Cannabis referendum



  • Any thoughts ?

    Martyn Bradbury has a great rant about it

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/05/07/yawn-cannabis-referendum-is-out-and-surprise-surprise-its-not-binding/

    I’m certain if he slips in the shower he blames neoliberal soap .



  • At this stage, I think I am voting yes.

    I have seen the damage it can do, long term, which is not great but I think the cost benefit of legalising outweighs this damage.



  • Yeah great idea, let’s legalise pot because we are great in how as a community we drink responsibly.
    Not too mention not allow other destructive drugs like P and synthetics destroys lives and families.

    NZ is the worse country to allow reforms around cannabis. We have a binge mentality when it comes to booze. We have one of the highest rates in the world when it comes to using P.



  • @Virgil said in Cannabis referendum:

    Yeah great idea, let’s legalise pot because we are great in how as a community we drink responsibly.
    Not too mention not allow other destructive drugs like P and synthetics destroys lives and families.

    NZ is the worse country to allow reforms around cannabis. We have a binge mentality when it comes to booze. We have one of the highest rates in the world when it comes to using P.

    I'm lost on what P has to do with this? Are you saying the Weed is the gateway to P?



  • @Hooroo said in Cannabis referendum:

    @Virgil said in Cannabis referendum:

    Yeah great idea, let’s legalise pot because we are great in how as a community we drink responsibly.
    Not too mention not allow other destructive drugs like P and synthetics destroys lives and families.

    NZ is the worse country to allow reforms around cannabis. We have a binge mentality when it comes to booze. We have one of the highest rates in the world when it comes to using P.

    I'm lost on what P has to do with this? Are you saying the Weed is the gateway to P?

    Could be, more the feeling we don’t do things by half.
    We have a large lower socioeconomic element who are too dependent on drugs and booze already.
    Throw in the ability to buy weed legally I can’t see it going well.



  • @Virgil said in Cannabis referendum:

    @Hooroo said in Cannabis referendum:

    @Virgil said in Cannabis referendum:

    Yeah great idea, let’s legalise pot because we are great in how as a community we drink responsibly.
    Not too mention not allow other destructive drugs like P and synthetics destroys lives and families.

    NZ is the worse country to allow reforms around cannabis. We have a binge mentality when it comes to booze. We have one of the highest rates in the world when it comes to using P.

    I'm lost on what P has to do with this? Are you saying the Weed is the gateway to P?

    Could be, more the feeling we don’t do things by half.
    We have a large lower socioeconomic element who are too dependent on drugs and booze already.
    Throw in the ability to buy weed legally I can’t see it going well.

    I hear what you are saying but they are doing that anyway, just illegally and at great cost.



  • I’m voting yes.

    When have you ever heard of anyone going on a marijuana fueled rampage ? It’s pretty harmless in small doses ( personally I hate it but I don’t begrudge others who do indulge )

    It would free up Police time to catch real criminals. Every police member I know agrees with this, at least in private.

    @Virgil i agree 100% that NZ has a massive booze problem but personally I can’t see old Mary Jane being anywhere near as bad.



  • @MN5 I have . A mate of mine worked at Griffins and bought a supermarket shopping bag full of broken chocolate biscuits to a session when I was about 20 . It was carnage.



  • @Virgil I'm all for treating addiction/abuse as a health issue. Moving cannabis away from gangs and 'off the grid' and into a regulated environment will be a big improvement on the current situation in my opinion. Especially around synthetics which really kicked off once the party pill industry got (quite rightly) shut down, and are seemingly tied more closely to the P industry.

    Linking wider drug use and behaviour to our terrible booze habits isn't overly productive imo. As I don't know what the next step is if you hold that stance - make booze illegal? retain the status quo? that isn't going to improve anything.

    Would never deny that a large group of weed users have an issue, likely linked to a bunch of other issues. But many people can and do use it more responsibly than alcohol. Definite yes from me - and really hopeful it goes ahead and we can start looking at some sensible laws around access and usage.



  • @Paekakboyz said in Cannabis referendum:

    @Virgil I'm all for treating addiction/abuse as a health issue. Moving cannabis away from gangs and 'off the grid' and into a regulated environment will be a big improvement on the current situation in my opinion. Especially around synthetics which really kicked off once the party pill industry got (quite rightly) shut down, and are seemingly tied more closely to the P industry.

