The Folau Factor



  • @MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:

    Am I consistent or is Fitz?

    Criticising someone's opinion or actions is one thing. Fitz is criticising Foolu for having an opinion contrary to his own.



  • @antipodean said in The Folau Factor:

    Someone should give him a PhD in marketing

    Something the ARU definitely needs



  • @voodoo said in The Folau Factor:

    @antipodean said in The Folau Factor:

    @voodoo said in The Folau Factor:

    @Siam I said in my initial post that he doesn't have to provide a reason. But that if he had, I'd be keen to know what it was. Turns out it's not any of the things you mention, it's a false claim around religion (happy to be corrected on this still if someone can point some evidence)

    That's not how it works. You're the one asserting, so the onus is on you to provide proof.

    He's clearly a genius and a lazy one at that. All this attention (for an undisclosed purpose) by simply standing. Someone should give him a PhD in marketing.

    I need to provide the proof that it says somewhere in the bible that he is never allowed to kneel in protest of something?

    No, just proof he remained standing because of his religion.



  • @MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:

    @Victor-Meldrew said in The Folau Factor:

    Fitzsimmons' point appears to be that while Foolu is perfectly entitled to make his own choices, if those decisions aren't in line with his view, it takes his breath away..

    Poor little flower.

    I wonder if I need to do some inner soul seeking here for myself. As I was extremely critical on him for his religious based twaddle, but I support him in not taking a knee.

    Am I consistent or is Fitz?

    Fitzsimons called Tebow taking a knee an act of public wankery...



  • @antipodean said in The Folau Factor:

    @voodoo said in The Folau Factor:

    @antipodean said in The Folau Factor:

    @voodoo said in The Folau Factor:

    @Siam I said in my initial post that he doesn't have to provide a reason. But that if he had, I'd be keen to know what it was. Turns out it's not any of the things you mention, it's a false claim around religion (happy to be corrected on this still if someone can point some evidence)

    That's not how it works. You're the one asserting, so the onus is on you to provide proof.

    He's clearly a genius and a lazy one at that. All this attention (for an undisclosed purpose) by simply standing. Someone should give him a PhD in marketing.

    I need to provide the proof that it says somewhere in the bible that he is never allowed to kneel in protest of something?

    No, just proof he remained standing because of his religion.

    Ahhh, that's easy!!! See below - if it's on the Fern, it must be true!

    @Kiwiwomble said in The Folau Factor:

    @voodoo apparently its part of his religion to never kneel to anyone other than his wife and to god



  • @MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:

    @Victor-Meldrew said in The Folau Factor:

    Fitzsimmons' point appears to be that while Foolu is perfectly entitled to make his own choices, if those decisions aren't in line with his view, it takes his breath away..

    Poor little flower.

    I wonder if I need to do some inner soul seeking here for myself. As I was extremely critical on him for his religious based twaddle, but I support him in not taking a knee.

    Am I consistent or is Fitz?

    You know Piers Morgan...not a million miles away



  • @MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:

    @Victor-Meldrew said in The Folau Factor:

    Fitzsimmons' point appears to be that while Foolu is perfectly entitled to make his own choices, if those decisions aren't in line with his view, it takes his breath away..

    Poor little flower.

    I wonder if I need to do some inner soul seeking here for myself. As I was extremely critical on him for his religious based twaddle, but I support him in not taking a knee.

    Am I consistent or is Fitz?

    I think that you're being consistent, after all they are a little different. On the one hand he was being openly critical of swathes of people in spouting his twaddle and on the other hand he does not want to take a political and has used his religious beliefs to back this up. In not taking a knee he is not telling anyone what they should or should not do. I'm fine with that.



  • @Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:

    @MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:

    @Victor-Meldrew said in The Folau Factor:

    Fitzsimmons' point appears to be that while Foolu is perfectly entitled to make his own choices, if those decisions aren't in line with his view, it takes his breath away..

    Poor little flower.

    I wonder if I need to do some inner soul seeking here for myself. As I was extremely critical on him for his religious based twaddle, but I support him in not taking a knee.

    Am I consistent or is Fitz?

    I think that you're being consistent, after all they are a little different. On the one hand he was being openly critical of swathes of people in spouting his twaddle and on the other hand he does not want to take a political and has used his religious beliefs to back this up. In not taking a knee he is not telling anyone what they should or should not do. I'm fine with that.

    I'm on board with all of that, except for the part where he has "allegedly" used his religious beliefs as the reason. Only because I haven't seen how his beliefs prevent this. I would be totally fine with him not kneeling and not giving a reason at all however. It just seems like the religion part is a cop out.



  • One of the things that I have noticed as I’ve seen sports wanting to “show their support” is there has been discomfort with the conflating of the Black Lives Matter movement/philosophy, and the issues of racism, prejudice and discrimination etc.

    Some that have spoken out don’t support BLM and as such don’t want to do something that is portrayed as a BLM stance/kneel/action.

    Whether this is what Folau feels, I don’t know, I haven’t read anything like that, but certainly others have made that choice.



