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    Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East

    Politics
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    • Tim
      Tim last edited by

      alt text

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • Tim
        Tim last edited by

        Doubts Dog ‘Confirmed’ Syria Chemical Attacks

        https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-douma-chemical-attacks-that-led-us-to-bomb-syria-were-a-opcw-lie/

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Tim
          Tim last edited by

          UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia unlawful, court of appeal declares

          https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/jun/20/uk-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia-for-use-in-yemen-declared-unlawful

          Catogrande 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Catogrande
            Catogrande @Tim last edited by

            @Tim "Unlawful" seems to be very much the Grauniad spin on things. I read it that the process needs to be reviewed but in the meantime nothing is suspended?

            Tim 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • Tim
              Tim @Catogrande last edited by

              @Catogrande Thanks for the clarification. Was trying to read it on the bus today.

              Catogrande 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Catogrande
                Catogrande @Tim last edited by

                @Tim This from the BBC

                "Judges said licences should be reviewed but would not be immediately suspended"

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • Tim
                  Tim last edited by

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                  • Salacious Crumb
                    Salacious Crumb last edited by Salacious Crumb

                    Trump held his nerve and did not get war fever when John Bolton and the Pentagon (and the warmongering idiot news media, but that goes without saying) were all beating the war drums and urging him to strike back at the Iranians. He is absolutely on-point to say he held off the planned attack because after he asked and was told about the projected 150 deaths, he rightly thought that cost was ridiculously disproportionate to the downing of an un-manned drone. I have no doubt he’s isn’t afraid to strike. But he is not bloodthirsty, and apparently wants to sit down for talks. I suspect he is now using Rand Paul as counsel on these matters, much moreso than his own WH staff & advisors, and that can only be a good thing.

                    canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • canefan
                      canefan @Salacious Crumb last edited by

                      @Salacious-Crumb said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                      Trump held his nerve and did not get war fever when John Bolton and the Pentagon (and the warmongering media, but that goes without saying) were all beating the war drums and urging him to strike back at the Iranians. He is absolutely on-point to say he held off the planned attack because after he asked and was told about the projected 150 deaths, he rightly thought that cost was ridiculously disproportionate to the downing of an un-manned drone. I have no doubt he’s isn’t afraid to strike. But he is not bloodthirsty, and apparently wants to sit down for talks. I suspect he is now using Rand Paul as counsel on these matters, much moreso than his own WH staff & advisors, and that can only be a good thing.

                      Love him or hate him, I think he handled this pretty well.

                      Mick Gold Coast QLD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • Salacious Crumb
                        Salacious Crumb last edited by Salacious Crumb

                        The other calculation is an attack could have looked reckless, (and you can bet the same bozo media who was urging him to attack would easily have flipped and framed it that way regardless), and that exercising restraint displayed more strength. ‘Cos now if the Iranians do anything dirty they’ll be the ones who look reckless. And then a strike would be inevitable and justified. Get the Ayatollahs and Donald over a table. Let Dennis Rodman moderate.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Salacious Crumb
                          Salacious Crumb last edited by Salacious Crumb

                          Incredibly, the New York Times is reporting that Trump made the decision not to attack Iran by taking advice from . . . Tucker Carlson??!!

                          Urged to Launch an Attack, Trump Listened to the Skeptics Who Said It Would Be a Costly Mistake

                          WASHINGTON — He heard from his generals and his diplomats. Lawmakers weighed in and so did his advisers. But among the voices ringing in President Trump’s head was that of one of his favorite Fox News hosts: Tucker Carlson.

                          While the president’s national security advisers were urging him to order a military strike against Iran in retaliation for shooting down an unmanned drone, Mr. Carlson in recent days had told Mr. Trump that responding to Tehran’s provocations with force was crazy. The hawks did not have Mr. Trump’s best interests at heart, he said. And if he got into a war with Iran, he could kiss goodbye to getting re-elected. [...]

                          https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/politics/trump-iran-strike.html#click=https://t.co/GK4Loqh14X

                          At this point Carlson really is the closest thing to a national treasure on mainstream American cable news tv.

                          On tonight’s Tucker show he had on guest Glenn Greenwald providing some no-holds-barred truth about warmongers in elite Washington news media.

                          Tim 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Tim
                            Tim @Salacious Crumb last edited by

                            @Salacious-Crumb Don't laugh too much, the idiot John Bolton was once on Fox's Red Eye late night comedy show with Cum Town's Nick Mullen, the guy who made that joke tweet above.

