Racism in NZ



  • This is not intended to divide. But it’s of interest to me to see how many non Caucasian ferners have been on the receiving end of racism. Also I wonder how many Caucasian ferners have been racially abused or profiled. I grew up a Samoan being abused Maori in my suburb so please do not think this is a white vs black situation.

    I have a poly friend who makes a lot of money. Recently on 2 separate occasions when inquiring about buying a house he was asked by the realtor if he was an athlete. As if that was the only way he could have money. Passive racism.

    I was only on the end of blatant racism one time from a Caucasian. I was about 20 leaving Wellington after clubbing. Me and 2 mates were near the NZ Post building right by the Rail station and 2 very distinctively bald headed guys came up to us and called us niggers. I’ll be honest they were big guys, older than us, even though we were big guys I felt threatened. One of them went to head butt me but I moved just in time and then a cop car drove past and these two ran off toward Lambton Quay. Never really saw any thing racist after that.

    But from talking to friends over the weekend on messenger the amount of racist incidents my wider group of friends have been subjected to and recently is fucking worrying.

    sorry mods just realised there was another thread



  • I generally haven't experienced anything really serious. I'd like to believe that NZ is generally a pretty tolerant society, but like any society there will be assholes out there who are actively racist



  • I think this would be a very interesting topic to get some honest experiences. I know there is real racism out there but I also know that sometimes people assume something is racist when it might not be. If you can convince someone that racists are everywhere then its very easy to see racism where there isn't.

    I'm pasty white and for most of my life have been short and skinny. Certainly remember a couple of times at highschool and at parties where I have been attacked (nothing too serious) by Maori teens where my 'whiteness' was used as an apparent reasoning. The reality is of course that I appeared as an easy target anyway so the colour of my skin was probably just an excuse rather than a reason in itself...oh also once in Rotorua where me an two friends embarrassingly had to call a mates parents to pick us up from a pub because a gang was waiting outside for us..again it could be just easy white-boy targets.

    Outside of those earlier experiences I've not had an issue in New Zealand. I remember my father certainly having some anti-Maori ideas but that never rubbed off on me probably in a big part due to having Maori cousins whom I really looked up to.

    More recently with political discussions with certain people it is often assumed because I am white that I must have come from a place of privilege and any success I've had was simply due to skin tone. Also the concept that gets pushed that a lack of melanin means I have no culture. I find this sort of thought process very racist and generally a product of modern academia.



  • never really directly, aside from being called the odd >insert derogatory word< Honky/Pakeha...I did get called racist by my old Neighbours cos I used to call Noise Control on them in the middle of the night.

    That said, I have an acquaintance on FB, very religious Maori fella, his dad is a Pastor at a Church, he has the odd anti-white rants on there from time to time, to the point I have muted him so I dont get his shit any more.

    Was in Mobil a few weeks ago and a middle aged Maori lady was calling the Indian lady behind the counter a fkn Curry Muncher and that she was a fkn cnut and should fk off back to her own country...I opened the door for her and told her she should leave.

    Sadly I think it is there in small pockets in most societies & communities, and it is unlikely you will ever eradicate it.



  • @taniwharugby assholes are ethnically independent mate! These are isolated cases I reckon. Just look at the predominant response to the mosque massacre. Most people are showing compassion not hatred



  • Human beings are tribal, we always will be. Generally, that's a good thing with building communities, supporting family groups etc.

    Sometimes that can be expressed as a fear/intolerance of others. And as the examples above show, racism is not limited to white people. You can even get that sort of intolerance between white people, look at Serbia and Croatia.

    Have I experienced racism? Sure, was 14 years old at Waitangi being told I should be ashamed at what I did to Maori. Do I experience racism as much as other races, almost certainly not. That's less to do with race as to what ethnic group is in the majority. If I went to Japan, I can bet I would get more racist experiences than I get in NZ.

    Instead of demonising groups, I think a more productive approach is to teach individual responsibility. Everybody is different, no matter what box people try to you in. Treat people how you want to be treated, and give people the benefit of the doubt.

    It's easy to say stupid things like "NZ is racist as fuck", doesn't help anything though.



  • Definitely echo @Kirwan's thoughts, great post.

