Diets keto/carnivore etc



  • So I've been having pretty big issues with energy levels and concentration for a while I've kept a pretty steady gym routing averaging about 4 days a week since the tail end of last year but its slowly getting worse. I eat relatively healthy, have cut drinking well back, could do better with sleep of course.

    I got blood-work done 6 months ago and my blood sugar and cholesterol were a fractionally high so I cut out butter and reduced by morning poached eggs and salmon on toast down to one slice of toast and reduced by coffees to half a teaspoon of sugar. I've just now gone in for a re-test so will see if those changes have helped. I discussed with my doctor about the energy situation too and they're testing for a few more bits and pieces.

    As a Peterson & Rogan fan I have been listening to some of the discussions on the carnivore diet for helping with energy and health which has caught my attention..it also has the added appeal of being able to tell a vegan about it when they give me their moralistic spiel.

    Anyone had any experience with this or the less drastic keto diet? I'm figuring 'what the hell' might as well give something a crack and having bloods done just prior could be a good way of monitoring what could be going on.



  • I've never gone down the whole hog, carnivore/keto route but have been restricting carb intake, sometimes quite drastically. Whilst in the main the results in terms of fat loss have been pretty good it does seem to bugger up my energy levels, certainly at the beginning of any regime. I noticed that this improved as I lost a bit of weight and started re-introducing higher levels of carbs further down the line.

    Like anything though it is all about how sustainable a regime it is for you. If you can stomach eating nothing much more than protein consistently then I'm sure you'll adapt. I found that after a prolonged period I just couldn't look at another steak again. Well not for a couple of days anyway.

    My lapse problem came when I sustained a debilitating rotator cuff injury, this restricted my ability to exercise in almost all forms and really, really buggered up my sleep. When you have those issues going on it is very difficult to sustain anything drastic on the nutrition front.

    Thank God for bacon though.



  • @catogrande Yeah sustainability will be the issue. I don't have a sweet tooth but my craving food is vegemite on toast. I've heard you need to give this thing 6 weeks to really try it properly. Will take a huge effort.



  • I am right now doing a keto-ish diet, I kickstarted it with a 24 hour fast and then for two weeks had basically no carbs. After that I have tried to get 10-15% of the daily intake in carbs, which I reckon is the recommendation, I like veggies so I can get it easy from carrots and like that have more carbs in them than broccoli and cauliflower.
    I have come to realize during my years that sustainability is the biggest thing, for now I allow one or two days of eating crap, but still try to keep the calories in check for those days. The fast was also a real eye-opener, just this week I got through my second which was 40 hours, that really made me realize that every time I thought I was hungry, that really wasn't the case.

    What has helped me a lot, is that I like cooking and usually now bring my own lunch to work mon-thu (friday is for pizza or some other crap). You can easily make healthy and tasty food if you plan ahead a bit. I haven't been really able to train with all the lingering injuries but I do at least a 1 hour jog/walk with the dog per day and haven't noticed any effects on energy levels, instead moving has become easier as I have lost some 8-9 kg during 6 weeks. Probably a tad too much, so have been thinking to eat a bit more, but the cravings have gone non-existent so it isn't that easy to up the eating.

    In the end it doesn't really matter what kind of diet you do, find something you can sustain and then keep with it till you achieve your goals and then set new ones. I will probably start consuming more carbs once I get rid of the niggles and get back on training, maybe up the total calories too, but will surely still favour fats and protein as that has been working so far.



  • @rembrandt said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    @catogrande Yeah sustainability will be the issue. I don't have a sweet tooth but my craving food is vegemite on toast. I've heard you need to give this thing 6 weeks to really try it properly. Will take a huge effort.

    That is likely to be quite difficult then. One of the cravings I get is for texture. Something crunchy to alleviate all the meat, fish and eggs. I often get toast envy at breakfast time at Cato Towers. @Sapetyvi is bang on though - sustainability is key. I particularly like his view that it has to be sustainable until you meet your goals and then you set new goals. Doesn't make it such a long slog that way I reckon.