                            alt text

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • mikedogz
                              mikedogz last edited by

                              A bit of humour that my sisters boyfriend shared. He is originally from Iran. I am still getting used to his accent.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Mick Gold Coast QLD
                                Mick Gold Coast QLD @canefan last edited by

                                @canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                @Salacious-Crumb said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                Trump held his nerve and did not get war fever when John Bolton and the Pentagon (and the warmongering media, but that goes without saying) were all beating the war drums and urging him to strike back at the Iranians. He is absolutely on-point to say he held off the planned attack because after he asked and was told about the projected 150 deaths, he rightly thought that cost was ridiculously disproportionate to the downing of an un-manned drone. I have no doubt he’s isn’t afraid to strike. But he is not bloodthirsty, and apparently wants to sit down for talks. I suspect he is now using Rand Paul as counsel on these matters, much moreso than his own WH staff & advisors, and that can only be a good thing.

                                Love him or hate him, I think he handled this pretty well.

                                That he did.

                                Every President from Lyndon Johnson on has longed for personal military standing similar to Lieutenant John F, Kennedy, who served bravely under fire and demonstrated exceptional leadership in the Pacific during World War II. Americans just love their war heroes.

                                For each one who has chanced their arm their moment of glory has deserted them (see Salacious Crumb below "and you can bet the same bozo media who was urging him to attack would easily have flipped") yet the instinct remains.

                                All the historical accounts speak of the inordinate power of the military chiefs and the manufacturers who supply them (see Eisenhower's departure speech to the nation in 1961 advising "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military–industrial complex.") and they have many persuasive tools to convince a president to do their bidding.

                                It seems Donald Trump has a crystal clear view of where his talents lie, and it does not include sending young men off to war for no good reason.

                                Two outstanding features of Trump's presidency are that he owes no debt to anyone for it, not even the Republican Party; and he has decades of experience making decisions himself in running a monumental commercial enterprise. He is comfortable making decisions (in my business career I was astounded by the number of senior executives who shrink from making decisions) seeing them implemented and then immediately getting on with the next task.

                                He is demonstrably capable of performing on multiple unrelated fronts (he now has, simultaneously, North Korea beavering away to reach some accord in the next year or so; China signing up enthusiastically for coal supplies and carefully looking out for approaching battle fleets in the South China Sea; Western Europe scratching about working out what to do without the guaranteed US safety net; and a raft of domestic issues vital to his electorate (jobs, trade protection, infrastructure expenditure, illegals); Pelosi off her mad cow meds; and in no time it will be Friday again and planning for next week's tasks!

                                The US is most fortunate to have his steady hand on the tiller for this period. May God protect him.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • Tim
                                  Tim last edited by

                                  Rembrandt MajorRage 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Rembrandt
                                    Rembrandt @Tim last edited by

                                    @Tim said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                    Very concerning

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • MajorRage
                                      MajorRage @Tim last edited by

                                      @Tim said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                      Ok this is officially terrifying.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • jegga
                                        jegga last edited by

                                        Excellent , Iran is going to be on the hook to China who are bringing in 5000 security officers . They deserve each other, I'm sure this will end well.

                                        canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • canefan
                                          canefan @jegga last edited by

                                          @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                          Excellent , Iran is going to be on the hook to China who are bringing in 5000 security officers . They deserve each other, I'm sure this will end well.

                                          It might. The enemy of my enemy and all that. China tend to at least try to make a fairer deal, as opposed to Western methods of empire building

                                          jegga 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • jegga
                                            jegga @canefan last edited by

                                            @canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                            @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                            Excellent , Iran is going to be on the hook to China who are bringing in 5000 security officers . They deserve each other, I'm sure this will end well.

                                            It might. The enemy of my enemy and all that. China tend to at least try to make a fairer deal, as opposed to Western methods of empire building

                                            Yeah nah, I suspect the only reason they backed down in Hong Kong is because the protests looked bad for their anniversary celebration and as soon as the eyes of the world are turned they will be back with a vengeance.

                                            I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.

                                            JC canefan 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • JC
                                              JC @jegga last edited by

                                              @jegga Not to mention the Chinese governments well documented love of Islamic freedom to worship.

                                              canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • canefan
                                                canefan @JC last edited by canefan

                                                @JC said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                @jegga Not to mention the Chinese governments well documented love of Islamic freedom to worship.

                                                They do seem to be very happy to do deals with countries with varying political philosophies to themselves, to exchange infrastructure investment for favours of various kinds, or to engage in preferential trade arrangements and bring them into their sphere of economic influence without feeling the need to change their systems (the so called One Belt One Road strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative). It is the West that have a long and often chequered history of trying to force change by clandestine or obviously military means

                                                JC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • JC
                                                  JC @canefan last edited by

                                                  @canefan And their handling of the Uighurs in Xinjiang? It would seem they are a little less tolerant of Muslims within their own nation. One Belt One Road appears to stop at the border.

                                                  canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                  • canefan
                                                    canefan @JC last edited by canefan

                                                    @JC said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                    @canefan And their handling of the Uighurs in Xinjiang? It would seem they are a little less tolerant of Muslims within their own nation. One Belt One Road appears to stop at the border.