    It's become a pretty tough discussion to have now thanks to some really toxic rhetoric coming from the radical lefties and being promoted through MSM. Most notably from University professors and administration, and now students graduating with ridiculous degrees and becoming full time activists. Really divisive ideas like:

    • if you are not white you can't be racist.
    • if you are white you are complicit in the system of white supremacy.
    • the whole system in the west is desgined to benefit only white people.
    • if you are white you cannot talk about racism, you need to shut up and listen.

    etc etc

    It's been coined Grievance Studies which is a good name for it, and it's only increasing the tribalism in society which does actually take a conscious effort to overcome.

    Without a doubt racism exists in NZ like it does everywhere. It'd be great if we could have some honest, nuanced discussions about it in the public domain but the majority of what I see is over the top rhetoric about how oppressed anyone that is not a straight white male is.

    In terms of personal experiences, I've not encountered much - have copped abuse from people for being white but it's never really bothered me as they appeared to have pretty bad mental health issues, which I think is true in a lot of cases of brazen racism on the streets.

    My wife moved to NZ from PNG when she was 9, to a small town just north of Welly, and she says she copped daily racist abuse (N word etc) mostly from Maori but also white people. That affected her at the time, but was still a minority of people acting like that. Since moving out of that town she's realised the vast majority of people are not like that at all.

    Our experience in Auckland as a mixed couple has been basically 100% positive, with strangers often commenting on how gorgeous our kids are.

    I do think it's worrying that there are echo chambers for the racists on the far left and the far right online, and I think I posted in the sustainable thread that I was worried about it seeping into the real world - I guess this mass shooting is an extreme example of that. I'm also worried that hate speech laws are going to be extended as a result of this, which will drive these ideas that need a light shone on them further underground.



  • @raznomore said in Racism in NZ:

    I grew up a Samoan being abused Maori in my suburb

    I witnessed this behaviour during the early 80s as young kids were clearly influenced by their parents. Maori kids suddenly hating on Polynesian friends as their parents activism around Waitangi etc. was compounded by the Polynesian immigration.

    The vast majority of the racism I've experienced has either been incredibly subtle and I took it as plain rudeness, or it's been drunk gins yelling "fuk'n whitey fluffybunny" which is easily ignored. If you haven't experienced this delightful part of Australian culture, go west an hour or two from anywhere.

    I once witnessed some obviously wealthy Indians cut in front of some obviously not wealthy Indians. So I cut in front of them and when they complained I simply said "you know how you see them as Dalits, well that's how I see you". I then motioned for the others to cut in front of me. Cue open mouths.



  • Racism as it's commonly referred to has a few layers I reckon.

    Laws of a country: are there any laws which or rights that some people are afforded based on their race? I doubt it and hope not. This is the bugbear of USA racism as noted by Larry Elder and Tom Sowell.

    Surely we have no such laws? Hopefully not even one's designed to "lift" a certain group up. Identity politics.

    At an individual level, the concept is clear. Do you believe any race is inherently better or worse than another? Can you judge someone purely on their race?

    Such a simple question. If you believe yes, you're an unaware, uneducated fool. Those fools cannot be evidence that a country is racist, more it's an indictment on education in that country.

    We'll never completely irradicate the dumb, but it's a noble pursuit to work at it.

    Most of our anecdotes relate to years ago which is interesting. I think tolerance and understanding that it's not how or what with or where you were born, it's what you behave like.

    The worst part is that with identity politics and victimhood such a popular phenomenon, we've got to fuck around reteaching the most basic human principle; all people are born equal in the eyes of the state and immutable characteristics are irrelevant.

    Some people are dumb, but you'd have to point out some laws to believe that NZ is racist.



  • @Kirwan is right that racism rears it’s head here in Japan - as a white guy, that’s sometimes positive (opening sets when you’re out) and negative (getting an apartment). I brush it off - it usually helps me, and it’s beyond this topic - which is of interest to me.

    For context, I’m middle class pakeha, my old man was a screw and I went to the school on the edge of the local town, so his coworkers and my classmates were about 50% Pakeha, 50% Maori, with a few Asians (eg, kids of the baker and Superette). I went to one of those schools where we used to play shirtless rugby brown versus white- and then later at high school most would step in if someone got called out at a party. That was lucky for me, as I was - and still am - a shit fighter. However I also I had friends grow up in pretty much once were warriors households, and most of them never stood a chance. About 3 of the six or seven Maori boys from my year went to prison (some saw my old man!). Of those that didn’t, at least one escaped via the armed forces (navy), and the others I haven’t seen forever - although I think some went to Oz.