    Linking wider drug use and behaviour to our terrible booze habits isn't overly productive imo. As I don't know what the next step is if you hold that stance - make booze illegal? retain the status quo? that isn't going to improve anything.

    Would never deny that a large group of weed users have an issue, likely linked to a bunch of other issues. But many people can and do use it more responsibly than alcohol. Definite yes from me - and really hopeful it goes ahead and we can start looking at some sensible laws around access and usage.

    I just count my lucky stars that my drug of choice is legal, advertised and made of the finest hops, malt, water and barley.



  • @MN5 well they tell you it's the finest 🙂



  • @Paekakboyz said in Cannabis referendum:

    @MN5 well they tell you it's the finest 🙂

    Yes, I’ll continue anymore ranting in the beer thread.



  • @MN5 said in Cannabis referendum:

    @Paekakboyz said in Cannabis referendum:

    @MN5 well they tell you it's the finest 🙂

    Yes, I’ll continue anymore ranting in the beer thread.

    Neckbeard .

    Just had a horrifying thought , if it is legal there’ll be pot nerds boring the fuck out of rest of us about different strains the way beer geeks , CrossFit addicts and vegans do .

    That’s a hard no from me.



  • @jegga we are pretty much there already with the vape crisis!!



  • @Virgil said in Cannabis referendum:

    @Hooroo said in Cannabis referendum:

    @Virgil said in Cannabis referendum:

    Yeah great idea, let’s legalise pot because we are great in how as a community we drink responsibly.
    Not too mention not allow other destructive drugs like P and synthetics destroys lives and families.

    NZ is the worse country to allow reforms around cannabis. We have a binge mentality when it comes to booze. We have one of the highest rates in the world when it comes to using P.

    I'm lost on what P has to do with this? Are you saying the Weed is the gateway to P?

    Could be, more the feeling we don’t do things by half.
    We have a large lower socioeconomic element who are too dependent on drugs and booze already.
    Throw in the ability to buy weed legally I can’t see it going well.

    That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Is weed not drugs? If it is, doesn't it make it better to make it legal? If these people are buying drugs illegally do they nor know they can get weed too?



  • I looked into growing hemp recently and the palaver involved getting it approved seemed extreme. All about testing THC levels. Hopefully they would be a bit more sensible about it if weed was at least decriminalised, (although probably not in the quantities that I wanted to grow).



  • I'll vote yes because it's ridiculous that people get a criminal record over it. I've seen cases where an elderly man with cancer going through chemo was charged with possession. What a waste of police and court resources, as well as giving a harmless old guy battling a debilitating disease a criminal record.

    I think the argument around the damage it can do doesn't really hold water. There's tons of products on the market that do damage if not consumed in moderation. I'm very much on the side of not letting the government decide what is/is not good for us.



  • We are about 6 months into legalization here in Canada after years of general possession and use being largely unenforced.

    The distribution system isn't running on all cylinders but on a societal level absolutely no difference.

    Seems like a massively destructive substance if you develop a close friendship with it during your developing years which is where most of the horror stories come from - but does a lot of things. Would vote - yes.

    Fetanyl epidemic much more significant.



  • @No-Quarter said in Cannabis referendum:

    I'll vote yes because it's ridiculous that people get a criminal record over it. I've seen cases where an elderly man with cancer going through chemo was charged with possession. What a waste of police and court resources, as well as giving a harmless old guy battling a debilitating disease a criminal record.

    I think the argument around the damage it can do doesn't really hold water. There's tons of products on the market that do damage if not consumed in moderation. I'm very much on the side of not letting the government decide what is/is not good for us.

    Yes there is. There’s nothing legally stopping me having a bottle of vodka for breakfast each day and destroying my liver or deciding I have a chocolate biscuit addiction and developing type 2 diabetes. I know plenty of high functioning people who love a toke every now and again with no ramifications....



  • @rotated said in Cannabis referendum:

    We are about 6 months into legalization here in Canada after years of general possession and use being largely unenforced.

    The distribution system isn't running on all cylinders but on a societal level absolutely no difference.

    Seems like a massively destructive substance if you develop a close friendship with it during your developing years which is where most of the horror stories come from - but does a lot of things. Would vote - yes.

    Fetanyl epidemic much more significant.

