1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs





  • These things are a bit pointless at the best of times but why have they started making up these stupid phantom games? They did it with the cricket the other day too - 80s Vs now.

    Just compare player for player or leave it out.



  • @taniwharugby

    The eye catching comparison is, for me, between McCaw and Jones. Both head and shoulders above their peers. On the one hand you have McCaw’s longevity and the other the way Jones was so different and do much better than his competitors. Jones edges it for me.



  • Even in fantasy land SBW concedes a card.

    It's an interesting comparison because the '87 side didn't really have a past and the '15 side didn't have a future before/after their respective World Cups. Hard to truly compare the two because the bench was the '15 side's biggest weapon, while being nonexistent in the amateur era.

    1995 side better than both, 2007 side a darkhorse for a podium position depending on your take on Cardiff.



  • I've never been a fan of comparing players from different eras, the game has changed, training methods, conditioning, reffing...

    1987 were for all intents and purposes, Amateur, 2015 well and truly full time professionals.

    I suspect many of the better Mitre 10 cup teams today would give that '87 AB team a run for thier money based on current player size and conditioning, but that shouldnt detract for how good it was in that era.

    Warwick Taylor playing at 12 (5ft 10, 79kg) up against Nonu (6ft 108kg...)



  • Grant Fox links the two teams of course. First Five for the 1987 team and in the coaching box for the 2015 final.

    I would love to see a back row of Sir Michael Jones, the 🐐 and Niko Jones rock up together for some club side or something.



  • @Catogrande said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @taniwharugby

    The eye catching comparison is, for me, between McCaw and Jones. Both head and shoulders above their peers. On the one hand you have McCaw’s longevity and the other the way Jones was so different and do much better than his competitors. Jones edges it for me.

    Jones the better athlete, but I'd need to have McCaw as captain. That level of example and competitiveness can't be beaten.



  • @antipodean said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    ones the better athlete, but I'd need to have McCaw as captain. That level of example and competitiveness can't be beaten.

    been plenty of better natural athletes than McCaw, but his work rate, determination and rugby brain makes up for any supposed deficiencies in his athletic ability (which was still bloody good) that sets him apart



  • @antipodean said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @Catogrande said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @taniwharugby

    The eye catching comparison is, for me, between McCaw and Jones. Both head and shoulders above their peers. On the one hand you have McCaw’s longevity and the other the way Jones was so different and do much better than his competitors. Jones edges it for me.

    Jones the better athlete, but I'd need to have McCaw as captain. That level of example and competitiveness can't be beaten.

    Not for me, for me Jones is the better athlete, the better rugby player and has the same competitiveness (and @taniwharugby the work rate, determination and rugby brain). I wont pick a player for their captaincy skills Lee Germon style. I also don't think McCaw had athletic deficiencies, Jones just has godlike ones 😉 .

    Kaino screwed it for me, until he went stratospheric I'd always select McCaw at 7 and Jones at 6 in my 'best of' team so I wouldn't have this dilemma.

    McCaw always starts on Sundays though.



  • @Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @antipodean said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @Catogrande said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @taniwharugby

    The eye catching comparison is, for me, between McCaw and Jones. Both head and shoulders above their peers. On the one hand you have McCaw’s longevity and the other the way Jones was so different and do much better than his competitors. Jones edges it for me.

    Jones the better athlete, but I'd need to have McCaw as captain. That level of example and competitiveness can't be beaten.

    Not for me, for me Jones is the better athlete, the better rugby player and has the same competitiveness (and @taniwharugby the work rate, determination and rugby brain). I wont pick a player for their captaincy skills Lee Germon style. I also don't think McCaw had athletic deficiencies, Jones just has godlike ones 😉 .

    Kaino screwed it for me, until he went stratospheric I'd always select McCaw at 7 and Jones at 6 in my 'best of' team so I wouldn't have this dilemma.

    McCaw always starts on Sundays though.

    I was having the conversation with my step father over the holidays. He in his own right was a very good play who played 7/6/8. I asked him who was the best ever in his eyes as he lived through Meads playing etc and for him it was easy. Michael Jones hands down. Then McCaw. Pretty much gave the same reasons as you listed, @Nepia

    I was a bit surprised as I always assumed he would go for Ritchie.



