RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B)



  • Everything is done and dusted in the build up to this (aside from something happening on the training ground)

    I think there are a few selections up for debate for this game, unlike big games in the last two world cups.

    Do Reece and Bridge Start?
    Does Smith go back to FullBack even if Mo'unga starts?
    Does Mo'unga start ahead of BB?
    Is it Crotty and ALB or SBW and Goodhue or another mix of those four?
    I think the loosies are settled at Cane, Read and Savea?
    Patrick T or S Barrett? I think it will be Patrick T though.
    Does Jacobsen make the bench?



  • Assuming everyone is fit

    A Smith, Mo, Reiko, Goodhue, ALB, Smith, BB



  • unless I'm wrong SA will look to play an England style game so we will have to show straight away how we plan to swing the game back to attack from rush defence.
    For that reason I think we will see the dual playmaker system. If defences are going to stop movement at the first pod then we have to recycle quickly and play a second movement while their system is getting re-jigged. If they are already set then we kick to space.
    Therefore it will be a Mounga/BB combo with Bender on the bench.
    Centres will be SBW/Goodhue with ALB on bench. I just think Crotty is a bit underdone and SBW fits the gameplan better.
    Apart from that no big surprises. Pat T starting with SB and Todd on bench.



  • Agree Rieko should start although he needs a big game.

    Patty T to start - in fine form at the moment. Jacobson on the bench - no need for another 7, especially one like Todd who isn't the most physically imposing against a big saffa pack.



  • @Crucial said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    unless I'm wrong SA will look to play an England style game so we will have to show straight away how we plan to swing the game back to attack from rush defence.
    For that reason I think we will see the dual playmaker system. If defences are going to stop movement at the first pod then we have to recycle quickly and play a second movement while their system is getting re-jigged. If they are already set then we kick to space.
    Therefore it will be a Mounga/BB combo with Bender on the bench.
    Centres will be SBW/Goodhue with ALB on bench. I just think Crotty is a bit underdone and SBW fits the gameplan better.
    Apart from that no big surprises. Pat T starting with SB and Todd on bench.

    I agree with some on that but I think a fit Crotty starts against SA. He is such a good marshaller on defence and that will be needed



  • @Hooroo said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @Crucial said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    unless I'm wrong SA will look to play an England style game so we will have to show straight away how we plan to swing the game back to attack from rush defence.
    For that reason I think we will see the dual playmaker system. If defences are going to stop movement at the first pod then we have to recycle quickly and play a second movement while their system is getting re-jigged. If they are already set then we kick to space.
    Therefore it will be a Mounga/BB combo with Bender on the bench.
    Centres will be SBW/Goodhue with ALB on bench. I just think Crotty is a bit underdone and SBW fits the gameplan better.
    Apart from that no big surprises. Pat T starting with SB and Todd on bench.

    I agree with some on that but I think a fit Crotty starts against SA. He is such a good marshaller on defence and that will be needed

    So, assuming we go the dual pivot route

    Moody
    Taylor
    Laulala
    Tuipolotu
    Whitelock
    Cane
    Read
    Savea

    Smith
    Mo'unga
    (take your pick here) - maybe Dubya?
    (and again here) - maybe ALB or Goodhue?
    Rieko
    BFA - or Bridge?
    BB

    I'm still not convinced they will play a dual pivot role, and right wing is still a bit unclear. Still strong.

    I like Goodhue against the Saffers - he's had success against them last year in Welly, with a really dominant performance. Dubya might get the start, particularly if Mo'unga is at 10 and Smith 9. Having a beast midfield coudl be useful



  • @nzzp said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @Hooroo said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @Crucial said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    unless I'm wrong SA will look to play an England style game so we will have to show straight away how we plan to swing the game back to attack from rush defence.
    For that reason I think we will see the dual playmaker system. If defences are going to stop movement at the first pod then we have to recycle quickly and play a second movement while their system is getting re-jigged. If they are already set then we kick to space.
    Therefore it will be a Mounga/BB combo with Bender on the bench.
    Centres will be SBW/Goodhue with ALB on bench. I just think Crotty is a bit underdone and SBW fits the gameplan better.
    Apart from that no big surprises. Pat T starting with SB and Todd on bench.

    I agree with some on that but I think a fit Crotty starts against SA. He is such a good marshaller on defence and that will be needed

    So, assuming we go the dual pivot route

    Moody
    Taylor
    Laulala
    Tuipolotu
    Whitelock
    Cane
    Read
    Savea

    Smith
    Mo'unga
    (take your pick here) - maybe Dubya?
    (and again here) - maybe ALB or Goodhue?
    Rieko
    BFA - or Bridge?
    BB

    I'm still not convinced they will play a dual pivot role, and right wing is still a bit unclear. Still strong.

