RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B)



  • @Rapido said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Whose up for a laugh ... ?

    Wow.

    I'd give that about 5 correct about 10 wrong.

    Previously I had only noticed Malherbe's binding in one of the Moody elbows down scrums - until this helpful video, he was literally doing it all day ref.

    Only correct ones were 2 of the knockons, couple of side entries, plus the Vermeulen penalty. Although while focusing on red herring of Moody he ignored Ardie ending up being at the wrong side of that disintegrating maul for the rip.

    The Marx clean should not be repeated.



  • @mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @dogmeat said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Could get quite messy for anyone astern on a lee tack though

    those aren't even real words!

    Andy Haden after John McEldowney indulged the night before on pasta and Italian red?



  • @Tim Here are all Canon's short RWC action clips, stitched together to give on-field & aerial viewing angles. choose the res. https://global.canon/en/event/rwc2019/special/viewpoint.html



  • @zephyr Cheers!



  • @Rapido said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Previously I had only noticed Malherbe's binding in one of the Moody elbows down scrums - until this helpful video, he was literally doing it all day ref.

    Thanks for pointing that out - I borrowed it to comment at the source! 🙂



  • @Rapido said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    It really does reveal the 'narrative' is irrelevant to what actually happens on the pitch. Divorced from reality.

    In a game in which:

    • Mapimpi avoided yellow card for a Professional Foul
    • PSDT interfered in a 5 on 0 overlap in an offside position and then intercepted - from which Saf eventually score try (14 point turnaround )
    • Savea was head high tackled by Etzebeth (unpunished)
    • Savea was head high tackled by PSDT (unpunished)
    • plus add your own minor everyday quibbles here .... that your own one eye spots. E.g. a Malherbe bind or 2, a minor Faf head high on Beauden , an Etzebeth neck roll, a Faf shepherd on Bridge to allow Kolbe nearly try, horseshit lineout penalty against whitelock, harsh rolling away penalty on Laulala milked.... etc - are on my list.

    People are making videos about AB ref bias. Unbelievable! After this game ?!?!?

    Pick your battles better, like a game where NZ actually did get the rub of the green.

    Something about the South African psyche goes hand in hand with the kind of bitterness that goes into making one of these vids. We kiwis can't be arsed even when we lose to a dodgy ref, we just have a quick whinge then move on with our lives.



  • @mofitzy_ said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @Rapido said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    It really does reveal the 'narrative' is irrelevant to what actually happens on the pitch. Divorced from reality.

    In a game in which:

    • Mapimpi avoided yellow card for a Professional Foul
    • PSDT interfered in a 5 on 0 overlap in an offside position and then intercepted - from which Saf eventually score try (14 point turnaround )
    • Savea was head high tackled by Etzebeth (unpunished)
    • Savea was head high tackled by PSDT (unpunished)
    • plus add your own minor everyday quibbles here .... that your own one eye spots. E.g. a Malherbe bind or 2, a minor Faf head high on Beauden , an Etzebeth neck roll, a Faf shepherd on Bridge to allow Kolbe nearly try, horseshit lineout penalty against whitelock, harsh rolling away penalty on Laulala milked.... etc - are on my list.

    People are making videos about AB ref bias. Unbelievable! After this game ?!?!?

    Pick your battles better, like a game where NZ actually did get the rub of the green.

    Something about the South African psyche goes hand in hand with the kind of bitterness that goes into making one of these vids. We kiwis can't be arsed even when we lose to a dodgy ref, we just have a quick whinge then move on with our lives.

    Ever heard of this Pommy ref Barnes?

    Or this Irish dude that could have died?



  • @dogmeat all relative bro, quick when comparing with movement of a glacier...



  • @mofitzy_ Not sure all SAFFA rugby fans are like this.... A bit of a dickish generalisation about a great rugby nation and it's people actually if I'm being honest



  • @dogmeat
    Touché, maybe we just don't have the work ethic of the jaapies.😂



  • @Siam said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @mofitzy_ Not sure all SAFFA rugby fans are like this.... A bit of a dickish generalisation about a great rugby nation and it's people actually if I'm being honest

    Fair enough. But if we are being honest, there is a reason why that Spitting Image song was made.



  • I think the first 3 scrums show a pretty clear PK.

    To the AB's.

