Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)



  • Relying on fitness towards the end to win is so Gordon Tietjens. Great for a while, even a long time. Eventually the opposing squads cotton on and it ends increasingly badly...



  • @no-quarter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @rotated said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @rocky-rockbottom said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    worst part is if Hansen's ego leads to him digging his heels in re;selections/positions, reducing us to just hoping the failures somehow get better instead of proactively rocketing them up the arse.

    Hopefully he remembers that the 2011 team and tactics in large part was a response to the 2008/9 Boks. They finally stopped trying to impose a helter-skelter style and admit they had to be able to negate and withstand the box kick first and foremost and becoming more physical in the forwards.

    I would prefer he accepts the Ireland/BIL style of game is giving them fits and perhaps select and play accordingly. Our aerial game on defence needs to improve and our kicking game needs to improve - to achieve either it would take a tough personnel decision.

    Do we have anyone that can implement a better kicking game though? Beauden and DMac are erratic, Mo'unga more consistent but still not great (am comparing him to world class players like Carter here). Our midfield can't kick, BFA again not a great kicking game. I don't think we have the personnel - we look much, much better when we keep ball in hand so I think our gameplan really needs to centre around that. Which maybe it will come WC time.

    Sheesh NQ that’s starting to sound like an Aussie “we don’t have the cattle” post....



  • @donsteppa said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    Relying on fitness towards the end to win is so Gordon Tietjens. Great for a while, even a long time. Eventually the opposing squads cotton on and it ends increasingly badly...

    I see what you did there 👏



  • @siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.

    One of those 1014 podcasts mentioned that every team wants to kick in that part of the field. First I'd properly thought of it but looking around it seems on the mark.

    Those podcasts/videos really are an eye opener into the complexities of the pro game. Little things like spreading rucks and making defenders run an extra metre or so or where a defender goes after a tackle. Pretty much analysed to the nth degree.

    I think the kicking is more about execution than not kicking. Just my take

    I agree. I actually don’t mind 90% of the kicking options we’ve take but our execution has been poor. But you can actually see what they are trying to achieve but the lack of accuracy has made us look ordinary.

    I like Ben Smith at fullback but it’s plain as day why he plays on the wing because he’s the one guy that actually chases the high ball in attack. We need both our wingers to do that and as Barrett drops back we have sufficient cover for them to do so.

    If DMac is persisted with I too wouldn’t mind seeing him on the wing for that reason. He has the pace and the game to be a very good chase down winger. I’ve never rated his kicking game.



  • @no-quarter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.

    Yeah I didn't even mention the halfbacks. Both of their kicking games are shit, and no idea about TTT. It's just not a strong point for us right now.

    Thing is their kicking games have only recently been shit...conveniently timed to coincide with the ABs deciding they chase kicks at walking pace. And how fucking long do they take to set up for a standard kick, which they spray anywhere like in Me, Myself and Irene.

    There's just got to be more to it.



  • @act-crusader Hart's plan...give the ball to Jonah?



  • @act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    I like Ben Smith at fullback but it’s plain as day why he plays on the wing because he’s the one guy that actually chases the high ball in attack. We need both our wingers to do that and as Barrett drops back we have sufficient cover for them to do so.

    Yeah - I saw George Bridge chasing a couple of kicks that looked like forlorn hopes in Japan - but, George ran like a man possessed and good things happened.

    I wish he was in Italy this week!



  • @majorrage said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @hooroo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @majorrage said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @mikethesnow said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    Keeping your powder dry.

    Thought the preferred NZ heritage is Scottish not English.

    Get fucked.

    Beaten. Deservedly.

    Learn or fuck off.

    I really don’t get this post at all.

    IT's quite easy to interpret.

    He doesn't think we are keeping our powder dry and even saying so is a very English thing to do, so please go have some action, because we were well beaten, learn from mistakes or please go away.

    Does that make it easier 🙂

    Less clear, if anything!

    Hooroo explained it perfectly.

    How about looking at it this way.

    Shag et al's masterstroke is to keep their innovative and WC winning strategy under wraps one year out from the tournament in the hope that all the personnel involved in implementing said strategy will be fit & in form come tournament time.

    If losses in test matches against NH teams is the result, so be it.

    Sounds reasonable. Said no Kiwi ever.