  • Either the writer really loved Olo Brown and thought he should have been picked 5 years before he was, or didn't do quite enough research.


  • Banned

    Waste of time. It would be an absolute massacre. 2015 go to the bench and bring on BB and SBW. Who do 87 bring on? Bernie McCahill? Making these comparisons is utterly pointless.

    The only chance the 87 lot would have is if the 87 "rules" permitting blatant thuggery unsettled the 2015ers. But then again, who wants to fark with Kaino, BBBR, Nonu etc. if given free reign to sort shit out the old-fashioned way.



  • Combined team

    Ben Smith, John Kirwan, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Wayne Shelford, Richie McCaw (cpt), Alan Whetton, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Sean Fitzpatrick (almost put Keven here), Joe Moody

    Subs: Sonny Bill Williams (covers midfield) David Kirk (9), Beauden Barrett (10 and back3), Michael Jones (6,7,8), Dane Coles (2), Richard Loe, Charlie Faumuina, Jerome Kaino (lock cover)



  • @dK Damn, your selection is as muddled as your (original) numbering. 😉

    No Kaino? McDowell over Moody pretty easy. Hmm, I guess I'll have to work out mine now.



  • @Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @dK Damn, your selection is as muddled as your (original) numbering. 😉

    No Kaino? McDowell over Moody pretty easy. Hmm, I guess I'll have to work out mine now.

    To be fair, Kaino was a toss up with AJ, and you can see Kaino is on the reserve bench to cover (cough) Lock. McDowell is tiny compared to modern day props and would be pissed all over by any modern team, can I draw your attention to his short lived come back for Auckland



  • @dK said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @dK Damn, your selection is as muddled as your (original) numbering. 😉

    No Kaino? McDowell over Moody pretty easy. Hmm, I guess I'll have to work out mine now.

    To be fair, Kaino was a toss up with AJ, and you can see Kaino is on the reserve bench to cover (cough) Lock. McDowell is tiny compared to modern day props and would be pissed all over by any modern team, can I draw your attention to his short lived come back for Auckland

    Ok, here's mine for others to tear down. Also, I'm rating players by their standing in their era etc - McDowell was pretty dominant, and I'm pretty sure if he had come through in the professional era he'd be up to the job. Otherwise it would just be select all 2015 players.

    Kipper, John Kirwan, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Ben Smith, Dan Carter, Aaron Smith, Wayne Shelford (c), Michael Jones, Jerome Kaino, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Sean Fitzpatrick, Steve McDowell.

    Subs: SBW, Fox, Kirk, McCaw, Whetton (G or A), Loe, Moody, Coles.

    Fatty Savea gets nowhere near my team on his 2015 performances (one game against France is not a season) so Smith is good enough to switch from the right and if DC goes down in the first minute I want our second best 10 of all time to come on instead of an awesome individual player so Fox over BB.



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    Waste of time. It would be an absolute massacre. 2015 go to the bench and bring on BB and SBW. Who do 87 bring on? Bernie McCahill? Making these comparisons is utterly pointless.

    The only chance the 87 lot would have is if the 87 "rules" permitting blatant thuggery unsettled the 2015ers. But then again, who wants to fark with Kaino, BBBR, Nonu etc. if given free reign to sort shit out the old-fashioned way.

    For some reason the thought of that makes me absolutely piss myself.

    Mind you Bernie McCahill with all his limitations, lack of size and current age couldn't have done any worse than 2018 SBW....



  • @MN5 I think you despise SBW more than I despise Chris Eaton.



  • @Nepia said in 1987 ABs vs 2015 ABs:

    @MN5 I think you despise SBW more than I despise Chris Eaton.

    I don't even know who that is.

    I don't despise him, on the contrary he comes across as a really decent bloke it's more I despise the free ride he seems to get despite playing like absolute shit.



  • @MN5 He's an ex Magpies halfback who kept getting selected despite better options. Even in SBW's worse injury disrupted seasons he's still a more worthy selection (for their respective teams and levels) than Eaton.


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