    The Bok prop alters his bind to Moody's arm and then exerts downward pressure. He had an excellent long bind, and then in each case he released and went onto Moody's elbow. Of course Moody's elbow went down to the ground, it had nowhere else to go. I suspect Garces saw the elbow on the ground, was not sure which team was infringing and so with the ball at the back he just played on.

    The 2 scrums cited where SA got on top and the video make claimed a PK were ridiculous. The AB's went backwards but did not infringe. They did very well to get the ball out of the scrum asap to avoid a PK.

    Both knockons were very marginal and should have been let go - I thought so at the time. I also thought the A Smith one might have been a knockon, though probably it was . To be consistent, having called the other two, Garces probably should called the A Smith one.

    The in the side offences aren't really comparable. It's apples to oranges.

    The first SA one shows the Bok player coming in from the side and going right onto the ball (he also went straight onto his hands as well, but that is by the by). Had he been allowed to profit from his in the side, his team would have probably won the ball. The other examples are very different.

    The Moody one was in the side, but it was to clear out a player who was already ineffective and the ball won. I can easily see a ref just waving that on. Marginal shoulder charge that happens in just about every ruck. Not great, but hardly worth worrying about.

    The Coles one certainly looks bad (and was very material because it cleared out a player on the ball) but probably wasn't in the side. He get's one foot behind the last part of the tackle before making contact with the tackle. That is enough in my view to not be in the side.

    I haven't gone through the game on slow motion, but I refuse to believe that only the AB's were coming in the side to clear out like that. In fact, if they were the only team doing it, that could be seen as an indictment on the Boks for not reading the situation properly.

    Notably not shown are:

    • The first PK the Boks got, in which the jackler clearly went off his feet and played the ball;

    • The dubious lineout PK against Whitelock, which should have been a Free Kick To NZ (not bringing the jumper down safely);

    • The non YC given when 5m from the line;

    • The 3-4 high tackles from the Boks that were not picked up.

    So the video is a bit of right, a bit of wrong, but mainly just a lot of yawn. Anyone with enough time, and an axe to grind can make a video like this after every test match showing "grievances".

    Frankly I wonder if the video might have been made by a fan from another country to troll the South African fans a little bit.



  • I think we're all better off having a laugh and moving on. I'm not going to brush a whole country with the idiot brush based on internet comments and videos from 0.0001% of their population.

    That even extends to Australians despite the existence of GAGR.



  • @antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    I think we're all better off having a laugh and moving on. I'm not going to brush a whole country with the idiot brush based on internet comments and videos from 0.0001% of their population.

    That even extends to Australians despite the existence of GAGR.

    You are so magnanimous when we win

    I love a good stereotype



  • Gets tiring when they comment everywhere including official AB, RWC, and WR pages though. Even if it's a vocal minority, they are really vocal.



  • @mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    I think we're all better off having a laugh and moving on. I'm not going to brush a whole country with the idiot brush based on internet comments and videos from 0.0001% of their population.

    That even extends to Australians despite the existence of GAGR.

    You are so magnanimous when we win

    I love a good stereotype

    I'm a great bloke. Modest too.



  • @mofitzy_ said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Gets tiring when they comment everywhere including official AB, RWC, and WR pages though. Even if it's a vocal minority, they are really vocal.

    The quiet Australians aren’t doing it.



  • @antipodean said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    I think we're all better off having a laugh and moving on. I'm not going to brush a whole country with the idiot brush based on internet comments and videos from 0.0001% of their population.

    That even extends to Australians despite the existence of GAGR.

    I will though. Can I huh? Can I? Can I?



  • Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.

    Great tries though, both rippers created from fuck all. But for the rest of the game the ABs couldn't do much against that outside in defense.

    The South Africans should take the lesson that they look better with a bit of width on the game, and feed their outsides.

    I need to say, for all I call the Irish boring, 33 minutes of the first half was turgid trench warfare rugby of the worst kind. The opening of the 2nd half where the saffers cut us up was the best bit of the whole game.

    Still, the ability to settle and kill the game was a pretty good positive.



  • If they can throw a better forward pack at us and create more on attack, and still lose by 10 points, I would say they were nullified pretty well.