  • RS talkback has been pretty reasonable since yesterday, maybe all the loons are still hitting things, or maybe they only call up at night!



  • @taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    RS talkback has been pretty reasonable since yesterday, maybe all the loons are still hitting things, or maybe they only call up at night!

    @snowy has ditched the phone for the fern.



  • @mikethesnow said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    How about looking at it this way.

    Shag et al's masterstroke is to keep their innovative and WC winning strategy under wraps one year out from the tournament in the hope that all the personnel involved in implementing said strategy will be fit & in form come tournament time.

    If losses in test matches against NH teams is the result, so be it.

    Sounds reasonable. Said no Kiwi ever.

    I agree. This isn't football with friendlys, test matches matter, keeping the Irish from winning vs the ABs in Dublin for the first time EVER mattered especially.

    I hope Joe Schmidt can still sleep at night, destroying more than a hundred years of a legacy of his home country within two years. Traitorous fluffybunny! But please come save us from Fozzy though!



  • @mikethesnow said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @majorrage said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @hooroo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @majorrage said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @mikethesnow said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    Keeping your powder dry.

    Thought the preferred NZ heritage is Scottish not English.

    Get fucked.

    Beaten. Deservedly.

    Learn or fuck off.

    I really don’t get this post at all.

    IT's quite easy to interpret.

    He doesn't think we are keeping our powder dry and even saying so is a very English thing to do, so please go have some action, because we were well beaten, learn from mistakes or please go away.

    Does that make it easier 🙂

    Less clear, if anything!

    Hooroo explained it perfectly.

    How about looking at it this way.

    Shag et al's masterstroke is to keep their innovative and WC winning strategy under wraps one year out from the tournament in the hope that all the personnel involved in implementing said strategy will be fit & in form come tournament time.

    If losses in test matches against NH teams is the result, so be it.

    Sounds reasonable. Said no Kiwi ever.

    Ok, I follow now. I was confused by the second 2 sentences which still in all honesty make no sense to me. National chips, and all.



  • @bones said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @no-quarter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @no-quarter Also, we did so many stupid box kicks/high kicks in the middle of the park at times when we should have been holding the ball. Its play like this that makes me lean towards the keeping the powder dry theory.

    Yeah I didn't even mention the halfbacks. Both of their kicking games are shit, and no idea about TTT. It's just not a strong point for us right now.

    Thing is their kicking games have only recently been shit...conveniently timed to coincide with the ABs deciding they chase kicks at walking pace. And how fucking long do they take to set up for a standard kick, which they spray anywhere like in Me, Myself and Irene.

    There's just got to be more to it.

    Yeah, poor kicking has been a feature this year. That period against England when Crotty came on, and also between 55 - 70 minutes against Ireland we kept ball in hand more and started opening them up. I think if we do that for longer periods nobody can really go with us - probably easier said than done.



  • I think a black mark against Read's captaincy in this match which has been mentioned in passing is the decision to take the 3 and get within 7 points right when we had them on the back foot. That was very surprising at the time and in hindsight a very poor decision as Ireland sent the subsequent kick off long then pinned us in our own half for most of the final 10 minutes.

    If that's a 3 point game instead of a 7 point game then we probably wouldn't be as panicked trying to run the length of the field for a try, with the bonus confidence boost scoring gives you.



  • @no-quarter although I guess if we're going down the powder dry route, you could point to that they wanted to see how they could respond and how the players reacted to being down by 7 points, with no hope of a win?



  • Most teams aren't going to lay all their cards on the table less than 12 months from a world cup. So I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest that they played this game differently than they would have a must-win RWC game.

    I don't think anyone would have predicted that we wouldn't score a try and that Retallick, Read and B. Barrett would all be poor and our best players would be Ardie, Goodhue and S. Barrett. Hindsight is 20/20 but if you had told the team before they game that if they approached it the way they did, this would be the outcome, there's no way they wouldn't have played differently. Not saying they would have won but the idea that this was the outcome of pulling out all the stops is naive.

    This doesn't absolve the coaches or players but it does put it into context. If we rock up playing like this against a tier 1 nation next year, we should expect a similar result.



  • A few minutes past midnight and a truck was seen departing Rugby HQ in Wellington with large 24 gallon drums. One sauce said he saw the driver look inside each of them before carting them away. Some were heavier than others. The same sauce wondered if any contained this mysterious dry powder that has been rumoured to have been in the basement under 24 hour security since the pre-RWC loss to the Wallabies in Sydney in 1991.