  • @ACT-Crusader said in The Folau Factor:

    One of the things that I have noticed as I’ve seen sports wanting to “show their support” is there has been discomfort with the conflating of the Black Lives Matter movement/philosophy, and the issues of racism, prejudice and discrimination etc.

    Some that have spoken out don’t support BLM and as such don’t want to do something that is portrayed as a BLM stance/kneel/action.

    Whether this is what Folau feels, I don’t know, I haven’t read anything like that, but certainly others have made that choice.

    F1 is the pinnacle of this. Lewis Hamilton is basically trying to dictate what everybody else should do and think.



  • @MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:

    @ACT-Crusader said in The Folau Factor:

    One of the things that I have noticed as I’ve seen sports wanting to “show their support” is there has been discomfort with the conflating of the Black Lives Matter movement/philosophy, and the issues of racism, prejudice and discrimination etc.

    Some that have spoken out don’t support BLM and as such don’t want to do something that is portrayed as a BLM stance/kneel/action.

    Whether this is what Folau feels, I don’t know, I haven’t read anything like that, but certainly others have made that choice.

    F1 is the pinnacle of this. Lewis Hamilton is basically trying to dictate what everybody else should do and think.

    It certainly seems like that.

    I don’t doubt that for young impressionable men that find themselves in a “bubble” with their sport because of COVID, are in the public eye, that there is pressure coming from all sorts of places about these matters.



  • @ACT-Crusader said in The Folau Factor:

    @MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:

    @ACT-Crusader said in The Folau Factor:

    One of the things that I have noticed as I’ve seen sports wanting to “show their support” is there has been discomfort with the conflating of the Black Lives Matter movement/philosophy, and the issues of racism, prejudice and discrimination etc.

    Some that have spoken out don’t support BLM and as such don’t want to do something that is portrayed as a BLM stance/kneel/action.

    Whether this is what Folau feels, I don’t know, I haven’t read anything like that, but certainly others have made that choice.

    F1 is the pinnacle of this. Lewis Hamilton is basically trying to dictate what everybody else should do and think.

    It certainly seems like that.

    I don’t doubt that for young impressionable men that find themselves in a “bubble” with their sport because of COVID, are in the public eye, that there is pressure coming from all sorts of places about these matters.

    He's the only one of that demographic who drives & is also the current world champ and arguably the best driver.

    So you have to expect him to front and centre. But he's taking it too far criticising those who don't agree with him on every single point.



  • Some of those criticizing Folau for not kneeling are really just taking the chance to put the boot in because they don't like his Christian beliefs and probably Christianity in general. Liberal "tolerance" so long as it is in line with their beliefs. And don't mention God!!!!!!!!!



  • I don't see what the big deal is, and am surprised at the accusations of "attention seeking". There have been sportsmen around the world either taking or not taking a knee, depending on what they want to do. Are we really saying people not taking a knee are attention seeking, and those that do are not? That seems like a ridiculous assertion.

    There was a black player in the NBA recently that didn't take a knee, and when asked about it talked about his religion as a reason for not doing so. I'm atheist but am not so intolerant to think that someone's religious or spiritual beliefs are not extremely important and personal to them, so would not just discount them out of hand as a cop out.



  • @No-Quarter
    And by the same token, if this argument is applied, all those who took a knee before it become more common were attention seekers.



  • This has always summed it up for me. One of the very few players in the EPL who physically is black, forgets to take the knee at the whistle.

    Extremely important movement, right?



  • @No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:

    There was a black player in the NBA recently that didn't take a knee, and when asked about it talked about his religion as a reason for not doing so.

    God/Jesus got him a few days later, it's all good 👍



  • @voodoo said in The Folau Factor:

    @No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:

    There was a black player in the NBA recently that didn't take a knee, and when asked about it talked about his religion as a reason for not doing so.

    God/Jesus got him a few days later, it's all good 👍

    White man pushing his religion on black man I see.



  • @voodoo said in The Folau Factor:

    @Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:

    @MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:

    @Victor-Meldrew said in The Folau Factor:

    Fitzsimmons' point appears to be that while Foolu is perfectly entitled to make his own choices, if those decisions aren't in line with his view, it takes his breath away..

    Poor little flower.

    I wonder if I need to do some inner soul seeking here for myself. As I was extremely critical on him for his religious based twaddle, but I support him in not taking a knee.

    Am I consistent or is Fitz?

    I think that you're being consistent, after all they are a little different. On the one hand he was being openly critical of swathes of people in spouting his twaddle and on the other hand he does not want to take a political and has used his religious beliefs to back this up. In not taking a knee he is not telling anyone what they should or should not do. I'm fine with that.

    I'm on board with all of that, except for the part where he has "allegedly" used his religious beliefs as the reason. Only because I haven't seen how his beliefs prevent this. I would be totally fine with him not kneeling and not giving a reason at all however. It just seems like the religion part is a cop out.