  • @mariner4life We had to withstand the Saffas initial assault, they tried everything and rarely found a way through. They made so little headway, and their primary strike weapon was the box kick. We toiled away, trying to break through their line and admittedly some of it looked crazy and unstructured, but we lit them up for about the final ten minutes and Bridge finished a brilliant move. After subs at half time (including the ridiculous Sam Cane incident) we lost impetus, but when it looked like SA could pull past us we shut them out. That 10 point margin flattered them IMHO, if you take into account the dead cert YC that wasn't given when we were metres from the try line and the PSDT intercept from an offside position; we should have been up at least another 7 to 10 points or more. We were far from perfect (and don't need or want to be at this stage) but struck a body blow and psychological hit to one of our biggest threats in the tourney. Job well done I say



  • @zephyr said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @Tim Here are all Canon's short RWC action clips, stitched together to give on-field & aerial viewing angles. choose the res. https://global.canon/en/event/rwc2019/special/viewpoint.html

    Interesting watching the S Barret try, the SA 10 put on a great hit against the chasing bok, who may have caught Barret, probably not, but still a great assist. Didn't see any arms in it, should have been a YC.



  • Inclined to agree with both of you.

    Although all of this "See you in the final" stuff is rather silly. If things go as they are scheduled to, we first have to get past Scotland (funnier things have happened in World Cups) & then we'll have to beat an Eddie Jones coached England in the semi. That man is a world cup mastermind, and that game will be almost impossible to call.

    SA are due to face the Irish in the QF. At this point in time ,I'd say the chances of an SA NZ final are < 10%.



  • @MajorRage
    England? Could just as easily be France (or possibly even Argentina?)

    Agree with the post sentiment though.



  • @mofitzy_ said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @MajorRage
    England? Could just as easily be France (or possibly even Argentina?)

    Agree with the post sentiment though.

    I’m lay down Misere England will be in that SF.



  • @MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Inclined to agree with both of you.

    Although all of this "See you in the final" stuff is rather silly. If things go as they are scheduled to, we first have to get past Scotland (funnier things have happened in World Cups) & then we'll have to beat an Eddie Jones coached England in the semi. That man is a world cup mastermind, and that game will be almost impossible to call.

    SA are due to face the Irish in the QF. At this point in time ,I'd say the chances of an SA NZ final are < 10%.

    We are not losing to Scotland. They were diabolical vs Ireland. Just as they have been awful all year. Scotland will do well just to get into a quarter final.



  • @MajorRage firstly, my fellow Jarpie fans need to quit the bloody whinging. As I’ve said before, good teams embrace and overcome the vagaries of the weather, bounce of the odd shaped ball and French refs.

    Secondly, the boks didn’t stress areas where there was lots of space and they have the upper hand. I was losing it because we didn’t drive round the ruck or run off nine or Pollard’s shoulder.

    Third, the biggest difference between the sides was the loosies. Ardie and Cane and to a lesser extent, Read, simply outplayed their opposites. I haven’t managed to watch the footage but live I hardly noticed Kolisi.



  • @Smuts said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @MajorRage firstly, my fellow Jarpie fans need to quit the bloody whinging. As I’ve said before, good teams embrace and overcome the vagaries of the weather, bounce of the odd shaped ball and French refs.

    Secondly, the boks didn’t stress areas where there was lots of space and they have the upper hand. I was losing it because we didn’t drive round the ruck or run off nine or Pollard’s shoulder.

    Third, the biggest difference between the sides was the loosies. Ardie and Cane and to a lesser extent, Read, simply outplayed their opposites. I haven’t managed to watch the footage but live I hardly noticed Kolisi.

    So...fine, dry particles, devoid of moisture?



  • @Bones nothing a solemn understanding sealed with blood shouldn’t be able to overcome...



  • @Smuts said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @Bones nothing a solemn understanding sealed with blood shouldn’t be able to overcome...

    When in Rome!





  • @mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.

    Great tries though, both rippers created from fuck all. But for the rest of the game the ABs couldn't do much against that outside in defense.

    The South Africans should take the lesson that they look better with a bit of width on the game, and feed their outsides.

    I need to say, for all I call the Irish boring, 33 minutes of the first half was turgid trench warfare rugby of the worst kind. The opening of the 2nd half where the saffers cut us up was the best bit of the whole game.

    Still, the ability to settle and kill the game was a pretty good positive.

    I think that game means little should we play them again, its a new game, anything can happen



  • We are a couple wins, a loss and a draw against SA this season. So hopefully we don't play them again.



