Censorship and the Mosque Shooting
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@Donsteppa said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
All sorts of events right across the spectrum have been postponed or cancelled over the last ten days. I’ve been closely involved with two that were affected, yet with completely contrasting topics.
Much has simply depended on police resourcing, more so in places where police were taken from for Christchurch.
I know a guy who runs one of the cop shops in Auckland, they sent a bunch of guys down to Chch to relieve the local force. Probably a good time to be a crim right now!!
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Making every single gathering completely secure is impossible. This reaction from NZ is simply, "everyone inside because the big bad wolf is out there somewhere"
Its blatant peddling fear, always a precursor to more security laws.
I don't like where my country is headed under this virtue signalling, fear mongering government.
"Waleed, can I give you a hug" ( for ratings), is not strong leadership
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@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Making every single gathering completely secure is impossible. This reaction from NZ is simply, "everyone inside because the big bad wolf is out there somewhere"
Its blatant peddling fear, always a precursor to more security laws.
I don't like where my country is headed under this virtue signalling, fear mongering government.
"Waleed, can I give you a hug" ( for ratings), is not strong leadership
It's a knee-jerk reaction though isn't it? No different from the TSA going nuts after 9/11. Things will calm down
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@canefan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Making every single gathering completely secure is impossible. This reaction from NZ is simply, "everyone inside because the big bad wolf is out there somewhere"
Its blatant peddling fear, always a precursor to more security laws.
I don't like where my country is headed under this virtue signalling, fear mongering government.
"Waleed, can I give you a hug" ( for ratings), is not strong leadership
It's a knee-jerk reaction though isn't it? No different from the TSA going nuts after 9/11. Things will calm down
Been through airport security lately?
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@antipodean said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@canefan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Making every single gathering completely secure is impossible. This reaction from NZ is simply, "everyone inside because the big bad wolf is out there somewhere"
Its blatant peddling fear, always a precursor to more security laws.
I don't like where my country is headed under this virtue signalling, fear mongering government.
"Waleed, can I give you a hug" ( for ratings), is not strong leadership
It's a knee-jerk reaction though isn't it? No different from the TSA going nuts after 9/11. Things will calm down
Been through airport security lately?
Yeah. It's better now than when I flew through the US 6 months after 9/11. Which isn't saying much
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I'm going to request an exemption with the stated purpose to discredit his argument in a manner that might actually make sense to potential radicals who will still be able to access this document regardless of any 'ban'. I'll be curious if they will accept my request as I'm not affiliated with a legacy media outlet.
Not super keen on the $102.20 fee for it, might have to look at where the limitations is as far as accessing it while outside of NZ and publishing it on a non-NZ site. Naturally I won't link anything here.
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@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Making every single gathering completely secure is impossible. This reaction from NZ is simply, "everyone inside because the big bad wolf is out there somewhere"
Its blatant peddling fear, always a precursor to more security laws.
I don't like where my country is headed under this virtue signalling, fear mongering government.
"Waleed, can I give you a hug" ( for ratings), is not strong leadership
You get a like for the last para.
To my mind however the increased security at present is entirely understandable.
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@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Making every single gathering completely secure is impossible. This reaction from NZ is simply, "everyone inside because the big bad wolf is out there somewhere"
Its blatant peddling fear, always a precursor to more security laws.
I don't like where my country is headed under this virtue signalling, fear mongering government.
"Waleed, can I give you a hug" ( for ratings), is not strong leadership
As said it's a resourcing thing. The Pacifika festival in Auckland was cancelled not because of security fears, but because they would not have the usual security from Police that they require to hold an event of that size.
I'm not concerned by the cancellation of events, that is what it is. It's all of the hate speech laws we've had sitting in the background for some time now that worry me - they've not really been enforced until now, but I sense there will be pressure on Police to crack down and enforce laws that are incredibly vague to begin with.
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@booboo and yet, increased security across the board in the last 20 years has coincided with more terrorist acts.🤔
The only option is to search every car and every person at every gathering of more than 20 people.
Or cancel every gathering.
Ring fence the world isn't a good strategy
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Similar to @No-Quarter I've seen at least one instance of a cancellation due to lack of policing resource - at the level of policing the event would have required pre-shooting. Not a higher level of resource, or that they see an increased risk for said event.
But in saying that other changes like the one for CubaDupa is a mix of the two factors. Where an event in a totally open space would be tough to provide security for, even at levels before the chch incident. And they are worried about the higher risk of 'something' happening.
@Siam I think some of it is about helping people get back to an even keel. In that there is an expectation that we'll see higher level of security for a while. All well and good to say we are getting played but emotions and responses to all this are still raw as.
