood de Jager. The others are journeymen.

    New guy Snyman is very, very good.



  • @stargazer said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    @cgrant said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    "The average South African lock, standing at 2.07m". Is it a joke ?

    It's odd. I looked at the locks in the South African SR squads and checked their height and weight via Wikipedia, and if the numbers are correct, only Lood de Jager and RG Snyman come close to 2.07m (both 2.06m) but are still way too light (both 125kg). Most of them are under 2m.

    That's not light at all for those heights. That's probably around the ideal weight for locks that tall.

    They're both big human beings when you see them on the field.

    Snyman looks like he lives in the gym.
    alt text

    Lood de Jager definitely doesn't live in the gym(seriously, somebody get this man a bowflex), but he's still a big boy.
    alt text



  • Sam Lousi doesnt look 121kg or whatever it is he is listed as, think in the graphic shown before the semi last week he was 121 and Whitelock 120 yet the latter looks bigger.



  • @dice Plumtree apparently wants someone of those heights but 140kgs.

    He might be taking the piss or he might have been reading too many comics! 🙂



  • You get a guy that big and he'll spend half the season injured. People that big don't flex that well.

    Or he's really bulky and can take the smashes. In which case he's slow.

    I'd take the Brad Thorn type every day of the week if I wanted muscle. The AB selectors prefer Scott Barrett to Dom Bird, for the same reasons. Reliability and speed are important too.

    I thought fetishing about height went out with lifting in the lineout. How high are you going to lift 140 kgs?



  • Predicted list of those that will be snapped up/ signed for next year. I've included young talent (bolded) that have all but committed to the Canes and a ?? for those players that I think will move on / be surplus to requirements.

    We need to strengthen our depth at prop, lock and halfback for obvious reasons, otherwise if we remain fairly healthy we look settled across all other positions. Enough to make the playoffs again but questionable whether we have the metal to compete with the Cantabs.

    Props:

    • Tim Farrell (Hawkes Bay)
    • Toby Smith (Waikato)
    • Jeff Toomaga Allen (Wellington)
    • Fraser Armstrong (Manawatu)
    • Alex Fidow (Wellington)
    • Chris Eves ??
    • Ben May ??

    Hookers:

    • Dane Coles (Wellington)
    • Asafo Aumua (Wellington)
    • Ricky Riccitelli (Taranaki)
      -Fourth hooker will be included, hopefully not O'Reilly as he seems too small for Super.

    Locks:

    • Isaia Walker-Leawere (Wellington)
    • Sam Lousi (Wellington)
      Liam Mitchell (Manawatu)
    • Big Safa Lock (S.A)
    • Geoff Cridge??
      Someone like Mitch Dunshea from the Crusaders would be a great acquisition.

    Loose Forwards:

    • Vaea Fifita (Wellington)
    • Brayden Iose (Manawatu)
    • Gareth Evans (Hawkes Bay)
    • Devan Flanders (Hawkes Bay)
    • Ardie Savea (Wellington)
    • Sam Henwood (Counties)
    • Reed Prinsep (Canterbury)
    • James Blackwell ??

    Halfbacks:

    • TJ Perenara (Wellington)
    • Finlay Christie (Tasman) - signed but fairly questionable in playing ability.
    • Folau Fakatava (Hawkes Bay) - A young talent that we will need to lock up quickly.
    • Carlos Price (Wellington) - pending if he gets much game time for the Lions this year but he was involved with the Canes in 2018 so we must see something in him for further selection.

    First Fives:

    • Beauden Barrett (Taranaki)
    • Jackson Garden Bachop (Wellington)
    • James Marshall (Taranaki) / 15
    • TJ Va'a (Wellington) / 9

    Centres:

    • Matt Proctor (Wellington)
    • Ngani Laumape (Wellington)
    • Billy Proctor (Wellington)
    • Peter Umaga Jensen (Wellington)

    Outside Backs:

    • Vince Aso (Auckland)
    • Ben Lam (Wellington)
    • Wes Goosen (Wellington)
    • Jordie Barrett (Taranaki)
    • Nehe Milner Skudder (Manawatu)
      Jonah Lowe ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
      Another fullback option - we may use James Marshall as a utility like we did when we won the title.


  • @carnage I don't know if you've done it deliberately to raise @Stargazer's ire, but you're missing Jonah Lowe. You best add him even if you put the ?? after him.

    Also, we know Fakatava and Flanders are going to wind up elsewhere - the Canes are adverse to young Magpies talent.



  • @carnage Champagne backs, but the forwards aren't inspiring - especially the tight five options outside hooker.

    Can you guys get Hammer on a consulting contract to rebuild your pack? 🙂

    🎣



  • @nepia Yeah Lowe is a good player but B Proctor takes his spot for me. Best chance for him is to have a crack at the Blues.

    Flanders and Farrell trained with the Canes in the pre season last year and I was fortunate to visit one of the trainings. Plumtree is a massive fan of both apparently so I will be surprised if they aren't signed. Fakatava has to be snapped up, he looks like a young Will Genia.