    Back then, there was lots of casual - sometimes very funny - racism, such as when my Dad and his mates (one Maori, one Australian) would sit around calling each other land-stealers, criminals, spear-chuckers, sheep-fuckers, etc etc. Of course, some of it wasn’t, such as when we’d be separate to that group and - especially - older family members would complain about Maori’s trying to get shit they hadn’t deserved (this was during the land claims) with lots of - very negative - generalizations thrown around, such as dole-bludgers, useless fucks (you can imagine).

    Anyway, I’ve been lucky enough to come and go from NZ for 20 odd years, and have seen big positive changes in most people’s attitudes and words. I don’t think NZ has much, if any, systemic racism, but some surprisingly - and sometimes shocking - attitudes do still exist (even in my generation), just sitting there in people’s (usually unexamined) attitudes. I’ll give one personal example from about 5 years ago - although I should add that I could give other anecdotes.

    I went around to see my of best childhood/early adult friends. I’ve know him since we were 9, and was a groomsman at his wedding. We hadn’t seen each other in a few years, so we sat down and had a few drinks and a yarn. He’s been very successful starting his own business and in my opinion doesn’t have much to complain about - although he’s worked very very hard, he got started thanks to some help from his Dad.

    He was just constantly saying things like ‘black cnut’ or ‘fucking n————s’ when referring to Maori or any programs set up in NZ to address income disparity (from memory I think we were talking about working families, but perhaps something else). He’d say the same about rugby players - like the attitude that first gives should be white boys as ‘those n————s have got no fucking brains’.

    I was fucking gob smacked.

    I asked him where he got this from, and he was like ‘well, the guys I work with are different’ but you know (to summarize) ‘Maoris are lazy, happy to not work’ etc etc, they’ll just spend it at the pub.

    Things got a bit tense when he moved on to ‘Coconuts’ and then Asians without thinking about the fact that my brothers-in-law and nieces and nephews are asians, and despite the fact that the current hope-to-be Mrs gt12 was Korean (she’s gone now).

    I was quite angry but tried to remind him that his (three) kids would be pretty likely to have their attitudes somewhat shaped by his actions (including the things he says in front of them) so it might be better for him to have a think about what made him think he could back up these things he said. Suffice to say it wasn’t quite the end to our catch up that we’d both hoped for.

    I haven’t seen him since.

    It’s from a while ago, but I still hear those comments slip in to peoples speech - less occasionally now - and I hope there is actually a generational change happening.

    It does make me wonder though, as this friend of mine is in a position to send his kids to a private school and I wonder if they grow up with lots of different looking faces. I know that they don’t get input at home that challenges them to avoid dangerous generalizations, despite I’m sure being raised to not say things like ‘black cnut’ when there are brown faces about.

    This will all get a lot more real for me when we come home with my little yellow boy 😉 but, that’s for a different thread.



  • @gt12 raises a good point, what to do when you're talking to someone that is dumb racist?

    Usually just in casual conversation. I get more of that than I want in Aus when Aborigines crops up.

    I just remain non committal with just uh huhs.

    I can't be fucked lecturing people, I just flag them internally. Stink feeling though.



  • @Siam said in Racism in NZ:

    @gt12 raises a good point, what to do when you're talking to someone that is dumb racist?

    When I was a less confident youth I'd ignore it. The older I got the more prepared I was to enquire if they were being casually racist, i.e. trying to be funny. Then you could try to change their mind by enquiring how they come to feel that way, whether they're happy to be judged on the actions of people who look like them but they've never met etc.

    Now I say it outright as I don't have time for people that actually think skin colour determines character. My remaining ~400,000 hours are better spent doing other things.



  • There is also racial bias that occurs without knowing you are doing it. Think of job interviews, if the employer is a Caucasian male, he may without realising be bias towards the Caucasian applicants. I believe there have been loads of studies on this. One example was they sent two resumes which had equivalent qualifications and the only difference was the names, one had a traditional African American name and the other a Caucasian name. I believe the Caucasian name got substantially more interviews than the African American name.

    My wife recently helped on a panel for job applicants, the boss told her she excluded all foreign sounding names as she wanted someone who could speak English.

