All Blacks v Springboks



  • @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Having a situation of lots of big wins does not reduce our chances of losing. Our winning % has not changed just because the size of the victories has.

    The thing is that each game we win by 20 points is not much practice on to how to win hard games. I think that's the point of the original post.

    We tend to crack "inexplicably" in exactly the same way. An AB team expecting another romp gets a hard time by an opponent who defends sturdily and does not let our counter-attack get going.



  • If we finish tight games the way we did this test then we'll win far more than we lose. We were absolutely dominating the final quarter, the Boks defended for their lives but still needed a fair slice of luck to avoid defeat. As @mariner4life says, if we were camped on our own line with no chance of victory that would be concerning, but as it stands we pretty much always finish the stronger team.

    If we can avoid conceding 31 points to 5 in the middle period then I think we should be OK.



  • @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Say what? It's bad? Since when?



  • @akan004 said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    Copied this from Nigel Yalden's facebook page re BBBR.

    "Trust me mate, he's had a scan, even they say he hasn't. Reliably informed that he spend most of yesterday's training session running and down stair in Westpac Stadium. Picking that would jar the buggery out of any shoulder, so can't be too bad - we are inquiring though mate."

    Any more news from Nigel RE BBBR?



  • @unite said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    Copied this from Nigel Yalden's facebook page re BBBR.

    "Trust me mate, he's had a scan, even they say he hasn't. Reliably informed that he spend most of yesterday's training session running and down stair in Westpac Stadium. Picking that would jar the buggery out of any shoulder, so can't be too bad - we are inquiring though mate."

    Any more news from Nigel RE BBBR?

    Nothing new per his fb page.



  • @booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Say what? It's bad? Since when?

    Winning isn't bad. Just that winning big isn't necessarily better than winning small.

    Our recent massive victories over the Boks was not good preparation for the last game.

    We have a game plan that I think tends to magnify our strengths and our weaknesses. When we play well we win by lots. But we equally come unstuck when it doesn't work.

    I'd prefer a game plan that moved away from this emphasis on counter-attack, and assuming we wear our opposition down. I'd like to see us able to work on penetrating solid defences.

    Because when we hit the 2019 RWC you can bet no-one, crazy Australians aside, will attempt to beat us playing open rugby.



  • @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Say what? It's bad? Since when?

    Winning isn't bad. Just that winning big isn't necessarily better than winning small.

    Our recent massive victories over the Boks was not good preparation for the last game.

    We have a game plan that I think tends to magnify our strengths and our weaknesses. When we play well we win by lots. But we equally come unstuck when it doesn't work.

    I'd prefer a game plan that moved away from this emphasis on counter-attack, and assuming we wear our opposition down. I'd like to see us able to work on penetrating solid defences.

    Because when we hit the 2019 RWC you can bet no-one, crazy Australians aside, will attempt to beat us playing open rugby.

    But history has shown us that teams step up at the World Cup and a well organised, determined defence can be really hard to break down without taking a few risks. The All Blacks showed they could score 6 tries against such a defence without the defence every really crumbling.

    Hansen's message to J Barrett and A Smith (for it was they who took the bad decisions that led to tries) is not don't take quick throw-ins or don't take tap penalties . It will be don't take quick throw-ins from a kick that left the whole Bok defensive line in your face and don't take tap penalties when there is no huge gap to exploit. The whole mantra of the ABs since Henry took over is to make decisions based on what you see - the mantra is not "put away the razzle-dazzle until you're desperate". There will be mistakes playing like that but by forcing the opposition defence to make tough decisions under pressure eventually the gap will appear and the tries will come.



  • Be nice if that win got a few more Bok players keen to stay at home, rather than miss the opportunity to play the ABs...imagine how gutted these 2 guys will be not being able to step up for the next match AT HOME in front of thier own fans.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/107262687/springboks-lose-five-players-for-all-blacks-rematch-in-pretoria



  • What is the latest on World Rugby enforced player availability?

    Do internationals still take precedence and these players are choosing not to play? Or is that the club's contract can overrule international matches?

    I thought the rugby championship was in the official window and clubs couldn't refuse to release players?



  • I guess they are "choosing" not to play. Same as many PI players "choose" to turn down international honours when playing in France. However some of them were signed on when SA didn't pick overseas players so you can see how their clubs would be a bit miffed, the fact they'd be there during the international windows was probably reflected in their contract money.