  • @chris-b With the Crusaders flush with excellent tight five options do you think someone like Mitch Dunshea would make the move north? He was outstanding against Tasman the other night and was the more impressive lock vs Romano.

    Typical Canes look about the 2019 squad. Great backs, ho-hum forwards. Hopefully Coles, Aumua, Fidow all stay fit and we could tip you fellas over.

    Much as I hate to say we do need more experience in those areas and unfortunately they don't grow on trees. Bring back the Tongan Bear.



  • @carnage said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    @nepia Yeah Lowe is a good player but B Proctor takes his spot for me. Best chance for him is to have a crack at the Blues.

    Flanders and Farrell trained with the Canes in the pre season last year and I was fortunate to visit one of the trainings. Plumtree is a massive fan of both apparently so I will be surprised if they aren't signed. Fakatava has to be snapped up, he looks like a young Will Genia.

    Why didn't you include him with ?? though? You really are poking the @stargazer bear. 🙂

    Plumtree might be impressed with them both - but it's the Canes and they're from HB so it's 50/50 at best.

    @Chris-B The Canes don't need a pack that can't get them to the semi finals in 5 attempts. Plus, when the Hammettuer arrives half the champagne backs disappear.



  • @nepia Change made ✌



  • @carnage said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    Yeah Lowe is a good player but B Proctor takes his spot for me. Best chance for him is to have a crack at the Blues.

    As a midfielder or outside back? Suspect that the Blues will have SBW, Leger, Tele'a, and Manu in midfield, with Tua, Faiane, Groundwater, and Hohaia competing for a spot. (Comeback Little and Vaega ...)

    Outside backs will include Duffie, Nanai, Ioane, Collins, and Clarke.



  • @nepia This might be a big call at this stage of his career but Flanders has All Black written all over him and I will be gutted if the Canes pass on him. Perfect size for a number 8, great skillset and has a lot of pace for his size. Laban described him as a hybrid between Read and Zinny.



  • @carnage said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    @nepia Change made ✌

    👍🏾
    I guess it also depends if he impressed Plumtree in camp this year.

    Re: Flanders. I think one of his issues will be getting gametime in the NPC - he's got Evans and Tu'u ahead of him. But yep he looks class, but so did Boswell-Wakefield at U20s level and he went no where.



  • @tim as a Centre. The problem with the Blues is they haven't found a classic "Smith/Nonu match" in the centres and the makeup of their backline always looks disjointed. Having Lowe at Centre will give them that Proctor type player who has the nous both on attack and defense - could be a perfect option with his speed and distribution skills to really unlock the Blues potential out wide. SBW, Leger, Tele'a and Manu are all similar to those that they have picked in the past. Expect the same results if they go with those four.



  • @nepia He is still very young so will probably make more cameos off the bench this year than starting opportunities. He just seems like a smart footballer and seems to make great decisions with ball in hand. Who knows, the Crusaders picked Read when he was a young fella, so the Canes may give him a crack. Hugh Renton was probably another guy that didn't reach his potential and promised alot out of college.



  • @nepia said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    @carnage I don't know if you've done it deliberately to raise @Stargazer's ire, but you're missing Jonah Lowe. You best add him even if you put the ?? after him.

    Also, we know Fakatava and Flanders are going to wind up elsewhere - the Canes are adverse to young Magpies talent.

    I don't take posts that seriously if they come from someone who has joined the Fern in the last few hours, has contributed only 6 posts and starts making big statements about "young talent that have all but committed" to the Canes. 😁



  • @stargazer Has he just joined the Fern though? Seriously though what is the point at Lowe staying at the Canes, he would be better off at the Blues where he will atleast get more minutes and a chance to show how talented you think he is.



  • @carnage said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    @nepia He is still very young so will probably make more cameos off the bench this year than starting opportunities. He just seems like a smart footballer and seems to make great decisions with ball in hand. Who knows, the Crusaders picked Read when he was a young fella, so the Canes may give him a crack.

    Yeah, it would be good if they picked him up, but you'll understand why I'm not confident that will happen by looking at where HB players usually wind up at Super level, and it isn't in Wellington most of the time.

    Renton may have kicked on (and may still in Wellington) if not for constant injury and personal circumstances.



  • @carnage Unless your profile is wrong, yes. Or you're Winger re-incarnated. Or another Ferner who had/has an account under another name.

    0_1534834634360_a6e3025e-bc60-42b6-99ab-5392b82c913a-image.png



  • @nepia But when you look at options in that position from a Wellington point of few, there aren't many. Loose forward stocks are quite slim with most of the down at the Highlanders, therefore I think he is a safe bet and i'm confident history won't repeat itself. Or we might do something stupid and sign Thomas Waldrom instead.



  • @carnage said in Hurricanes 2019 Discussion:

    @stargazer Has he just joined the Fern though? Seriously though what is the point at Lowe staying at the Canes, he would be better off at the Blues where he will atleast get more minutes and a chance to show how talented you think he is.

    No one would be better off at the Blues. I'd rather see him join the Chiefs (they have to fill some vacancies) or Highlanders (taking Buckman's spot if the latter doesn't return). Maybe even Crusaders, although they'll probably fill their remaining spots from within the region.


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