  • @catogrande Yea my first goal was to get trough one week of keeping the diet, now I am aiming under 100kg (102.9 this morning). Small goals at a time works for me, someone else might find it easier to aim for the skies, but I reckon thinking 4-6 weeks forward should get you some sustainable goals.



  • @sapetyvi did you have any issues with keto flu?



  • @jegga Had no problems. I was 100% sure my energy levels would go to shit, but nothing happened. What is keto-flu?



  • @sapetyvi said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    @jegga Had no problems. I was 100% sure my energy levels would go to shit, but nothing happened. What is keto-flu?

    Apparently if you go all in it’s a real shock to your system and you get a week or so of flu like symptoms. Some people start off slower to avoid it.



  • @jegga Well my diet wasnt shit, I just ate too much, plus the occasional fast food and then being too much on the piss, so the biggest shock was the hunger, but I reckon the fast helped there big time. I might also just be a lucky prick.

    I got the fasting thing from an internet article which I cant find right now, it was 10 things we all should be able to do and I had done all of them except fasting for 24hrs, so I gave it a try and fuck I enjoyed it.
    From now on I will Be doing 36-48hrs once a month, and just this week got on the intermittent thingy, I eat lunch between 11-12, dinner 17-18 and then just before 20 Ill Haven something small, usually a shake with milk, 1-2 eggs, whey-100 and some peanutbutter. I only really feel hungry just before lunch and dinner, otherwise it has been fine



  • @sapetyvi Cheers for that, very useful. I've heard about the benefits from fasting but I know I generally turn into a bit of a prick when hungry so I think its best for everyone if I don't!

    I have a colleague at work who has been doing Keto and intermittent fasting for a few weeks now, she claims she has more energy but she moans a hell of a lot during the day about being hungry and last week I had to call an ambulance as she collapsed with abdominal pain...so that's put me off the fasting part at least! (she ended up being fine, just got her to eat some cookies and have a rest and she came right).

    Sustainability is certainly the key and I can see that will be where I could easily fall off as I do have a pretty busy life as is. I've also read about the keto-flu which I could see me caving after a stressful day so I think I'm just going to at least initially cut out all major sources of carbs bread/pasta/rice/potato/sugars. See how that runs for a month and then look to take things further. I'm also not in a position where I want to lose weight, maybe just a little bit of toning to pull back a slight holiday belly but nothing drastic.



  • @rembrandt Yeah minor changes have better odds to stick.

    I think the lady might have been lying about the energy levels 😆



  • The tough thing is lack of snack type opportunities. No sandwiches, no pasta or rice salads. Lunch can be a bitch unless you plan.



  • Planning is a must, need to be at least two days ahead, else you end up pounding a chinese buffet into bankcrupsy at lunch on monday.

    I sorted the snacks with the shakes, get some good whey protein and blend it to milk, toss in an egg for good measure. Tastes ok and takes the hunger away for a while.



  • I’m not Keto but roll with the low carb every time I need to shred up a bit for summer and it works quick fast every time. Usually feel less bloat or puffiness and way tighter within a week.

    Means heaps of meat and greens. Plus eggs, peanut butter etc oh and whey. Takes prep tho, coooked up 2kg or chick breast this evening and also have about a kg of brisket left over to keep me going at work for the week.

    Only carbs (other then vegetables) is post training in my oats and often have a banana on legs day.

    Always have a refeed day with more carbs once a week and plan this for a heavy workout day. Keeps me sane knowing it’s coming and I feel like it helps with metabolism and insulin sensitivity.

    Re energy levels. Haven’t noticed much impact but been like this for years and now days I’m more likely to feel sleepy and lethargic from carbs than I do without.



  • I think ultimately you want to be happy and healthy. If you're constantly hungry and pissed off then it probably isn't ideal. Life can be short too so no point in completing cutting out all of the finer things.

    I've experimented a bit and found a diet that works well for me. No sugar, butter or bread.