  • @kiwiinmelb said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    I think that game means little should we play them again, its a new game, anything can happen

    A lot of those concerns can be answered by the return of Brodie.



  • @mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.

    This is how they play though - same thing in the semi in 2015. Their forwards beat us up all game with power running, but we held them out. It looked awesome, but if you don't generate fast ball, wear down defenders or suck in a heap of players it doesn't achieve much.

    Same thing again in Wellington the first half this year (or maybe last year???) - they batter us physically, we get two sniffs and score two tries. Damn near win the game as a result.

    We knew what they were going to bring, stood up to it well, and kept enough energy to get to teh end of the game still firing.



  • @nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.

    This is how they play though - same thing in the semi in 2015. Their forwards beat us up all game with power running, but we held them out. It looked awesome, but if you don't generate fast ball, wear down defenders or suck in a heap of players it doesn't achieve much.

    Same thing again in Wellington the first half this year (or maybe last year???) - they batter us physically, we get two sniffs and score two tries. Damn near win the game as a result.

    We knew what they were going to bring, stood up to it well, and kept enough energy to get to teh end of the game still firing.

    I honestly don’t know why anybody is the least bit surprised by the way this played out. As long as I’ve been watching tests the Boks have always brought a game that was more brute strength than finesse. That’s not to say they didn’t have skill, because they did, but that wasn’t their USP. That was being massive units who sought to dominate the opposition, so in my head the Boks have always been like this and played that way. So I had to laugh at their showing off their size and physiques as if it was a new strategy because it’s actually a reversion to type. But hey why not, it was bloody successful for most of their history.

    Anyway the ABs in the past found ways to counter a much more physical SA pack and they’ll handle it again, I’m sure. If the Boks keeping picking men in the centres who are the size of wardrobes and change direction like it, that makes the job that little bit easier.

    I’m much more worried about Ireland, frankly.



  • @nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @mariner4life said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Finally watched it. I'm less confident now than when I actually only knew the result. I actually think the South Africans have been the better side. I think their forwards beat us, and they created more on attack. We had 7 good minutes and fuck all else.

    This is how they play though - same thing in the semi in 2015. Their forwards beat us up all game with power running, but we held them out. It looked awesome, but if you don't generate fast ball, wear down defenders or suck in a heap of players it doesn't achieve much.

    Same thing again in Wellington the first half this year (or maybe last year???) - they batter us physically, we get two sniffs and score two tries. Damn near win the game as a result.

    We knew what they were going to bring, stood up to it well, and kept enough energy to get to teh end of the game still firing.

    Not only that, in Wellie we should have won it, but for some poor handling and a freakish intercept try at the death. Even then they only managed a draw and were really happy about it. Basically their game plan revolves around waiting for us to screw up



  • @Billy-Tell said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    @MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool 😎:

    Inclined to agree with both of you.

    Although all of this "See you in the final" stuff is rather silly. If things go as they are scheduled to, we first have to get past Scotland (funnier things have happened in World Cups) & then we'll have to beat an Eddie Jones coached England in the semi. That man is a world cup mastermind, and that game will be almost impossible to call.

    SA are due to face the Irish in the QF. At this point in time ,I'd say the chances of an SA NZ final are < 10%.

    We are not losing to Scotland. They were diabolical vs Ireland. Just as they have been awful all year. Scotland will do well just to get into a quarter final.

    It could easily be the host nation in the QF. Scotland were abject, to put it very mildly. And their tartan jerseys are a disgrace



  • And yet, for all that, arguably the most dangerous player on the park was their winger, and we were one very poor pass to him away from being in trouble.

    It's great we won, and there were some good signs, especially on the defensive side, but it wasn't exactly a statement.



  • Just a couple of more specific points.

    Sam Cane is vital for us. Ardie is the energy, Cane is the muscle. His work on defense is unbelievable, constantly up off the line making solid hits.
    Read had a bloody good game. It's not the Read of 4 years ago, but this version is physical as fuck, and constantly applying pressure.
    When Retallick is back, which lock does he replace? I am not the biggest fan of Barrett, but he was very visable on Saturday, whereas i am not sure the last time Whitelock had a big game.
    What has happened to our defensive lineout?
    I'm pretty happy with that wing combo. At least as good as the Africans under the high ball, one is a bit of a spark on attack, the other is a smart footballer with a huge appetite for work.


Log in to reply