    This is where the tax $$ and energy should go imo. Education for youth as part of a broad conversation about health and the short-long term impact of all drugs (alcohol and others). That should sit alongside treatment for any adults that have serious issues with weed or other drugs.

    I get a bit salty about weed reforms = free and unfettered access. When most folks (not including teenagers) want to see age restrictions and clear policy on who has access, strength of the product, plus the other checks and balances.



  • One of my good friends from Colorado will no doubt visit NZ to discuss why he thinks no is better - or at least if it’s yes it needs to be very tightly regulated- mainly it’s to do with the ways in which the strength of pot has grown now that it’s legal, but the ways in which it is available (eg, gummi bears).

    As many of the people who are likely users may also not be the closest attending parents, he argues that it makes things worse - babies get potential exposure, and there is starting to be some evidence that alternate forms of ingestion (eg eating it) brings on psychosis in some ppl as it is a stronger means of investing it.

    We’ve gone back and forth on it and I think if it is yes, we are reliant on the government putting in place very strict controls or things may go haywire.

    On the Marijuana rampage, there are some reports of ppl committing murder after ingesting edible marijuana (whether you believe or not is different). I’ve also heard of kids with marijuana gummi bears at school etc.



  • @gt12 I think we have a really good opportunity to learn from what has/hasn't worked in the US. The strength of pot plus the edible side of things are definitely areas to focus on heavily.

    Very interesting that there is a push to legalise psilocybin mushrooms based on a lot of clinical work into micro dosing and positive mental health outcomes.



  • what will the law be around driving while under the influence of it? Do they have a measure like they do for alcohol?

    I'm undecided, never tried the stuff, so will need to do my research once the referendum details are out...

    how will this affect the ambitions for a smoke free NZ by 2025? Jacinda sidestepped that question when I heard her interviewed earlier today.



  • @taniwharugby pretty sure there is testing, but unsure about accuracy or cost etc. Vaping and edibles pretty much cover the smoking side of things, although your traditionalists will probably always favour a blunt. But you'd be right to worry if you were smoking joints like ciggies!



  • @Paekakboyz smoke free is smoke free though...not saying it would replace tobacco, just it produces smoke like ciggies.

    Not sure what advances there have been in the past few years, but going back a few years there werent any accurate methods to test limits like blowing into the bag and breathaliser, more if suspected, then take back for bloods.

    Saw reports of a fatal motor where guy was under influence of it, but measures to determine levels were still not good or accurate enough, coroners report pretty much just stated significant amounts of THC in system.



  • @taniwharugby I meant you can vape bud. So there are non-smoking options.



  • @taniwharugby would also expect many instances of weed and booze for accidents etc. Far fewer purely weed related ones compared to alcohol as well.



  • @taniwharugby said in Cannabis referendum:

    what will the law be around driving while under the influence of it? Do they have a measure like they do for alcohol?

    I'm undecided, never tried the stuff, so will need to do my research once the referendum details are out...

    how will this affect the ambitions for a smoke free NZ by 2025? Jacinda sidestepped that question when I heard her interviewed earlier today.

    It's pretty tough to be too dangerous when you're driving along at 25km/h in a 50 zone, thinking you're going 70.

    alt text



  • @taniwharugby said in Cannabis referendum:

    what will the law be around driving while under the influence of it? Do they have a measure like they do for alcohol?

    Not sure how NZ does it, but in Qld cannabis is tested by performing a mouth swab, similar to how DNA is obtained. The problem with this method is it only detects the presence of cannabis in the system, it doesn't say if someone is under the influence. To get around this Qld made it illegal to drive with cannabis in your 'system', meaning you could be charged for driving a vehicle numerous days after actually consuming the stuff.



  • @taniwharugby you raise some good questions.

    1. you live in Northland, I'm sure you'll be able to find someone that can help with your "research" 😉

    2. smoke free... We won't get smokefree from a cannabis POV keeping it illegal. We'll likely get much better results if we legalise, regulate, treat addiction as a health issue, and educate young people on its effects. Note that it is not a particularly addictive substance, certainly not compared to tobacco, alcohol, caffeine or sugar.