    Breakfast: Cup of oats, raspberries, 2.5 eggs mixed with protein powder. Absolutely delicious.
    Midmorning: 2 wholemeal rice cakes with peanutbutter.
    Lunch: Chicken/turkey/salmon with rice/kumara.
    Midafternoon: chunk of kale mixed with protein powder. Good shit.
    Dinner: Similar to lunch, but midweek usually go spaghetti bolognaise.

    Saturday used to be epic cheat meals but have calmed down a bit. Generally just eat what I want but within reason.

    Works well for me and I'm never hungry. But everyone is different.

    I'm very skeptical about the carnivore diet but hope it catches on to piss off the vegans.



  • @rancid-schnitzel said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    Breakfast: Cup of oats, raspberries, 2.5 eggs mixed with protein powder. Absolutely delicious.

    So are you making a protein shake and adding raw eggs to it?



  • @milk I do that, tastes good.



  • @milk said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    @rancid-schnitzel said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    Breakfast: Cup of oats, raspberries, 2.5 eggs mixed with protein powder. Absolutely delicious.

    So are you making a protein shake and adding raw eggs to it?

    I used to top up my protein shakes with those liquid egg whats, add an extra 50ml to 100ml in there so bonus protein



  • @milk said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    @rancid-schnitzel said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    Breakfast: Cup of oats, raspberries, 2.5 eggs mixed with protein powder. Absolutely delicious.

    So are you making a protein shake and adding raw eggs to it?

    Yep. Delicious.



  • @sapetyvi said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    @milk I do that, tastes good.

    That’s a big part of a diet I reckon, if it isn’t that great to eat or there’s no variety it’s so much harder to stick to.

    Apparently there’s nothing unhealthy in an egg yolk so you can keep those in your shakes. I want to get more eggs into my diet and am thinking about getting chooks.



  • @jegga And variety makes a diet healthier too, if you only ever eat broccoli and chicken breast, you are probably missing on some nutrients you need.

    I am a bit lazy on the variations, some health nut would probably shred My diet into pieces, but it is still way better than it used to be.

    Varying the meat isn't hard, but the veggies is. Caukiflower, broccoli and cabbage are staples in my diet and I actually like them, so it's easy to get around a kilo a day in. I do like most veggies, but some are heavy on carbs so need to be careful there.

    Co workers are starting to get jealous tho. Whip out ribs or pulled pork for lunch and they will start considering if their pasta with minced meat and ketchup was the right choice.



  • I always thought is wasn't considered safe to eat raw eggs? Has that been busted?



  • Not sure where to put this...



  • @milk said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    I always thought is wasn't considered safe to eat raw eggs? Has that been busted?

    Done alot of research on this. There is a minuscule chance of getting sick from caged eggs and even smaller chance from farm free eggs.



  • So 1 week into an extremely low carb diet and the results are pretty good.
    Holiday belly pretty much gone, I understand this could of course be just a water retension thing.

    More importantly however my energy levels are waaaay up. No crashes during the day, getting a lot of work done after hours, waking up much easier, getting really back into regular gym and mood way improved.

    Felt a little lethargic on Wednesdays gym session so I upped the amount of meat eating on Wednesday and Thursday nights and this morning smashed out my first 8km run in a long time without the lethargy I would expect for having very few carbs.

    Of course this could be just short term and maybe change in weather or even possibly a slight illness running its course could be the cause of the improvements but certainly positive enough results to continue with for now.



  • @rembrandt Good onya. If you feel the need to eat more carbs, I reckon a lot of professionals recommend taking them around training, or evening if you have earned them during the day.

    Took a bit of a hit on the weekend myself, had a schoolmate move back here and we went on a bit of a bender, but have upped my training this week and also eaten a bit more, morning weight today 101.9kg. On the plus side is that I can fit to my favorite shirt again, minus is that it isn't tight around the shoulders anymore like it used to be.



  • @rancid-schnitzel said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    @milk said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    @rancid-schnitzel said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    Breakfast: Cup of oats, raspberries, 2.5 eggs mixed with protein powder. Absolutely delicious.

    So are you making a protein shake and adding raw eggs to it?

    Yep. Delicious.

