Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East
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Doubts Dog ‘Confirmed’ Syria Chemical Attacks
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UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia unlawful, court of appeal declares
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@Tim "Unlawful" seems to be very much the Grauniad spin on things. I read it that the process needs to be reviewed but in the meantime nothing is suspended?
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@Catogrande Thanks for the clarification. Was trying to read it on the bus today.
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@Tim This from the BBC
"Judges said licences should be reviewed but would not be immediately suspended"
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Trump held his nerve and did not get war fever when John Bolton and the Pentagon (and the warmongering idiot news media, but that goes without saying) were all beating the war drums and urging him to strike back at the Iranians. He is absolutely on-point to say he held off the planned attack because after he asked and was told about the projected 150 deaths, he rightly thought that cost was ridiculously disproportionate to the downing of an un-manned drone. I have no doubt he’s isn’t afraid to strike. But he is not bloodthirsty, and apparently wants to sit down for talks. I suspect he is now using Rand Paul as counsel on these matters, much moreso than his own WH staff & advisors, and that can only be a good thing.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Trump held his nerve and did not get war fever when John Bolton and the Pentagon (and the warmongering media, but that goes without saying) were all beating the war drums and urging him to strike back at the Iranians. He is absolutely on-point to say he held off the planned attack because after he asked and was told about the projected 150 deaths, he rightly thought that cost was ridiculously disproportionate to the downing of an un-manned drone. I have no doubt he’s isn’t afraid to strike. But he is not bloodthirsty, and apparently wants to sit down for talks. I suspect he is now using Rand Paul as counsel on these matters, much moreso than his own WH staff & advisors, and that can only be a good thing.
Love him or hate him, I think he handled this pretty well.
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The other calculation is an attack could have looked reckless, (and you can bet the same bozo media who was urging him to attack would easily have flipped and framed it that way regardless), and that exercising restraint displayed more strength. ‘Cos now if the Iranians do anything dirty they’ll be the ones who look reckless. And then a strike would be inevitable and justified. Get the Ayatollahs and Donald over a table. Let Dennis Rodman moderate.
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Incredibly, the New York Times is reporting that Trump made the decision not to attack Iran by taking advice from . . . Tucker Carlson??!!
Urged to Launch an Attack, Trump Listened to the Skeptics Who Said It Would Be a Costly Mistake
WASHINGTON — He heard from his generals and his diplomats. Lawmakers weighed in and so did his advisers. But among the voices ringing in President Trump’s head was that of one of his favorite Fox News hosts: Tucker Carlson.
While the president’s national security advisers were urging him to order a military strike against Iran in retaliation for shooting down an unmanned drone, Mr. Carlson in recent days had told Mr. Trump that responding to Tehran’s provocations with force was crazy. The hawks did not have Mr. Trump’s best interests at heart, he said. And if he got into a war with Iran, he could kiss goodbye to getting re-elected. [...]
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/politics/trump-iran-strike.html#click=https://t.co/GK4Loqh14X
At this point Carlson really is the closest thing to a national treasure on mainstream American cable news tv.
On tonight’s Tucker show he had on guest Glenn Greenwald providing some no-holds-barred truth about warmongers in elite Washington news media.
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@Salacious-Crumb Don't laugh too much, the idiot John Bolton was once on Fox's Red Eye late night comedy show with Cum Town's Nick Mullen, the guy who made that joke tweet above.
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@canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Salacious-Crumb said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Trump held his nerve and did not get war fever when John Bolton and the Pentagon (and the warmongering media, but that goes without saying) were all beating the war drums and urging him to strike back at the Iranians. He is absolutely on-point to say he held off the planned attack because after he asked and was told about the projected 150 deaths, he rightly thought that cost was ridiculously disproportionate to the downing of an un-manned drone. I have no doubt he’s isn’t afraid to strike. But he is not bloodthirsty, and apparently wants to sit down for talks. I suspect he is now using Rand Paul as counsel on these matters, much moreso than his own WH staff & advisors, and that can only be a good thing.
Love him or hate him, I think he handled this pretty well.
That he did.
Every President from Lyndon Johnson on has longed for personal military standing similar to Lieutenant John F, Kennedy, who served bravely under fire and demonstrated exceptional leadership in the Pacific during World War II. Americans just love their war heroes.
For each one who has chanced their arm their moment of glory has deserted them (see Salacious Crumb below "and you can bet the same bozo media who was urging him to attack would easily have flipped") yet the instinct remains.
All the historical accounts speak of the inordinate power of the military chiefs and the manufacturers who supply them (see Eisenhower's departure speech to the nation in 1961 advising "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex.") and they have many persuasive tools to convince a president to do their bidding.
It seems Donald Trump has a crystal clear view of where his talents lie, and it does not include sending young men off to war for no good reason.
Two outstanding features of Trump's presidency are that he owes no debt to anyone for it, not even the Republican Party; and he has decades of experience making decisions himself in running a monumental commercial enterprise. He is comfortable making decisions (in my business career I was astounded by the number of senior executives who shrink from making decisions) seeing them implemented and then immediately getting on with the next task.