    I like Goodhue against the Saffers - he's had success against them last year in Welly, with a really dominant performance. Dubya might get the start, particularly if Mo'unga is at 10 and Smith 9. Having a beast midfield coudl be useful

    Wait! what?

    You have just raised another selection debate that I thought was set in stone!! I have Coles starting over Taylor!!



  • I predict SBW starting - not necessarily my pick but my gut feeling.



  • @Hooroo said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @nzzp said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @Hooroo said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @Crucial said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    unless I'm wrong SA will look to play an England style game so we will have to show straight away how we plan to swing the game back to attack from rush defence.
    For that reason I think we will see the dual playmaker system. If defences are going to stop movement at the first pod then we have to recycle quickly and play a second movement while their system is getting re-jigged. If they are already set then we kick to space.
    Therefore it will be a Mounga/BB combo with Bender on the bench.
    Centres will be SBW/Goodhue with ALB on bench. I just think Crotty is a bit underdone and SBW fits the gameplan better.
    Apart from that no big surprises. Pat T starting with SB and Todd on bench.

    I agree with some on that but I think a fit Crotty starts against SA. He is such a good marshaller on defence and that will be needed

    So, assuming we go the dual pivot route

    Moody
    Taylor
    Laulala
    Tuipolotu
    Whitelock
    Cane
    Read
    Savea

    Smith
    Mo'unga
    (take your pick here) - maybe Dubya?
    (and again here) - maybe ALB or Goodhue?
    Rieko
    BFA - or Bridge?
    BB

    I'm still not convinced they will play a dual pivot role, and right wing is still a bit unclear. Still strong.

    I like Goodhue against the Saffers - he's had success against them last year in Welly, with a really dominant performance. Dubya might get the start, particularly if Mo'unga is at 10 and Smith 9. Having a beast midfield coudl be useful

    Wait! what?

    You have just raised another selection debate that I thought was set in stone!! I have Coles starting over Taylor!!

    wondered if that would raise any eyebrows 🙂



  • @nzzp I reckon the mid-field and hooker are likely horses for courses type selections.

    v Aus, I'd say as they tend to be a bit looser, you have Coles at 2, ALB in the mid-field, but v opposition who are a bit tighter, Taylor at 2, then Goodhue in the mid-field.



  • @taniwharugby said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @nzzp I reckon the mid-field and hooker are likely horses for courses type selections.

    v Aus, I'd say as they tend to be a bit looser, you have Coles at 2, ALB in the mid-field, but v opposition who are a bit tighter, Taylor at 2, then Goodhue in the mid-field.

    Don't disagree at all.

    My personal team against SA would have a SBW-Goodhue midfield, and frankly I prefer BFA at the back, Rieko at the left, and Bridge or AN Other on the right. That forces BB to 10, but I'm ok with that. Against SA you need some really physical players, and SBW could bring it.

    This depends on both SBW and Goodhue being fit. If they haven't played for too long, we may well see a fitness drive Crotty/ALB midfield, with SBW and Goodhue easing back in throuhg the pools.

    If you're the Saffers, what do you prepare for? Does anyone know the style NZ will play - dual playmakers, conventional 10 with pods, etc. Hopefully their coach falls into the trap of over-preparing for too many systems and confuses the hell out of the players



  • @Hooroo said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    You have just raised another selection debate that I thought was set in stone!! I have Coles starting over Taylor!!

    If the plan is fast, mobile move the ball away from the big SA guys, then you are probably right. Not that Taylor is slow but Coles (when he is fit) is more likely to suit the plan. Same with the dual play makers, I reckon.

    Mid field - I have no idea what they will do. I suspect SBW and Goodhue with ALB on bench, but it really could be any combo.



  • @nzzp as I said in another thread, the way Hansen spoke last week, if the final was on Saturday, SBW, Goodhue and Cane would all have been available...



  • @taniwharugby said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    v Aus, I'd say as they tend to be a bit looser, you have Coles at 2, ALB in the mid-field, but v opposition who are a bit tighter, Taylor at 2, then Goodhue in the mid-field.

    It really does depend on the plan against the different styles. Do you play to your own strengths (which I think we will and should) or counter the oppositions?



  • @Snowy but does one style of play with certain personell nullify the opposition and allow you to play how you want better 🙂



  • @taniwharugby Indeed, or change the plan having blunted the opposition plan by using the bench, and changing your own plan. Baldrick would be proud of so many cunning plans. Coaching dilemmas.



  • Against SA you need some really physical players> >

    ... and some black boots. And it looks like from the official RWC team photo, we will get our wish.



  • huh, would you look at that. turns out i won't even watch it. I'm going camping. go team



  • 12 months ago or even 12 weeks ago I think everyone would’ve thought this thread would be led with “who plays at number 6”.