    The human body has poor absorption of raw eggs. Needs light cooking.

    https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/digestion-whole-raw-eggs-11843.html



  • Forgot to mention an almost highlight of the diet. Had a discussion on a friends page with a lady who was concerned about me avoiding fruit and relying too much on meat and dairy. I'd explained how I've replaced my eggs on toast with eggs on steak as my everyday breakfast. She seemed pretty in the know so I checked her profile thinking she might be a nutritionist or something...nope she owns a makeup business and is an avid animal rights activist and vegan. She was very polite (as I was) but still knowing I've replaced bread with dead daisy the cow has got to rub her the wrong way.



  • Biggest change I've made as I've transitioned from 30s to 40s to 50s is gradually reducing the portion size of my meals over time.

    In my 30s I would think nothing of eating 4-5 hamburgers at a BBQ, now I'm full (both physically and mentally) on 1. 2 at a push.

    Full fat everything, just less of it.

    Strong black coffee.

    Dark chocolate. Don't need much.

    Oatmeal, full fat milk, and berries for breakfast.

    Dense wholemeal toast, butter, peanut butter for Hobbit second breakfast.

    Normal mixed meals for lunch and dinner.

    Eating out, I'll often have a starter, then a starter as my main.

    Seldom drink pints, now it's wine or Gin & Soda.

    Walk the dog 3 times a day.

    Ski my arse off all winter.



  • @mikethesnow it surprises me how little you actually need to sustain yourself if the food is good .



  • I'm giving this sirtfood thing a go. I'm not really a buyer of crash diets / specific things, but I know a few people who have had a large amount of success with it.

    It starts off with one meal a day plus 3 sirt food juices (kale, parsely, celery, rocket, granny smith, green tea, loveage). The meal is a specific collection of things which are high in some bollocks called sirtuin activators. Then as you get further into it you can have a different range of things such as red wine, dark chocolate etc.

    WE'll see how it goes ... the book claims that most people ditch 7 pounds in the first week. I'm sure that's almost all water, and none of it fat.

    We shall see



  • I had a pixie caramel today because I saw them in the NZ section at Coles while searching for Biltong (in the SA section next to it) - I haven't had one in years, it was awesome.

    Anyway, to stay on topic. My diet has been vegetables and meat for lunch and dinner for four years now when I lost roughly 25kg (and I keep 20kg's off normally unless I'm travelling). I like to have a piece of toast with marmite for breakfast although I'll swap to omelettes if I'm wanting to lose a bit of weight. On weekends I tend to be a bit more lax.

    If I eat rice and pasta I stack on the weight. Earlier this year I did a month of eating the same amount of calories each week but for the first two two weeks I was on my usual diet and on the 3rd and 4th I ate carbs with my meals (rice, pasta and potatoes on occasion).

    It was not pretty in the 3rd and 4th week, I ballooned up pretty quickly and just felt like shit. I've figured out that eating rice for me basically gives me the same sensation as eating lollies, i real high and then I just feel like shit the rest of the day with a headache. It's so weird that I'd barely last a day now on my previous diet that I was on for most of my adult life.

    Anyway, what I'm really saying is that I agree with people that say just do what works for you personally. If you can eat lots of carbs and not turn into a fatty then go for your life - I'm very envious.

    @Sapetyvi I'm lucky that I have an Asian foodcourt below my work and two of the places steam their veges and they'll happily cook my meat without sauces if I ask, so if my planning goes to shit my lunches don't tend to fuck up my diet.



  • Last night I had two Almighty burgers from Grill'd. And a few beers. Not sure I could have fit a wafer-thin mint.

    I know when don't have carbs the weight falls off.

    Using an online calculator:

    Your BMI is 29 and your waist measurement is 37 inches

    What this means
    Your BMI result indicates you are in the overweight category, and your waist circumference is in the ideal range.

    Don't really care about BMI for reasons we're all too aware of. The waist circumference is good.