    3. driving under the influence is a really tough one. It doesn't impair you anywhere near as much as alcohol but at the same time we wouldn't want people that have just had a smoke getting behind the wheel. Don't know what the solution is there as it stays in your system for 30 days, however two things to consider are 1) legalising is unlikely to increase usage across society and 2) we already have that problem, it's not a problem that will be introduced with this, so I don't see it as a strong reason not to legalise it.



  • @gt12 said in Cannabis referendum:

    One of my good friends from Colorado will no doubt visit NZ to discuss why he thinks no is better - or at least if it’s yes it needs to be very tightly regulated- mainly it’s to do with the ways in which the strength of pot has grown now that it’s legal, but the ways in which it is available (eg, gummi bears).

    As many of the people who are likely users may also not be the closest attending parents, he argues that it makes things worse - babies get potential exposure, and there is starting to be some evidence that alternate forms of ingestion (eg eating it) brings on psychosis in some ppl as it is a stronger means of investing it.

    We’ve gone back and forth on it and I think if it is yes, we are reliant on the government putting in place very strict controls or things may go haywire.

    On the Marijuana rampage, there are some reports of ppl committing murder after ingesting edible marijuana (whether you believe or not is different). I’ve also heard of kids with marijuana gummi bears at school etc.

    I know it can bring on episodes if people have underlying mental health issues, E.G. schizophrenia.

    Agree the strength of it should be regulated.



  • @No-Quarter despite the stereotype that everyone in Northland is on drugs, I didnt really come across it a great deal in my teenage years growing up, and I consider me and my mates had a pretty active social life, nor have I come across it much later in life either.

    THat said, I wa snever interested so didnt look for it, am sure if I was that way inclined, I'd be able to get some. It was listed as a banned substance on a code of conduct from Northland Golf too, so was another reason for me to not worry about it...girls and beers were enough trouble for me

    As I said, I had to (indirectly) deal with drug driving fatalities (NZ, wide, not just Northland) sure a small sample size of anecdotal evidence, but experiences in our lives help us form our views of things





  • I'm thinking after Labour and the greens politicised the flag referendum and actually argued against their own policy I'll vote in a way that damages labour more.
    I can't decide whether a yes vote thats defeated by a combined national party block or a no vote on a referendum is a worse look for them, maybe the first option?



  • @jegga so you are voting as a f-u to labour/green rather than your opinion on the issue? Or does it just line up nicely?



  • @Paekakboyz said in Cannabis referendum:

    @jegga so you are voting as a f-u to labour/green rather than your opinion on the issue? Or does it just line up nicely?

    An f u . I’m a fan of the Portuguese and Swiss modelsof drug decriminalisation. , I doubt these people have the political will or acumen to pull it of though .



  • @jegga that's a disappointing approach from my perspective, would be a supremely suck situation if this referendum came down to party affiliation versus the actual issue. Hoping we see people playing the ball rather than the party.



  • @Paekakboyz said in Cannabis referendum:

    @jegga that's a disappointing approach from my perspective, would be a supremely suck situation if this referendum came down to party affiliation versus the actual issue. Hoping we see people playing the ball rather than the party.

    From what I understand it’s not a binding referendum and after the referendum it goes to a vote in parliament, if that’s the case a combined National nz first block is probably going to vote it down .

    After the flag debate I don’t really feel any particular need to support labour, I haven’t decided 100% yet though .

    Do you remember how shitty labour and their cronies behaved during the flag debate despite it being their own policy ? By elections are often seen as an opportunity to give the government a bloody nose , maybe referendums should be treated the same way?



  • @jegga, man politics suck. A number of what if's that I guess we could both list, but if the first vote has big numbers in favour will the nats/nz first listen to the people. Doesn't voting that way make you just as bad in terms of taking the party v issue line? Genuine question btw.



  • @Paekakboyz said in Cannabis referendum:

    @jegga, man politics suck. A number of what if's that I guess we could both list, but if the first vote has big numbers in favour will the nats/nz first listen to the people. Doesn't voting that way make you just as bad in terms of taking the party v issue line? Genuine question btw.

    Yes it does , I’ll cop to that.

    I think the nats vote will be determined by the margin of the referendum and that will probably be decided by how labour and the greens word it. It’s pretty easy to fuck that up , I was living in Australia during their republican referendum and Howards govt made the option unpalatable by making the president chosen by parliament not by the voting public and it was rejected.

    Based on their track record so far I predict labour will find a way to fuck this up .


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