    I think Taylor should start over Coles. I like Coles finishing the test and it’s less time for him to have a brain fade.



  • @mariner4life said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    huh, would you look at that. turns out i won't even watch it. I'm going camping. go team

    Yay! Nothing quite like someone else organising your itinerary during the WC!



  • @Hooroo said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @mariner4life said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    huh, would you look at that. turns out i won't even watch it. I'm going camping. go team

    Yay! Nothing quite like someone else organising your itinerary during the WC!

    i organised it. A long weekend somewhere remote is very much required.



  • @mariner4life Yeah - the police will definitely expect you to be somewhere near a TV!



  • I think they will pick:

    Moody
    Coles
    Laulala
    Whitelock
    Tuipolotou
    Savea
    Cane
    Read
    Smith
    Mo'unga
    Bridge
    SBW
    ALB
    Smith
    Barrett

    Tu'ungafasi
    Taylor
    Ta'avao
    Barrett
    Todd
    Perenara
    Crotty
    Ioane

    Hookers could easily be swapped.

    Centre could be any of ALB, Crotty or Goodhue, but I reckon Jack hasn't played recently enough, so he'll be the one who misses. I reckon SBW is locked in at second-five.

    Wings - well who knows.

    I'll be pretty amazed if we don't have the dual pivots.



  • @mariner4life said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    somewhere remote is very much required.

    The cat, the dog, and the wife will be hoping that I am least somewhere remote from them, when watching that. I can get a little "emotionally invested".

    Not to mention Garces is the ref.



  • Reiko hasn't done enough for me to start. Bridge gets the nod there, with Smith moving back to the right wing to accommodate the Barrett and Mo'unga combo.

    Fairly straight forward everywhere else.
    Moody
    Coles
    Laulala
    Tuipolotu
    Whitelock
    Savea
    Cane
    Read
    Smith
    Mo'unga
    Bridge
    Crotty
    Goodhue
    Smith
    Barrett

    Taylor
    Tu'ungafasi
    Ta'avao
    Barrett
    Todd
    Perenara
    Leinert-Brown
    Barrett



  • @Canes4life You reckon they will leave SBW out altogether? Or is that your picks?



  • @Canes4life said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    Reiko hasn't done enough for me to start. Bridge gets the nod there, with Smith moving back to the right wing to accommodate the Barrett and Mo'unga combo.

    Fairly straight forward everywhere else.
    Moody
    Coles
    Laulala
    Tuipolotu
    Whitelock
    Savea
    Cane
    Read
    Smith
    Mo'unga
    Bridge
    Crotty
    Goodhue
    Smith
    Barrett

    Taylor
    Tu'ungafasi
    Ta'avao
    Barrett
    Todd
    Perenara
    Leinert-Brown
    Barrett

    I hate that we accommodate!!!!! I don't like Smith on the wing. I want our best fullback at full back and our best wingers on the wing. Rissole B Barrett out if need be or put him at 1st 5



  • I've got a pretty strong feeling there will be no dual playmakers for this one in the starting XV. Barrett at 10 and Smith at 15.



  • @rotated said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    I've got a pretty strong feeling there will be no dual playmakers for this one in the starting XV. Barrett at 10 and Smith at 15.

    That doesn’t trump my really strong feeling that Mo’unga and Barrett start.



  • @Snowy or they'll spanner us all and throw SBW/Crotty into the mid-field.



  • ABs FB page says 'big announcement coming up shortly'

    Maybe they solved to mystery of Josh Ioane?



  • @taniwharugby said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    @Snowy or they'll spanner us all and throw SBW/Crotty into the mid-field.

    Quite likely - they do talk up experience a lot.

    So we then need two mid fielders on the bench.



  • @Snowy ALB and JB, JB can cover everything from halfback out



  • @taniwharugby and lock. Ardie has 12 covered too.



  • This is what I think the selectors will do, not necessarily what I'd do.

    1. Coles

    12/13. SBW & Goodhue. I think the selectors see these two as their no.1 centre pairing and will get the nod with ALB on the bench. Goodhue seems to be one of those players that can come back in after a lay off and show no signs of rust.

    11/14/15 I think the'll stick with BB at 15. As for the wings, it's a bloody lottery.



  • @taniwharugby said in RWC All Blacks v South Africa:

    ABs FB page says 'big announcement coming up shortly'

    Maybe they solved to mystery of Josh Ioane?

    They're naming Fozzie coach now, while the going is good, in case it turns to shit later...! 🙂



  • @Chris-B Saw it on Twitter and thought the same.



  • @Chris-B or maybe Fozzie will say he will NOT be applying for the top job...



  • Mark Robinson new NZR CEO



  • Actually, I predict it will be something not particularly big.

    I don't think they'd handle it quite like this if it was someone injured and needing to be replaced.