Breaking Potential terror attack Melbourne
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@jegga said in Breaking Potential terror attack Melbourne:
@act-crusader said in Breaking Potential terror attack Melbourne:
@jegga Trolley Man’s criminal record has caught up with him and police have charged him with a string of burglaries and other offences. The positive thing is that he does want to turn his life around.
Homeless people normally have a few issues with police and mental health issues or substance abuse so it’s not exactly surprising unfortunately. I hope they have something in place for the money they raised for him
Indeed. Trolley Man is well known in the CBD. I’ve spoken to him before and there is a bit going on there. Apparently that gofundme money will be held in trust.
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@no-quarter said in Breaking Potential terror attack Melbourne:
@Rembrandt nothing wrong with the PMs comments at all, was careful to specify the issue was not with all Muslims but with Islamic Extremism. Those people saying it was irresponsible are bare faced liars doing everything they can to shift focus away from the fundamentals that have taken root within their community.
This is the thing that really bugs me at the moment. Is it really Islamic extremism? Or is it just Islam as it is actually prescribed in the Qu'ran and Hadith, and this was just a guy following through with what it says?
Most (all?) Muslims believe Mohammed was unquestioningly the perfect man and that the Qu'ran is the literal and unalterable word of God. Now I've only read about 1/3rd of the Qu'ran but enough to get me pretty damn worried. I went to an Islamic open day at the Islamic museum here in Melbourne and asked a few telling questions and the response I got was 'well your version of the Qu'ran must be a bad translate' (I received mine from islam-australia.com) and then advised that I needed to speak Arabic to understand what was really meant...damn convenient that. I genuinely can't tell whether there is some subtleties I am missing or whether these folk, maybe out of fear or just sheer doctrinal or cultural brainwashing have never considered that their beliefs could be immoral..or even worse could they know and they just don't want people to find out?
When Armin Navabi went to Lakemba, Sydney a few weeks back to ask Muslims on the street there thoughts on criticising Islam an Australian born bloke proudly stated that that it's "Islam or death". This is exactly what the Qu'ran states so is this guy then a part of this Islamic extremism for believing in the Qu'ran as its written? Or would he only be an extremist when he raises the knife? To my mind its pretty obvious who he would be backing if he saw Kalif Shire Ali hacking away at Sisto and other passerby's, all he was doing was following through with the doctrine that he agrees with.
The last 2 attacks were within 5-10 minutes walk from me (Well last 3 if you count the Greek attack) and the fact I wasn't caught up was more chance than anything. My little sister narrowly avoided the last one, her manager had let her out of work a little early but she decided to have a wine with a colleague. If she hadn't the 5 minute walk to her tram stop would have put her exactly within hacking range of this jihadist.
I was already pretty concerned about Islam but when these issues become an actual existential threat to both yourself and your immediate family and you see the general populace not really giving a damn, or even worse excusing it all away, well it all becomes a little too real.
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@rembrandt said in Breaking Potential terror attack Melbourne:
@no-quarter said in Breaking Potential terror attack Melbourne:
@Rembrandt nothing wrong with the PMs comments at all, was careful to specify the issue was not with all Muslims but with Islamic Extremism. Those people saying it was irresponsible are bare faced liars doing everything they can to shift focus away from the fundamentals that have taken root within their community.
This is the thing that really bugs me at the moment. Is it really Islamic extremism? Or is it just Islam as it is actually prescribed in the Qu'ran and Hadith, and this was just a guy following through with what it says?
Most (all?) Muslims believe Mohammed was unquestioningly the perfect man and that the Qu'ran is the literal and unalterable word of God. Now I've only read about 1/3rd of the Qu'ran but enough to get me pretty damn worried. I went to an Islamic open day at the Islamic museum here in Melbourne and asked a few telling questions and the response I got was 'well your version of the Qu'ran must be a bad translate' (I received mine from islam-australia.com) and then advised that I needed to speak Arabic to understand what was really meant...damn convenient that. I genuinely can't tell whether there is some subtleties I am missing or whether these folk, maybe out of fear or just sheer doctrinal or cultural brainwashing have never considered that their beliefs could be immoral..or even worse could they know and they just don't want people to find out?