    Drum after drum, some with worn out signage - “1998-2002 master plan”, “losses we had to have”, “choking talking points”, “blame the grey”, “We wanted Deans”, “Richard Loe really is a nice guy”, “Mealamu and Christian values”, “Isaac Ross X-files”, “footage of Taine doing sit-ups and pull-ups”, “that handbag”.

    One drum that took three guys to move had a inordinate number of random stickers on it with names of players, too numerous to see then all, but some names were Kevin O’Neill, Mark Carter, Jimmy Cowan, Aled de Malmache, Sosene Anesi, Pat Lam, just to name a few. As the drum was rolled into position on the truck, a larger sticker was now visible that simply read “photo albums”.



  • @act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    A few minutes past midnight and a truck was seen departing Rugby HQ in Wellington with large 24 gallon drums. One sauce said he saw the driver look inside each of them before carting them away. Some were heavier than others. The same sauce wondered if any contained this mysterious dry powder that has been rumoured to have been in the basement under 24 hour security since the pre-RWC loss to the Wallabies in Sydney in 1991.

    Drum after drum, some with worn out signage - “1998-2002 master plan”, “losses we had to have”, “choking talking points”, “blame the grey”, “We wanted Deans”, “Richard Loe really is a nice guy”, “Mealamu and Christian values”, “Isaac Ross X-files”, “footage of Taine doing sit-ups and pull-ups”, “that handbag”.

    One drum that took three guys to move had a inordinate number of random stickers on it with names of players, too numerous to see then all, but some names were Kevin O’Neill, Mark Carter, Jimmy Cowan, Aled de Malmache, Sosene Anesi, Pat Lam, just to name a few. As the drum was rolled into position on the truck, a larger sticker was now visible that simply read “photo albums”.

    👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏



  • @hooroo

    Spoken like a true history graduate.



  • Well that was a forgettable 2 weeks display by the ABS. What I can't understand is why play the best fullback on the wing, why is ALB not given more chances, Aaron Smith is out of form, TJ should've started with TTT on the bench. Every team runs at our 10/12 axes, cause we do not have a big hitting 6 like a Jerry Collins (rip) or Jerome Kaino. Its all good having forwards that pass and run like backs, but do your core duties first and foremost. Sam Whitelock looks old and tired, same with Read and Franks. Who is our defensive and attacking coaches? We've leaked more tries than usual and our attack is so predictable. One swallow doesn't make a summer, but geez bring back Wayne Smith, and please Steve Hansen pick Akira Ioane. And one last thing: I do not see any evidence of our much vaunted conditioning. Rant over GO THE MIGHTY ALL BLACKS. Sorry one last rant: IF I EVER SEE ANOTHER BOX KICK IN MY LIFETIME I WILL CHOKE SLAM MYSELF😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 😡 As you were.😁



  • Though I am not a fan, I think a player like Tuipolutu could have been useful during the last minutes.



  • @bones said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    RS talkback has been pretty reasonable since yesterday, maybe all the loons are still hitting things, or maybe they only call up at night!

    @snowy has ditched the phone for the fern.

    I threw the phone through the tele about 78 minutes in.



  • @cgrant said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    Though I am not a fan, I think a player like Tuipolutu could have been useful during the last minutes.

    We already had enough locks on the field that were dropping ball...



  • @act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    A few minutes past midnight and a truck was seen departing Rugby HQ in Wellington with large 24 gallon drums. One sauce said he saw the driver look inside each of them before carting them away. Some were heavier than others. The same sauce wondered if any contained this mysterious dry powder that has been rumoured to have been in the basement under 24 hour security since the pre-RWC loss to the Wallabies in Sydney in 1991.

    Tomato or BBQ sauce?



  • @machpants secret sauce.



  • @bones said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @machpants secret sauce.

    Most kebab places these days only let you choose three sources



  • If this powder dry theory turns out to have a skerrick of reality, it's still not the reason we lost.

    Ireland played and executed better.
    There effort and commitment without the ball was magnificent. They were hungrier and held onto their tackles like demons.

    For all our pointed out short comings, we can take nothing away from Ireland who planned and executed a fine way to beat NZ

    Kudos to them



  • @siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    Ireland played and executed better.