    @Chester-Draws "Winning isn't bad. Just that winning big isn't necessarily better than winning small.

    Our recent massive victories over the Boks was not good preparation for the last game."

    That makes no sense at all, our previous game we won, just, by one point - and we should have lost.



  • @davesofthunder said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    What is the latest on World Rugby enforced player availability?

    Do internationals still take precedence and these players are choosing not to play? Or is that the club's contract can overrule international matches?

    I thought the rugby championship was in the official window and clubs couldn't refuse to release players?

    3 Matches in the June Global Release Period and 3 Matches in the November Global Release Period.

    For inter-hemisphere availability for matches outside those Global Release Periods the club would need to agree to release the player.



  • @davesofthunder said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    What is the latest on World Rugby enforced player availability?

    Do internationals still take precedence and these players are choosing not to play? Or is that the club's contract can overrule international matches?

    I thought the rugby championship was in the official window and clubs couldn't refuse to release players?

    The TRC (and the 6 nations) are not in the international window. Never have been.

    That's why a pre-requisite to be included in the competition is that the nation has home based professional rugby so they have control of player availability. Hence Argentina joining TRC only after Sanzar increased SR to include Jaguares. Hence why a PI nation will never be included



  • @kiwipie said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @booboo said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @chester-draws said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @mariner4life said in All Blacks v Springboks:

    @akan004 cherry pick to make the sky fall?

    how about looking at it like this. in 21 tests we are 17-1-3. In 13 of those tests we have hosed them.

    We lost a game where we had 14 blokes for 3/4s of the game
    We lost a dead rubber Bledisloe away.
    We lost one of the best tests in years.

    You know, now i think about it, we are 0-3 where we have scored less points than the opposition. That's not what you expect from a team with this much talent.

    Try looking at it this way. We never, ever lose big. if it's a loss, it's by a bee's dick. We are balls deep in every game we play. That's a pretty sweet position to be in.

    What you say is true, except the implication that somehow winning big a lot is good.

    Say what? It's bad? Since when?

    Winning isn't bad. Just that winning big isn't necessarily better than winning small.

    Our recent massive victories over the Boks was not good preparation for the last game.

    We have a game plan that I think tends to magnify our strengths and our weaknesses. When we play well we win by lots. But we equally come unstuck when it doesn't work.

    I'd prefer a game plan that moved away from this emphasis on counter-attack, and assuming we wear our opposition down. I'd like to see us able to work on penetrating solid defences.

    Because when we hit the 2019 RWC you can bet no-one, crazy Australians aside, will attempt to beat us playing open rugby.

    But history has shown us that teams step up at the World Cup and a well organised, determined defence can be really hard to break down without taking a few risks. The All Blacks showed they could score 6 tries against such a defence without the defence every really crumbling.

    Hansen's message to J Barrett and A Smith (for it was they who took the bad decisions that led to tries) is not don't take quick throw-ins or don't take tap penalties . It will be don't take quick throw-ins from a kick that left the whole Bok defensive line in your face and don't take tap penalties when there is no huge gap to exploit. The whole mantra of the ABs since Henry took over is to make decisions based on what you see - the mantra is not "put away the razzle-dazzle until you're desperate". There will be mistakes playing like that but by forcing the opposition defence to make tough decisions under pressure eventually the gap will appear and the tries will come.

    I agree KP. People were saying there were similarities with Cardiff. Rubbish.

    Cardiff we struggled to score points. Last Saturday we looked likely throughout and as we saw crossed the line 6 times. We kept attacking when the pressure was on which has been a successful formula. We made mistakes and whilst disappointing, it was nothing like Cardiff where we looked rattled and disorganised closing that out.



  • Who is the defence coach at the moment? They've shipped a few points over the last few games.



  • @toddy Scott McLeod...?



  • Anyone got stats from the test?

    In that second half we really mixed up the lineout jumpers. Value of having 4 genuine reliable options.



  • @act-crusader

    0_1537508011482_00ef48f6-b445-447f-bb84-cc1110944104-image.png

    0_1537508149537_47f99e71-0d75-4b0e-a1f4-7dfc62300a2d-image.png

    TA - try assist
    LB - line break
    LBA - line break assists
    RUN - runs
    RM - run metres
    OFF - offloads
    TB - tackle busts
    LOW - line-outs won

    Source: Fox Sports



  • **"There was no such joy a week later against the fired-up South Africans and Hansen had to go back to the 2007 World Cup quarter-final defeat to France for the last time he saw such a lack of awareness from his men.