    I remember my first job at a private company in Whangarei. There were probably around 25 employees, every single one was a Caucasian male. This is odd considering the amount of Maori and Pacific Islanders in that city. I can recall the boss saying a few anti Maori things at the time. No doubt when he hired staff he was bias.

    There is also the Police bias in regards to targeting people of colour, no doubt Police would reject this however given the small population of Aboriginal people in OZ they are over represented in searches, arrests etc. I don't think it is as simple as saying it must be because they are committing the crime.

    It is a lot of these missed opportunities which can lead to crime, drug addiction and poor outcomes IMO.



  • When I came back to NZ I was shocked at how blatant the racism was in NZ Not institutional but from all manner of people. Particularly against Asian and Maori.

    I think the whole Foreshore and Seabed debate got pretty nasty at times and then of course there's the NZ First bigotry.

    There's also been the Labour Party with their Asian sounding names shit leading a pretty uncomfortable dialogue about "foreign ownership" that sailed pretty close to pandering to some peoples basest instincts at times.

    I'm still shocked at times. Generally it's old fucks who are never going to change but too often it's young people. However, in the main I think the situation has improved dramatically in the last couple of decades. In Auckland at least almost everywhere is a real mix of nationalities so whilst I guess this triggers some racists I think it has broadened the average persons outlook. There are just so many mixed relationships (& their progeny) it just has to help with colour blindness. Got to be hard for some of the entrenched bigotry when your grandchild is half pasifika.

    Personal examples. A few times an employee I've had cause to discipline has tried to play the race card, I've been told to fuck off whitey in a couple of pubs and the last two scraps I got into were with European racists who didn't like being called out over their behaviour. But in the main as I said we are light years away from my youth when a film about the shock of an inter-racial marriage was big news or the majority of Akl Uni students thought dressing up in grass skirts and writing fluffybunny on your chest was all good fun.



  • @dogmeat you always teach me new words.

    progeny: a descendant or the descendants of a person, animal, or plant; offspring

    To save others like me a google.



  • @Siam the only laws we have to do with race (and other immutable human characteristics) is that "positive discrimination" is legal. Which basically means you can put quotas in place if you want a more "diverse' workforce. I don't agree with quotas but they are technically legal in NZ.



  • @chimoaus said in Racism in NZ:

    There is also racial bias that occurs without knowing you are doing it. Think of job interviews, if the employer is a Caucasian male, he may without realising be bias towards the Caucasian applicants. I believe there have been loads of studies on this. One example was they sent two resumes which had equivalent qualifications and the only difference was the names, one had a traditional African American name and the other a Caucasian name. I believe the Caucasian name got substantially more interviews than the African American name.

    My wife recently helped on a panel for job applicants, the boss told her she excluded all foreign sounding names as she wanted someone who could speak English.

    I remember my first job at a private company in Whangarei. There were probably around 25 employees, every single one was a Caucasian male. This is odd considering the amount of Maori and Pacific Islanders in that city. I can recall the boss saying a few anti Maori things at the time. No doubt when he hired staff he was bias.

    There is also the Police bias in regards to targeting people of colour, no doubt Police would reject this however given the small population of Aboriginal people in OZ they are over represented in searches, arrests etc. I don't think it is as simple as saying it must be because they are committing the crime.

    It is a lot of these missed opportunities which can lead to crime, drug addiction and poor outcomes IMO.

    I think the jury is still out on unconscious bias - lots of studies both confirming and discrediting it. I'd say most bias is a concious decision, and any unconscious bias can easily be overcome, but it's worth keeping in mind.

    Also, on the police - I do feel for them. Part of their job is to profile people to detect high risk individuals in society. It would go against their instincts not to. TBH I'm not sure if it is a problem in NZ - doubtless it happens, though nothing like the States I imagine where African Americans in particular can get a very tough time from police.



  • @No-Quarter said in Racism in NZ:

    @dogmeat you always teach me new words.

    progeny: a descendant or the descendants of a person, animal, or plant; offspring

    To save others like me a google.

    The fern is great for that. I have www.dictionary.com plenty of words on here. Progeny is used constantly in the racing industry as it's all about the breeding of horses etc.



  • @No-Quarter bugger. NZ does judge on race then, ergo racist as fuck!😉




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