  • Pretty low carb day here which is common now for a Saturday

    7am F45 workout just fuelled by bcaas and pre workout
    815am two scoops whey
    10am bacon and eggs and coffee
    12pm salmon and salad
    3pm whey
    4pm the low carb beer train rolled in with a load of almonds
    6pm ribs, steak and salad

    Another scoop of whey to come, maybe something sweeter though depending when the low carb beers stop flowing



  • @nepia said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    I had a pixie caramel today because I saw them in the NZ section at Coles while searching for Biltong (in the SA section next to it) - I haven't had one in years, it was awesome.

    Anyway, to stay on topic. My diet has been vegetables and meat for lunch and dinner for four years now when I lost roughly 25kg (and I keep 20kg's off normally unless I'm travelling). I like to have a piece of toast with marmite for breakfast although I'll swap to omelettes if I'm wanting to lose a bit of weight. On weekends I tend to be a bit more lax.

    If I eat rice and pasta I stack on the weight. Earlier this year I did a month of eating the same amount of calories each week but for the first two two weeks I was on my usual diet and on the 3rd and 4th I ate carbs with my meals (rice, pasta and potatoes on occasion).

    It was not pretty in the 3rd and 4th week, I ballooned up pretty quickly and just felt like shit. I've figured out that eating rice for me basically gives me the same sensation as eating lollies, i real high and then I just feel like shit the rest of the day with a headache. It's so weird that I'd barely last a day now on my previous diet that I was on for most of my adult life.

    Anyway, what I'm really saying is that I agree with people that say just do what works for you personally. If you can eat lots of carbs and not turn into a fatty then go for your life - I'm very envious.

    @Sapetyvi I'm lucky that I have an Asian foodcourt below my work and two of the places steam their veges and they'll happily cook my meat without sauces if I ask, so if my planning goes to shit my lunches don't tend to fuck up my diet.

    I agree, everyone is different so has different needs. I'd say evolution has a fair bit to do with it - PI people don't tend to do so well on a European style diet.

    My wife had gestational diabetes while pregnant, which means she had the symptoms of type 2 diabetes (goes away after giving birth). It was pretty interesting measuring her sugars and seeing what spiked them - any carbs, especially breakfast cereals (even the supposedly healthy ones) just shot it through the roof. But a big feed of meat and veg had little effect (she is PI btw).

    Whereas for me I need the carbs to keep my energy levels up through the day - I'm naturally skinny so tend to drop weight very easily and feel like shit if I don't eat enough. So we've realised our diets need to be a bit different, notably on portions - I'll serve myself out a big helping of carbs but will give her very little, and top it up with meat and veg as that seems to be what works better for her.

    I'm not a big fan of extreme diets, I think it's pretty well known what foods should be part of a healthy diet to ensure you get all the nutrients you need, but portion size of each food type will vary between people. A lot of people only really need 1 - 2 servings of carbs per day.



  • 2 weeks on the diet and despite coming down with a cold at the end of the week and therefore an inability to train the last 3 days I still find my energy levels and mental focus are good, and certainly my mood is still in good shape. I've even been able to finish a small writing job I'd been putting off all year.

    Pre-diet if I went more than 2 or 3 days without some sort of training I tend to get a vague negative feeling first thing in the morning, kind of like a combination of laziness maybe even depression or dread, nothing too bad but that's normally my cue to get my ass into gear and get the body going again. Well that feeling doesn't seem to be occurring now, again this could just be coincidence maybe it'll come back with another couple days on inactivity but still even while sick motivation and energy levels seem to be doing really well.

    Diet is still reasonably easy to stick to, biggest problem is cost so I'm trying to use that as motivation to make my own lunches, have less dinners out and put a hold on my weekend brunch outings.

    *edit Mods, might be worth moving this into Fitness forum



  • Update on the diet thingy, 100.5kg this morning, so much slower weight loss now during the last 3-4weeks than the first 6, but overall feeling much better. Was just out with the dog and we went to the dog park and then jog back from there, about 3km, hardly broke sweat and didn't breath heavily at any point. Been ages since I could jog without feeling like shit all the time, unfortunately the dog was a bit slow as he got his excersice at the dog park, could have ran much faster.