                                                    For sure. I did say other countries..... And I would imagine a big part of that is about control. Just like in HK. They are trying to squash any cause that a significant people could rally around and threaten the current power structure. Outside the borders it's all about the money

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                    • Tim
                                                      Tim last edited by

                                                      Uyghurs are generally sunni, so Iran probably cares little about them.

                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                      • canefan
                                                        canefan @jegga last edited by Duluth

                                                        @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                        I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.

                                                        Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1

                                                        jegga 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • jegga
                                                          jegga @canefan last edited by

                                                          @canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                          @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                          I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.

                                                          Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1

                                                          They cause a fair bit of trouble with their neighbors especially Israel sponsoring terrorist groups . Unfortunately so do Saudi and Qatar .

                                                          canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                          • canefan
                                                            canefan @jegga last edited by canefan

                                                            @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                            @canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                            @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                            I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.

                                                            Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1

                                                            They cause a fair bit of trouble with their neighbors especially Israel sponsoring terrorist groups . Unfortunately so do Saudi and Qatar .

                                                            So that's it I guess. They don't get on well with the Israelis, who are tight with the Yanks. Oh and they are buddy buddy with the Russians too aren't they? I imagine that's where they get their weaponry from

                                                            jegga 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                            • jegga
                                                              jegga @canefan last edited by

                                                              @canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                              @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                              @canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                              @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                              I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.

                                                              Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1

                                                              They cause a fair bit of trouble with their neighbors especially Israel sponsoring terrorist groups . Unfortunately so do Saudi and Qatar .

                                                              So that's it I guess. They don't get on well with the Israelis, who are tight with the Yanks. Oh and they are buddy buddy with the Russians too aren't they? I imagine that's where they get their weaponry from

                                                              There’s a big difference between not getting on with someone and using terrorist groups to sponsor proxy wars in Lebanon and Gaza with Israel.

                                                              I’m not saying I see the us or Russia as blameless for the troubles in the region either btw .

                                                              canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                              • canefan
                                                                canefan @jegga last edited by

                                                                @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                @canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                @canefan said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                @jegga said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                I'm sure the Ayatollahs are looking forward to the extra surveillance capabilities the Chinese will be bringing with them, a hardline islamic social credit system will be awful to live under.

                                                                Funny, I perceive Iran to more moderate than most. Certainly more moderate than Saudi and Qatar. Yet the USA always see them as enemy 1

                                                                They cause a fair bit of trouble with their neighbors especially Israel sponsoring terrorist groups . Unfortunately so do Saudi and Qatar .

                                                                So that's it I guess. They don't get on well with the Israelis, who are tight with the Yanks. Oh and they are buddy buddy with the Russians too aren't they? I imagine that's where they get their weaponry from

                                                                There’s a big difference between not getting on with someone and using terrorist groups to sponsor proxy wars in Lebanon and Gaza with Israel.

                                                                I’m not saying I see the us or Russia as blameless for the troubles in the region either btw .

                                                                Yeah, not trying to trivialize it. Syria is in the same boat then as far as Israel and the USA are concerned. You are right about the US and Russia, they and the other Western powers have been very active in creating instability in their pursuit to control the oil

                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                • Rembrandt
                                                                  Rembrandt last edited by

                                                                  Also very concerning.

                                                                  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49703143

                                                                  Kinda glad Trump gave Bolton the flick.

                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                  • Tim
                                                                    Tim last edited by

                                                                    Rembrandt Bones 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • Rembrandt
                                                                      Rembrandt @Tim last edited by

                                                                      @Tim said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                      How on earth do they do an article on a swimwear model being paid millions by a politician and not even include a picture of the lass? Journalism really is trash.

                                                                      Google tells me that it was worth it.

                                                                      jegga 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                      • Bones
                                                                        Bones @Tim last edited by

                                                                        @Tim said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                        You're my boy blue!

                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                        • jegga
                                                                          jegga @Rembrandt last edited by

                                                                          @Rembrandt said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                          @Tim said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:

                                                                          How on earth do they do an article on a swimwear model being paid millions by a politician and not even include a picture of the lass? Journalism really is trash.

                                                                          Google tells me that it was worth it.

                                                                          alt text

                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                          • Tim
                                                                            Tim last edited by

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                            • Baron Silas Greenback
                                                                              Baron Silas Greenback last edited by

                                                                              https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/09/30/the-shadow-commander

                                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                              • jegga
                                                                                jegga last edited by

                                                                                Catogrande gt12 booboo 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                • Catogrande
                                                                                  Catogrande @jegga last edited by

                                                                                  @jegga

                                                                                  There is a considerable chasm between a tosser and a piston wristed gibbon. This has now been clearly defined. Thank you.

                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                                                  • gt12
                                                                                    gt12 @jegga last edited by

                                                                                    @jegga

                                                                                    Jesus.

                                                                                    Snowy 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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