He is demonstrably capable of performing on multiple unrelated fronts (he now has, simultaneously, North Korea beavering away to reach some accord in the next year or so; China signing up enthusiastically for coal supplies and carefully looking out for approaching battle fleets in the South China Sea; Western Europe scratching about working out what to do without the guaranteed US safety net; and a raft of domestic issues vital to his electorate (jobs, trade protection, infrastructure expenditure, illegals); Pelosi off her mad cow meds; and in no time it will be Friday again and planning for next week's tasks!
The US is most fortunate to have his steady hand on the tiller for this period. May God protect him.
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Excellent , Iran is going to be on the hook to China who are bringing in 5000 security officers . They deserve each other, I'm sure this will end well.
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@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Excellent , Iran is going to be on the hook to China who are bringing in 5000 security officers . They deserve each other, I'm sure this will end well.
It might. The enemy of my enemy and all that. China tend to at least try to make a fairer deal, as opposed to Western methods of empire building
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@canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Excellent , Iran is going to be on the hook to China who are bringing in 5000 security officers . They deserve each other, I'm sure this will end well.
It might. The enemy of my enemy and all that. China tend to at least try to make a fairer deal, as opposed to Western methods of empire building
Yeah nah, I suspect the only reason they backed down in Hong Kong is because the protests looked bad for their anniversary celebration and as soon as the eyes of the world are turned they will be back with a vengeance.
I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.
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@jegga Not to mention the Chinese governments well documented love of Islamic freedom to worship.
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@JC said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@jegga Not to mention the Chinese governments well documented love of Islamic freedom to worship.
They do seem to be very happy to do deals with countries with varying political philosophies to themselves, to exchange infrastructure investment for favours of various kinds, or to engage in preferential trade arrangements and bring them into their sphere of economic influence without feeling the need to change their systems (the so called One Belt One Road strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative). It is the West that have a long and often chequered history of trying to force change by clandestine or obviously military means
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@canefan And their handling of the Uighurs in Xinjiang? It would seem they are a little less tolerant of Muslims within their own nation. One Belt One Road appears to stop at the border.
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@JC said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan And their handling of the Uighurs in Xinjiang? It would seem they are a little less tolerant of Muslims within their own nation. One Belt One Road appears to stop at the border.
For sure. I did say other countries..... And I would imagine a big part of that is about control. Just like in HK. They are trying to squash any cause that a significant people could rally around and threaten the current power structure. Outside the borders it's all about the money
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Uyghurs are generally sunni, so Iran probably cares little about them.
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@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.
Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1
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@canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.
Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1
They cause a fair bit of trouble with their neighbors especially Israel sponsoring terrorist groups . Unfortunately so do Saudi and Qatar .
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@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.
Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1
They cause a fair bit of trouble with their neighbors especially Israel sponsoring terrorist groups . Unfortunately so do Saudi and Qatar .
So that's it I guess. They don't get on well with the Israelis, who are tight with the Yanks. Oh and they are buddy buddy with the Russians too aren't they? I imagine that's where they get their weaponry from
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@canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.
Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1
They cause a fair bit of trouble with their neighbors especially Israel sponsoring terrorist groups . Unfortunately so do Saudi and Qatar .
So that's it I guess. They don't get on well with the Israelis, who are tight with the Yanks. Oh and they are buddy buddy with the Russians too aren't they? I imagine that's where they get their weaponry from
There’s a big difference between not getting on with someone and using terrorist groups to sponsor proxy wars in Lebanon and Gaza with Israel.
I’m not saying I see the us or Russia as blameless for the troubles in the region either btw .
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@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.
Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1
They cause a fair bit of trouble with their neighbors especially Israel sponsoring terrorist groups . Unfortunately so do Saudi and Qatar .
So that's it I guess. They don't get on well with the Israelis, who are tight with the Yanks. Oh and they are buddy buddy with the Russians too aren't they? I imagine that's where they get their weaponry from
There’s a big difference between not getting on with someone and using terrorist groups to sponsor proxy wars in Lebanon and Gaza with Israel.
I’m not saying I see the us or Russia as blameless for the troubles in the region either btw .
Yeah, not trying to trivialize it. Syria is in the same boat then as far as Israel and the USA are concerned. You are right about the US and Russia, they and the other Western powers have been very active in creating instability in their pursuit to control the oil
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Also very concerning.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49703143
Kinda glad Trump gave Bolton the flick.
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@Tim said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
How on earth do they do an article on a swimwear model being paid millions by a politician and not even include a picture of the lass? Journalism really is trash.
Google tells me that it was worth it.
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@Rembrandt said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Tim said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
How on earth do they do an article on a swimwear model being paid millions by a politician and not even include a picture of the lass? Journalism really is trash.
Google tells me that it was worth it.
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There is a considerable chasm between a tosser and a piston wristed gibbon. This has now been clearly defined. Thank you.
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Jesus.