    As for the diet itself, I have given myself much more freedom with what I eat, for example today went to a Chinese buffet, but only ate half of what I used to, portion sizes are so much smaller that it doesn't really matter if I take a carb here and another there.

    If you think you should drop some weight, I just can't recommend it enough, no matter how you do it, after 10kg I feel so much better and exercising is so much more fun now. So much easier to look myself in the mirror too, probably going to try to settle somewhere around 90kgs, I remember I was pretty satisfied with myself years ago at 94, but think I packed more muscle then too, so need to whip my ass to the gym more too.



  • @sapetyvi said in Diets keto/carnivore etc:

    Update on the diet thingy, 100.5kg this morning, so much slower weight loss now during the last 3-4weeks than the first 6, but overall feeling much better. Was just out with the dog and we went to the dog park and then jog back from there, about 3km, hardly broke sweat and didn't breath heavily at any point. Been ages since I could jog without feeling like shit all the time, unfortunately the dog was a bit slow as he got his excersice at the dog park, could have ran much faster.

    As for the diet itself, I have given myself much more freedom with what I eat, for example today went to a Chinese buffet, but only ate half of what I used to, portion sizes are so much smaller that it doesn't really matter if I take a carb here and another there.

    If you think you should drop some weight, I just can't recommend it enough, no matter how you do it, after 10kg I feel so much better and exercising is so much more fun now. So much easier to look myself in the mirror too, probably going to try to settle somewhere around 90kgs, I remember I was pretty satisfied with myself years ago at 94, but think I packed more muscle then too, so need to whip my ass to the gym more too.

    Farken well done mate! So good to hear things are going well. Dieting doesnt have to be hard and when you start seeing/feeling success it then gets even easier!



  • So Ketoish diet update... Well that was fun while it lasted!

    I got to 4 weeks in before I had a trip away for a wedding with family where it became far too much of an issue for meals to continue with, so I had 3 days off enjoying normal food. I did however keep relatively strict on my drinking avoiding beer and instead sticking to whiskey on the rocks or dry white wine. Managed to run another 10K with ease during these days off too.

    The night before the wedding I went to try on my suit in order to work out which shirt would be better...well it felt a little loose so I asked my siblings their thoughts. Ah the beauty of family they have no interest in protecting peoples feelings, the verdict the suit is far too big for me and I have literally no ass in it (Clue 1)...interesting, oh well mad dash to the clothing store the next day to get some new trousers...hmmm down to a 30" waist that's weird haven't worn that size in a long time (Clue 2) , maybe Target's clothing size is differently sized.

    Anyway to work this week so back on the diet, learned some new recipe ideas in the last couple weeks which makes this diet even easier such as zucchini noodles, cauliflower rice and even how to make a keto bread substitute. A colleague at work commented that I'd looked like I'd lost weight, another collegue who had been away for a month said I looked really withdrawn (Clue 3). I didn't think much of it. Did a 5km run this week plus 2 hour long weight sessions, out of interest I installed that 'My Fitness Pal' to see exactly how much carbs etc I have been eating..interestingly enough I got a warning alert that my calories were far too low (Clue 4), ha funny, that's probably because it had pulled my previous data 6 years back when I was trying to bulk up after marathon training.

    Anyway cue this morning, casual Friday at work. I go to put on my new jeans only purchased a couple months back ..huh need to go in a few belt notches..and the legs are kind of loose, these used to fit me well (Clue 5)

    Yeah I'm done. I didn't do this to lose any more than a bit of a holiday belly. My actual weight has only dropped maybe 2-3 kgs max and I've still got a little left to lose on the belly..but I hadn't planned on losing any bulk on my legs or torso as well they didn't exactly have any fat on them.

    Still I have learnt a lot.

    1. I now know how to lose excess weight in a short period of time.
    2. I have some terrific meal alternatives which I can mix in with my normal eating to balance out the odd poor-eating days.
    3. I can massively improve concentration levels if I cut out carbs from my work-day lunches
    4. I don't need carbs to train
    5. Fats are not the enemy when trying to lose weight

    Now the goal is to try and pack on some bulk again so my damn clothes fit!


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