If we are still seeing things cancelled etc in 3+ months, especially as the findings of reviews into this scenario come out, then I think your take on the situation will be justified.
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@Paekakboyz what's the threat?
If we had access to the doc like the rest of the world, serious questions would be asked regarding our response.
We are not a fearful country but are being portrayed as such. This was a great opportunity to promote helping the victims and getting on with life. Instead it's handwringing due to a demonstrably one off act of 30 mins violence, the like of which has been prevalent worldwide.
What's the threat? I know I'm alluding to info not available though mate.
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@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Having learned about the gunman, there is no reason for heightened security or alarm.
NZ is getting played
Here in Christchurch there’s alot of nervous people still around...I don’t think this is due to any hyperbole in the media or from government, it’s a natural reaction to such an event.
A heightened police presence and security level is reassuring, regardless of whether there’s likely to be another attack.
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@Siam I think the primary threat it a dumbass copycat incident. The attack being pretty much a lone wolf incident (web/forum links aside) would indicate a low level of risk from another 'cell' or similar. Or at least as far as the info that has been shared.
What you are calling fearful I'm seeing a prudent and time-bound. We aren't a bunch of wussy's now because we've had a horrendous thing happen and people are unsettled. I think you actually unpacked part of it yourself - this is shit that has been prevalent overseas... not here. So why the surprise when we react strongly to it??
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@Paekakboyz immediately after something like this, the average person is probably more worried about personal safety than the prospect of NZ becoming a police state
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"The threat" is copycat or retaliation by people possibly linked, but more likely completely unrelated.
Have read somewhere that the risk of both types of events in overseas experience is highest in the six weeks after a major event. And from talking to the police, sure enough we're just under two weeks into a six week response plan.
Plus again, there are a lot of police in Christchurch/drawn to Christchurch to work on the investigation and the myriad of things that go with 50 individual murders to be processed, family liaison, etc etc. And the need for some of them now to have a break after being on duty for some long hours and weeks.
I haven't seen the manifesto nor have any interest in seeing it, but I doubt it has any information about specifically who will do anything next. But I am sure that the police/SIS/GCSB/FBI/Five Eyes/Turkish authorities/Australian authorities/etc/etc will have now been through it with a fine tooth comb for specific threats, and that there's not much more that a bunch of us on a rugby forum are likely to add to that collective analysis.
Copycats or retaliation still being the more likely risk (risk, not certainty, but a bit of caution for a few weeks is hardly the end of the world).
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The six week risk is interesting @Donsteppa, and certainly makes sense - thanks for sharing.
I think the biggest risk is retaliation, though I'd never rule out the chance of a copycat. ISIS have already called for revenge, and although there are not many, there are some Salafi/Wahabi Muslims in NZ that are sympathetic to their cause. That would justify heightened security for that alone - think I read a while back there's around 40 on our terrorism watchlist (I.E. people with a criminal history that have shown support for violent jihadists).
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@Paekakboyz said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam I think the primary threat it a dumbass copycat incident. The attack being pretty much a lone wolf incident (web/forum links aside) would indicate a low level of risk from another 'cell' or similar. Or at least as far as the info that has been shared.
If it were then it I think it would be Mosques that would be getting the security. I'd be figuring that retaliatory attack is the biggest concern but obviously this isn't something that can be vocalised in our current climate.
I'd be curious as to how Oz is upping its own security response. From what I've seen Jacinda & world media has done a really good job as painting NZ as compassionate and a victim in this. Conversely the perpetrator comes from Australia, we've had Senator Anning's stupid comments and media trying to associate this attack with various Australian patriot groups and conservative figures.
Even without a motivation that could come from the horrors in Christchurch, Melbourne has still had 7 Islamic inspired terrorist incidents s in the last 2 years, 3 foiled and 4 carried out attacks by 'lone wolf' individuals. There are also currently 160 individuals in Victoria being monitored on a terror watch list. I'd imagine Islamic extremists & white identatarian extremists alike would both be looking forward to further escalations in violence to satisfy their own ends. Very challenging time for security services right now I'd think.
I'm personally going to be avoiding town where possible on Fridays for a bit
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@No-Quarter said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
The six week risk is interesting @Donsteppa, and certainly makes sense - thanks for sharing.
The overseas reference was buried somewhere in a Stuff article but I can't find it at the moment... I'm guessing it's ultimately a society level version of a cooling down period - having a very visible security presence to deter any hotheads from doing anything reactive, while everyone gets the chance to take a deep breath and simmer down.