    I can understand that view but for me it seems more likely that "the excuse" is more of a reflection on being criticised as being racist/ignorant/uneducated/insert insult here for not taking the knee.



  • So who here, if privileged enough to be in a position to do so, would kneel?

    Be honest.

    I wouldn't.

    Does that make me rascist?



  • @booboo I don't really understand what it is people are kneeling for.



  • @booboo said in The Folau Factor:

    So who here, if privileged enough to be in a position to do so, would kneel?

    Be honest.

    I wouldn't.

    Does that make me rascist?

    That guy from the Magic didn't seem to cop any heat for making a personal choice, Greg Popovich stood and he didn't either. Folau, after his conduct with the ARU, won't get a hell of a lot of leeway here



  • @Bones said in The Folau Factor:

    @booboo I don't really understand what it is people are kneeling for.

    Kind of part of a bit of my point.

    Not all of it. But certainly some.



  • @canefan said in The Folau Factor:

    @booboo said in The Folau Factor:

    So who here, if privileged enough to be in a position to do so, would kneel?

    Be honest.

    I wouldn't.

    Does that make me rascist?

    That guy from the Magic didn't seem to cop any heat for making a personal choice, Greg Popovich stood and he didn't either. Folau, after his conduct with the ARU, won't get a hell of a lot of leeway here

    There was a bit being said on the socials about Johnathan Isaac. And when he did his ACL the next game the old ‘K’ word was being used. Terrible in my view given you are right many NBA players who have kneeled came out and expressed support for Isaac for his choice.

    Terrible injury too for a player on the rise having a real impact off that Magic bench.



  • What annoys me about all these novelty displays of solidarity is that they will last 5 mins and really mean very little! Remember dress in black for #metoo. 🙄
    Someone above said its about all lives, I prefer that sentiment, but it's not, it's about recognising and fighting the discrimination of Black Lives.
    Anytime I've seen a white celebrity try to support it they make some vague statement that then gets slated that they "don't understand" and if they don't participate they are told "do not be silent". You can't win.
    If he chooses to stay out of it good for him it's his personal choice and he shouldn't have to justify it. He is in the public eye so his decisions will always get scrutinised, part of the job.



  • @R-L said in The Folau Factor:

    it's about recognising and fighting the discrimination of Black Lives

    Yeah, but how?



  • @Bones by kneeling apparently? Hopefully something useful actually emerges.



  • @R-L said in The Folau Factor:

    @Bones by kneeling apparently? Hopefully something useful actually emerges.

    I'm just sceptical about what it's actually achieving. Not sure Joe Racist next door is watching the soccer and deciding to change his ways.



  • @booboo said in The Folau Factor:

    So who here, if privileged enough to be in a position to do so, would kneel?

    Be honest.

    I wouldn't.

    Does that make me rascist?

    I wouldn't. I'm not racist, so I have no need to virtual signal.



  • @Bones oh I don't mean anything useful will emerge from kneeling. I mean from the greater cause.



  • @R-L here's hoping eh. It's a good point - has anything positive emerged from the cause so far?



  • @Bones lots of people got to feel good about themselves parading around during a pandemic.



  • @Bones said in The Folau Factor:

    @R-L here's hoping eh. It's a good point - has anything positive emerged from the cause so far?

    surely you are not trying to suggest that incredibly complex social and socio-economic issues that vary immensely across a wide array of locations can't be solved by walking in the streets, posting shit on social media, and seeing the most privileged people in our society taking a knee?

    you fucking nazi, you are part of the problem



  • @mariner4life Beirut lives matter.



  • @Bones said in The Folau Factor:

    @mariner4life Beirut lives matter.

    Clearly not according to the Beirut port authority



  • @booboo said in The Folau Factor:

    So who here, if privileged enough to be in a position to do so, would kneel?

    Be honest.

    I wouldn't.

    Does that make me rascist?

    It's a good qn. If I was part of a team, and all of the others wanted to kneel, I probably would. Mainly because I don't feel strongly enough against it to start any angst with my team, my fans, my management etc. However in the team discussion behind closed doors, I would be advocating to not kneel as a team, for many of the reasons people have stated already.

    Which I guess makes me a bit of a sell-out, and probably cheapens the message of kneeling, which I'm sure is the case for a large number of these guys doing it.



  • @canefan said in The Folau Factor:

    @Bones said in The Folau Factor:

    @mariner4life Beirut lives matter.

    Clearly not according to the Beirut port authority

    You've changed your tune since the Salma fiasco.



  • @Bones said in The Folau Factor:

    @canefan said in The Folau Factor:

    @Bones said in The Folau Factor:

    @mariner4life Beirut lives matter.

    Clearly not according to the Beirut port authority

    You've changed your tune since the Salma fiasco.

    Huh?



  • @voodoo said in The Folau Factor:

    Which I guess makes me a bit of a sell-out, and probably cheapens the message of kneeling

    not really (I mean it is a bit of a weak gesture anyway) given only the team would be privy to the conversation and any opposition to the gesture



  • @canefan she's part Lebanese...


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