    I think we played enough rugby to win, but our execution sucked balls; from our aimless kick and hope to dropping balls that would be caught the other 9 times out of 10, and a few players had thier 1/10 handling skills on show.

    I guess they werent hugely far off in this game, and we keep hearing there is so little between the top teams that one has an off day and thats you done.

    The odd thing was, how they didnt change things up, or around when what we were doing wasnt working, whereas last week v England, we adapted and adjusted - deliberate or just Ireland wouldnt let us change? Bit of both IMO.



  • 0_1542661442531_1ca45668-a57b-4b97-b697-33aaf9f42ee5-image.png



  • @bones said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    RS talkback has been pretty reasonable since yesterday, maybe all the loons are still hitting things, or maybe they only call up at night!

    @snowy has ditched the phone for the fern.

    It's great to see the older generation figuring out how to log in and join the discussion online. They provide the perfect combination of grumpiness and cynicism to ensure nobody ever gets too positive about anything.



  • @stargazer said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    0_1542661442531_1ca45668-a57b-4b97-b697-33aaf9f42ee5-image.png

    Australia snuck ahead of Scotland after beating fucken Italy?

    Man fuck that and fuck you too @NTA



  • @mn5 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @bones said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @machpants secret sauce.

    Most kebab places these days only let you choose three sources

    Thanks, as always an insightful post that adds depth to the discussion.



  • @no-quarter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @bones said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    RS talkback has been pretty reasonable since yesterday, maybe all the loons are still hitting things, or maybe they only call up at night!

    @snowy has ditched the phone for the fern.

    It's great to see the older generation figuring out how to log in and join the discussion online. They provide the perfect combination of grumpiness and cynicism to ensure nobody ever gets too positive about anything.

    Hey, I have been pissing people off here for 20 years!

    As for the rugby - It's all about balance. We might now have dry powder but lost, so we should have used that powder to blow the Irish off the field. We can think about next year, well, next year. Live for the moment kids.



  • @mn5 I’m not sure how all this ranking palava works and usually take very little notice of it, but given Australia’s recent record, an(y) away win is sure to bolster their points.



  • @siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    If this powder dry theory turns out to have a skerrick of reality, it's still not the reason we lost.

    Ireland played and executed better.
    There effort and commitment without the ball was magnificent. They were hungrier and held onto their tackles like demons.

    For all our pointed out short comings, we can take nothing away from Ireland who planned and executed a fine way to beat NZ

    Kudos to them

    Their defense in the final 10 when we threw everything at them was nothing short of incredible given how buggered they were. The kind of defense that wins you big test matches.





  • @act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @mn5 I’m not sure how all this ranking palava works and usually take very little notice of it, but given Australia’s recent record, an(y) away win is sure to bolster their points.

    I woulda thought hammering Fiji and losing a close one to S.A. woulda sufficed. Ah well, here's hoping they put the greasy Argies to the sword this weekend.....



  • @act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @mn5 I’m not sure how all this ranking palava works and usually take very little notice of it, but given Australia’s recent record, an(y) away win is sure to bolster their points.

    I find it a bit strange you could actually get points beating up on Italy.



  • @taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    @siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:

    Ireland played and executed better.

    I think we played enough rugby to win, but our execution sucked balls; from our aimless kick and hope to dropping balls that would be caught the other 9 times out of 10, and a few players had thier 1/10 handling skills on show.

    I guess they werent hugely far off in this game, and we keep hearing there is so little between the top teams that one has an off day and thats you done.

    The odd thing was, how they didnt change things up, or around when what we were doing wasnt working, whereas last week v England, we adapted and adjusted - deliberate or just Ireland wouldnt let us change? Bit of both IMO.

    Pressure, their defensive pressure was huge. It doesn't matter how good you are, trying to catch a ball with a guy already in your face about to whack you is hard. England didn't bring that pressure last week, and our RC competitors haven't brought it in years. Last time i saw it was the Lions, and how did that go? We don't have a plan to beat it, because it appears the plan is to do what we always do, because it always works.



  • @mariner4life an accurate kicking game would help, our kicking (and chase) was so far from accurate though, so we werent able to create gaps in thier line by making them drop players back to cover clever well placed kicks with pressure from chasers.

    I think we were looking good at times against the Lions rush d, but personell changes made it tougher to deal with.


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