Black Caps v India



  • So this kicks off next Wednesday, really looking forward to seeing how we go against the Indians.
    A couple of teams in good form should make for an exciting series.

    Black Caps' squad:
    Kane Williamson (c), Trent Boult, Doug Bracewell, Colin de Grandhomme, Lockie Ferguson, Martin Guptill, Matt Henry, Tom Latham (wk), Colin Munro, Henry Nicholls, Mitchell Santner, Ish Sodhi, Tim Southee, Ross Taylor.

    In: CdG, Latham, Santner
    Out: Seifert, Neesham

    Neesham and Astle will come into contention for games 4 & 5 after proving their fitness in the Super Smash.



  • @Gunner Would be interesting to know who would have missed out if Neesham was available.

    Neesham, de Grandhomme and Bracewell appear to me to be competing for two spots - but, Bracewell, particularly, could also be competing against Henry and Southee as a genuine frontline bowler.

    Leaving out Seifert seems to suggest that they might be prepared to use Nicholls as the emergency cover wicket keeper at the CWC.



  • @Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:

    @Gunner Would be interesting to know who would have missed out if Neesham was available.

    Neesham, de Grandhomme and Bracewell appear to me to be competing for two spots - but, Bracewell, particularly, could also be competing against Henry and Southee as a genuine frontline bowler.

    Leaving out Seifert seems to suggest that they might be prepared to use Nicholls as the emergency cover wicket keeper at the CWC.

    I like Bracewell. I prefer him to Henry who has become a pie slinger.



  • @canefan Yeah - Henry had a poor series against the Sri Lankans.

    But, we need to see how Bracewell's bowling goes against the Indians. If he's going to take Henry's spot then he needs to be able to bowl 10 economical overs and take some wickets - or at least be significantly better than Henry.



  • @canefan said in Black Caps v India:

    @Chris-B said in Black Caps v India:

    @Gunner Would be interesting to know who would have missed out if Neesham was available.

    Neesham, de Grandhomme and Bracewell appear to me to be competing for two spots - but, Bracewell, particularly, could also be competing against Henry and Southee as a genuine frontline bowler.

    Leaving out Seifert seems to suggest that they might be prepared to use Nicholls as the emergency cover wicket keeper at the CWC.

    I like Bracewell. I prefer him to Henry who has become a pie slinger.

    Henry will be a definite if England has bad weather in the spring and all the wickets are a paradise for seam bowlers. He showed that in England last season. He really seems to struggle on flat decks though, neither quick or accurate enough. But that is largely true for most of the teams - the seamers become fodder if there's nothing in the pitch. So you need genuine pace or variations or accuracy or ideally all 3!



  • Henry hasn't had a lot of game time as yet. He did carve up in England so I'm thinking he'll have to have a mare against India to really drop down the pecking order. Reckon that's a minor factor with Southee too, even if he's only in ok form we'd expect him to amp up on English pitches.



  • Henry has good stats with an average of 26 at 5.7 RPO. He tends to carve up with the new ball, but can be a liability at the death. That said, there are not many bowlers that don't cop it at the death - 10 an over for the final 10 is not just a hope but an expectation these days.

    I think the most important tool for seam bowlers at the death is a good slower ball they can use 3 - 4 times per over. I like Ferguson for that reason, as well as the extra pace he provides.



  • The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.



  • @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.



  • @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    go look at his record in the last 12 months, apparently he is averaging a great deal more than that.

    Kholi is a freak, and we are possibly looking at the best ever



  • @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.

    I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.



  • @MN5 said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.

    I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.

    Bevan is the other name that springs to mind but he didn't have the same destructive hitting power that Dhoni has. They're almost a different era though, I don't think Bevan would be as effective today where batsmen are expected to hit their teams up to 350+ with 6 after 6.



  • @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @MN5 said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.

    I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.

    Bevan is the other name that springs to mind but he didn't have the same destructive hitting power that Dhoni has. They're almost a different era though, I don't think Bevan would be as effective today where batsmen are expected to hit their teams up to 350+ with 6 after 6.

    I recall him being great between the wickets and very good at keeping the runs ticking over. Different game then as you say



  • @canefan said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @MN5 said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.

    I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.

    Bevan is the other name that springs to mind but he didn't have the same destructive hitting power that Dhoni has. They're almost a different era though, I don't think Bevan would be as effective today where batsmen are expected to hit their teams up to 350+ with 6 after 6.

    I recall him being great between the wickets and very good at keeping the runs ticking over. Different game then as you say

    i think what gets overlooked is Dhoni between the wickets, he's way quicker than a solidly-built 37 year old has any reason to be. Watch Tuesday night's chase for an example of ones turned in to twos that turned a tricky chase into a pretty easy one despite the boundaries not flowing.



  • @canefan said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @MN5 said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    I'd still go Michael Bevan but I get your point.

    I'm so fucked off my boy the Neesh is injured yet again.

    Bevan is the other name that springs to mind but he didn't have the same destructive hitting power that Dhoni has. They're almost a different era though, I don't think Bevan would be as effective today where batsmen are expected to hit their teams up to 350+ with 6 after 6.

    I recall him being great between the wickets and very good at keeping the runs ticking over. Different game then as you say

    Yeah apples and oranges. A real mystery how someone so brilliant at ODIs was such a mediocre test batsman.



  • @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    go look at his record in the last 12 months, apparently he is averaging a great deal more than that.

    Kholi is a freak, and we are possibly looking at the best ever

    That's a very bold claim. I presume we're talking overall in all three forms?



  • @MN5 said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    go look at his record in the last 12 months, apparently he is averaging a great deal more than that.

    Kholi is a freak, and we are possibly looking at the best ever

    That's a very bold claim. I presume we're talking overall in all three forms?

    presume whatever you want.



  • @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    @MN5 said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    go look at his record in the last 12 months, apparently he is averaging a great deal more than that.

    Kholi is a freak, and we are possibly looking at the best ever

    That's a very bold claim. I presume we're talking overall in all three forms?

    presume whatever you want.

    Yeah I did.



  • @MN5 said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    go look at his record in the last 12 months, apparently he is averaging a great deal more than that.

    Kholi is a freak, and we are possibly looking at the best ever

    That's a very bold claim. I presume we're talking overall in all three forms?

    In the shorter forms without a doubt. The tests will always have Bradman as the massive outlier. Ignoring him, Kholi started slow in tests but his average has been steadily climbing, wouldn't be surprised to see it touching 60 by the end of his career. Kane may give him a run for his money if he can get enough games under his belt, that man is built for test cricket.



  • @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @MN5 said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    @No-Quarter said in Black Caps v India:

    @mariner4life said in Black Caps v India:

    The key to beating India in ODI cricket is get Kohli for less than a hundred. Also don't let them chase.

    The fluffybunny averages fucking 60 in ODIs. Hell he even hovers around 50 for T20s! Absolutely outrageous stats. Dhoni refuses to bloody retire as well, probably the greatest ever finisher in ODIs.

    go look at his record in the last 12 months, apparently he is averaging a great deal more than that.

    Kholi is a freak, and we are possibly looking at the best ever

    That's a very bold claim. I presume we're talking overall in all three forms?

    In the shorter forms without a doubt. The tests will always have Bradman as the massive outlier. Ignoring him, Kholi started slow in tests but his average has been steadily climbing, wouldn't be surprised to see it touching 60 by the end of his career. Kane may give him a run for his money if he can get enough games under his belt, that man is built for test cricket.

    Will be interesting to see how Steve Smith goes when he comes back. Cheating fuck he may be but that test record is rather decent.


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