When Armin Navabi went to Lakemba, Sydney a few weeks back to ask Muslims on the street there thoughts on criticising Islam an Australian born bloke proudly stated that that it's "Islam or death". This is exactly what the Qu'ran states so is this guy then a part of this Islamic extremism for believing in the Qu'ran as its written? Or would he only be an extremist when he raises the knife? To my mind its pretty obvious who he would be backing if he saw Kalif Shire Ali hacking away at Sisto and other passerby's, all he was doing was following through with the doctrine that he agrees with.
The last 2 attacks were within 5-10 minutes walk from me (Well last 3 if you count the Greek attack) and the fact I wasn't caught up was more chance than anything. My little sister narrowly avoided the last one, her manager had let her out of work a little early but she decided to have a wine with a colleague. If she hadn't the 5 minute walk to her tram stop would have put her exactly within hacking range of this jihadist.
I was already pretty concerned about Islam but when these issues become an actual existential threat to both yourself and your immediate family and you see the general populace not really giving a damn, or even worse excusing it all away, well it all becomes a little too real.
It is a discussion that has to be had, particularly in host countries that have had to erect bollards in their main streets and spend billions to prevent this shit. Yes it may be exploited by the racist fringe, but pretending there isn't a serious problem associated with this religion is only going to allow that racist fringe to grow not suppress it. There is no harm in having an open and frank discussion about it. This immediate knee-jerk screaming of racism or bigotry after every single one of these attacks is beyond absurd. Same with this issue of African gangs. If there is a problem then work together to deal with it. Pretending it doesn't exist because it involves people with a different skin colour is not only bizarre but is also going to make the problem far worse in the future.
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The AFP said 15 terror plots had been “disrupted” since 2014. Four plots foiled plots were described as “major.
Move along, nothing to see here. Just a minor irritant.
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Artistic bollards. The new normal? Damn that pack of lone wolves.
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@rancid-schnitzel Those bollards sicken me. In Melbourne they are generally dressed up in Rainbows, pro-refugee or anti-Australian propaganda. The sheer irony being that we have to have them because we have imported clearly a very large number of anti-australian refugees/migrants who want to murder gays amongst many other others.The idiocy here is out of this world.
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@Rembrandt you make good points about the Qu'ran. It's a tough read alright and not difficult to see what drives these extremists, they really just follow it to the letter. Putting terrorism aside there are some widespread very backwards beliefs within the Muslim community which fly right in the face of the values and rights we have fought hard for in the west.
Sam Harris was not wrong when he described Islam as the motherload of bad ideas.
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@no-quarter said in Breaking Potential terror attack Melbourne:
@Rembrandt you make good points about the Qu'ran. It's a tough read alright and not difficult to see what drives these extremists, they really just follow it to the letter. Putting terrorism aside there are some widespread very backwards beliefs within the Muslim community which fly right in the face of the values and rights we have fought hard for in the west.
Sam Harris was not wrong when he described Islam as the motherload of bad ideas.
Then why is it indulged in a way that would never be allowed for hard core Christianity (or even pretty standard Christianity for that manner)? Is it simply because the majority of Muslims have a different coloured skin and any criticism of anyone with a different coloured skin has to be racism and bigotry by default? Is it that standard knee-jerk post-modernist bullshit where our culture, history, values suck and everyone else is better? It's certainly not based on facts or any form of intellectual consistency. Islam is an ideology, a set of ideas. Equating criticism of Islam to racism is beyond absurd.
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...and it's just come through that at least 1 of the guys just been arrested for planning a massacre in Melbourne was previously a preacher at the Islamic recruitment stand next across from where Sisto was murdered. No doubt they'll be there as they are every Saturday preaching "Islam or death" with full support of the newly re-elected Labor Premier.