Censorship and the Mosque Shooting
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@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
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@Duluth said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Has anyone mentioned the small print?
It was criticising Islam for its bigotry towards gays and subjugation of woman. Positions that would be 'woke' if you were talking about certain sects of Christianity.
I kind of alluded to it with my post against the word Islamophobe. The t-shirt is critical of the fundamental aspects of Islam and is taking a dig at the word being used to shut down criticism of the idea. I believe the word was coined by some pretty fundamental Muslims and was put into hate speech laws in the UK, and since been used widely. Maajid Nawaz has been campaigning against the use of the word:
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@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
Agree on the latter point.
I don’t buy the naivety myself. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and has since regretted it. I can also get thst out of his statement.
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@Duluth said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Has anyone mentioned the small print?
It was criticising Islam for its bigotry towards gays and subjugation of woman. Positions that would be 'woke' if you were talking about certain sects of Christianity.
Interesting that JP himself hasn’t mentioned that.
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@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
Agree on the latter point.
I don’t buy the naivety myself. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and has since regretted it. I can also get thst out of his statement.
We're not talking about any old guy here. The guy is a university professor and public figure. He knew exactly what he was doing and miscalculated about the outcome
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@canefan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
Agree on the latter point.
I don’t buy the naivety myself. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and has since regretted it. I can also get thst out of his statement.
We're not talking about any old guy here. The guy is a university professor and public figure. He knew exactly what he was doing and miscalculated about the outcome
Nah, this feels like projection to me. He takes thousands of these types of photos. You are assuming he even read the t-shirt, he may (as he said) just not even think about restricting what people can wear when they take photos of him.
His naivety comes from thinking that people support free speech anymore.
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@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Duluth said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Has anyone mentioned the small print?
It was criticising Islam for its bigotry towards gays and subjugation of woman. Positions that would be 'woke' if you were talking about certain sects of Christianity.
Interesting that JP himself hasn’t mentioned that.
He has in the past. He points out that Identity Politics types end up eating themselves, how can you be pro gay rights (or pro woman) and be pro Islam? When you see people only by their group membership, then eventually everyone is an oppressor.
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@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Interesting that JP himself hasn’t mentioned that.
It also criticises racism, female genital mutilation, rape, pedo stuff and their hatred of bacon
Controversial yes. A bit like criticising all of Catholicism for pervert priests. The story has been misrepresented by omission
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@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Duluth said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Has anyone mentioned the small print?
It was criticising Islam for its bigotry towards gays and subjugation of woman. Positions that would be 'woke' if you were talking about certain sects of Christianity.
Interesting that JP himself hasn’t mentioned that.
He has in the past. He points out that Identity Politics types end up eating themselves, how can you be pro gay rights (or pro woman) and be pro Islam? When you see people only by their group membership, then eventually everyone is an oppressor.
Not in general, about this photo.
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@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@canefan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
Agree on the latter point.
I don’t buy the naivety myself. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and has since regretted it. I can also get thst out of his statement.
We're not talking about any old guy here. The guy is a university professor and public figure. He knew exactly what he was doing and miscalculated about the outcome
Nah, this feels like projection to me. He takes thousands of these types of photos. You are assuming he even read the t-shirt, he may (as he said) just not even think about restricting what people can wear when they take photos of him.
His naivety comes from thinking that people support free speech anymore.
I certainly agree that a lot of the woke generation don’t support free speech.
But to suggest he is naive about that? Absolutely not. I’m no expert / fan but from what I’ve read on here, isn’t this his bread and butter?
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@canefan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
Agree on the latter point.
I don’t buy the naivety myself. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and has since regretted it. I can also get thst out of his statement.
We're not talking about any old guy here. The guy is a university professor and public figure. He knew exactly what he was doing and miscalculated about the outcome
An All Black is a public figure with contractual obligations to corporations. If I get a team to trawl the internet for a photo then he's in the cross hairs too.
Or is this whole argument on a case by case basis and subjectively decided on what individuals think.
Again, on whose universal authority is an assessment valid depending on who you're captured in a photo next to during a 15 second interaction?
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Sometimes a musician has to have nerve and bad attitude to make the right kind of noise.
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Bloody sad day when guilt by association has become acceptable to many.
I dont think some people give any thought to where this sort of thing leads. It is like history teaches nothing.