    "Our game management was next door to zero … that was our biggest problem," he said. "No one's going to get hung out to dry for us losing. We just have to pick up on the little things.

    "I think back to 2007 as the last time I can think of the game that we so poorly managed. It was the pressure of the scoreboard and the pressure of the event and this time the same thing happened.

    "We got really individualistic and tried to do it all by ourselves. All we had to do was take a big breath and maybe take a shot at goal in the 66th minute and that gives you three points and maybe get a try and that puts you in front. That's one example.

    "A dropped goal wouldn't be bad either would it, and we couldn't do one of those in 2007 because it's not the thing that the five-eighth at that time is used to doing. It's not one that Beauden [Barrett] has done, I don't think he's ever got one [in tests]."**

    Pretty damning from Hansen about leadership and management there!



  • Machpants said:

    **"There was no such joy a week later against the fired-up South Africans and Hansen had to go back to the 2007 World Cup quarter-final defeat to France for the last time he saw such a lack of awareness from his men.

    "Our game management was next door to zero … that was our biggest problem," he said. "No one's going to get hung out to dry for us losing. We just have to pick up on the little things.

    "I think back to 2007 as the last time I can think of the game that we so poorly managed. It was the pressure of the scoreboard and the pressure of the event and this time the same thing happened.

    "We got really individualistic and tried to do it all by ourselves. All we had to do was take a big breath and maybe take a shot at goal in the 66th minute and that gives you three points and maybe get a try and that puts you in front. That's one example.

    "A dropped goal wouldn't be bad either would it, and we couldn't do one of those in 2007 because it's not the thing that the five-eighth at that time is used to doing. It's not one that Beauden [Barrett] has done, I don't think he's ever got one [in tests]."**

    Pretty damning from Hansen about leadership and management there!

    Yeah pretty brutal assessment there. The fact is we did well to get back in the game after gifting them a big lead but when it came to the "championship minutes" we ch ch chok....fell short.
    Similar situation to the last Lions test. Despite getting fucked over by the dodgy non penalty call we still should have closed that game out.

    Really hope they can use this loss to get that hard edge where not only can we blow teams off the park after 50mins but if it comes down to the last 10 we march down field and put the game to bed. That is what that 2011-2015 team was so good at.



  • @bones Nerves





  • @pukunui And selecting the best side would help. ALB is a 12 and not a 13. Ben Smith is the best 15 so pick him there.



  • grumpy coach, good to see



  • Machpants said:

    grumpy coach, good to see

    Is he ever anything else?



  • Stargazer said:

    @act-crusader

    0_1537508011482_00ef48f6-b445-447f-bb84-cc1110944104-image.png

    0_1537508149537_47f99e71-0d75-4b0e-a1f4-7dfc62300a2d-image.png

    TA - try assist
    LB - line break
    LBA - line break assists
    RUN - runs
    RM - run metres
    OFF - offloads
    TB - tackle busts
    LOW - line-outs won

    Source: Fox Sports

    can you put Willie le Roux down for 1 LOW?



  • Toddy said:

    Who is the defence coach at the moment? They've shipped a few points over the last few games.

    possibly not in the defence coaching manual are 1. how to defend a poor quick throw option and 2. how to defend an intercept when backline is hot on attack



  • @nevorian We've looked a bit clueless out wide though.



  • This game was a nasty shock. Shades of Chicago 2016 in the All Blacks terrible option-taking and of Cardiff 2007 for poor game management. Massive credit to the Boks for making all those tackles and taking their chances in attack. The Old Foe is back.

    The All Blacks have been Bledisloe Cup holders for 16 years, the Number One team for 9 years and World Champions for 7. Success can breed success, but it can also breed complacency. Some of the All Blacks were complacent in Wellington.

    Hansen, Foster and Fox need to be unsentimental and weed out of Thier squad any players who ain't as hungry for success as their Saffa, Irish, Welsh or English peers. Winning back to back to back World Cups will require the All Blacks to work harder than any other international team in the next 13 and half months.


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