RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool B)



  • So one down, 6 to go.

    Do we expect to see 50% of the starting line up swapped out or benched? I expect Reiko will have a spin at the wheel and score a few too.

    Are we all happy so far? I certainly am.



  • I think we will see one of two things;

    1. The majority of the top team play this one, given itโ€™s a 10 day turn around from the SA game, then most of those guys sit out the Namibia game given itโ€™s only a 4 day turn around between those games, then back to the top team for Italy.

    Or 2, half the top team play this one, and the other half play Namibia.

    Edit, and yes very happy so far.



  • Shage said everyone will get a run over these two games, makes sense, esp with a 4 day turn around. Hopefully that 'everyone' includes a nice warm up for BBBR back early!



  • I wonder if Reiko can push himself back into the frame here? Not exactly top notch opposition.



  • @Rembrandt said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    I wonder if Reiko can push himself back into the frame here? Not exactly top notch opposition.

    Iguess they'll be playing their midweek intra team games like last time.



  • @Hooroo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Are we all happy so far? I certainly am.

    Based on the other thread some clearly arenโ€™t because the ABs didnโ€™t play a perfect match against the Boks.

    Iโ€™m happy, we are 1-0 and winning is what matters at RWCโ€™s.

    On this test, a few questions as to who plays 1st 5. Do they give it Richie and Beauden doesnโ€™t feature in the 23? Or vice versa. I donโ€™t think both feature in 23 is what Iโ€™m getting at. Jordie as back up.

    Boks - strongest side
    Canada - the rest + mix of strongest side
    Namibia - all non strongest side starters to start.
    Italy - mixed/strongest side



  • @Rembrandt said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    I wonder if Reiko can push himself back into the frame here? Not exactly top notch opposition.

    Just quietly - it's Rieko - some people get upset about that, but yes play an error free game, high work rate, train well and he should be in the picture.



  • I am happy but I wouldn't get too carried away. We looked good against England in 99 pool play too which was a much hyped pool game from memory.

    Rieko's problem is Bridge's game seems far better suited to today's test rugby. Perhaps that's an indictment on today's test rugby (seriously how many box kicks have their been already) but Bridge is superior in the air, Bridge has superior workrate, he's as good of a link player, and Bridge actually has a kicking game. Rieko is a better ball runner (when in form) but up against Boks/Ireland etc Bridge's skillset seems far more useful. For all Rieko's early career greatness - he's got the exact same game he had 2 years ago (plus his form on that is way down). He hasn't developed his game at all - why hasn't he been working on a kicking game?



  • The interest will be how Hansen rotates his players in the next 3 games, particularly the front row and locks. Tu'ungafasi will be switching between LH and TH depending on who gets rested. Frizell could be used as a lock if required until BBBR is fit.



  • @Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    The interest will be how Hansen rotates his players in the next 3 games, particularly the front row and locks. Tu'ungafasi will be switching between LH and TH depending on who gets rested. Frizell could be used as a lock if required until BBBR is fit.

    Agree on Frizell playing lock.

    Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?

    Given Italy is our final pool game I think they will want to play close to or even the same side they will want playing the QF.

    And yes Iโ€™m not in the olโ€™ Henry-theory canโ€™t play 3 intense tests in a row camp.



  • @KiwiMurph said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    I am happy but I wouldn't get too carried away. We looked good against England in 99 pool play too which was a much hyped pool game from memory.

    Rieko's problem is Bridge's game seems far better suited to today's test rugby. Perhaps that's an indictment on today's test rugby (seriously how many box kicks have their been already) but Bridge is superior in the air, Bridge has superior workrate, he's as good of a link player, and Bridge actually has a kicking game. Rieko is a better ball runner (when in form) but up against Boks/Ireland etc Bridge's skillset seems far more useful. For all Rieko's early career greatness - he's got the exact same game he had 2 years ago (plus his form on that is way down). He hasn't developed his game at all - why hasn't he been working on a kicking game?

    Very good question.

    Possibly because, like his brother, he has dominated earlier age grade rugby. Why work on further skills when you have been kicking ass all your life?

    George Bridge is similar to Ben Smith, nowhere near as naturally talented as the Ioane brothers but has had to constantly improve.

    Thus, he has a very different mindset.



  • Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.

    Listened to an interview with A Smith who said the big game changer for him was not getting a super rugby contract and being told by the Hurricanes he was too fat and unfit. He didnโ€™t realise at the time just how much hard work was required to get to the top level. Guess the key is to get the naturally gifted with the work ethic of the Goat.



  • @chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic.

    That applies to life in general but the guys with the talent that don't use it annoy me (having none - talent that is).



  • @chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.

    Listened to an interview with A Smith who said the big game changer for him was not getting a super rugby contract and being told by the Hurricanes he was too fat and unfit. He didnโ€™t realise at the time just how much hard work was required to get to the top level. Guess the key is to get the naturally gifted with the work ethic of the Goat.

    Michael Jordan never made his high school basketball team. He used that and other slights, real or imagined, to fuel his HoF career



  • @ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    The interest will be how Hansen rotates his players in the next 3 games, particularly the front row and locks. Tu'ungafasi will be switching between LH and TH depending on who gets rested. Frizell could be used as a lock if required until BBBR is fit.

    Agree on Frizell playing lock.

    Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?

    Given Italy is our final pool game I think they will want to play close to or even the same side they will want playing the QF.

    And yes Iโ€™m not in the olโ€™ Henry-theory canโ€™t play 3 intense tests in a row camp.

    They're just going to have to huh?



  • @canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.

    Listened to an interview with A Smith who said the big game changer for him was not getting a super rugby contract and being told by the Hurricanes he was too fat and unfit. He didnโ€™t realise at the time just how much hard work was required to get to the top level. Guess the key is to get the naturally gifted with the work ethic of the Goat.

    Michael Jordan never made his high school basketball team. He used that and other slights, real or imagined, to fuel his HoF career

    30 for 30 on Brian Boswell: "Brian and The Bos".

    Was the best player in the team but kept working hard. (Until he didn't. )



  • @booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    The interest will be how Hansen rotates his players in the next 3 games, particularly the front row and locks. Tu'ungafasi will be switching between LH and TH depending on who gets rested. Frizell could be used as a lock if required until BBBR is fit.

    Agree on Frizell playing lock.

    Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?

    Given Italy is our final pool game I think they will want to play close to or even the same side they will want playing the QF.

    And yes Iโ€™m not in the olโ€™ Henry-theory canโ€™t play 3 intense tests in a row camp.

    They're just going to have to huh?

    I think Henry is being unfairly maligned. His comment is that there is a performance dropoff int he third week of tough tests, and it's really hard to maintain standards. I think he's right ... it doesn't mean you can't win it (obviously), but it does compromise your performance.





  • @Hooroo said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Are we all happy so far? I certainly am.

    It's the pool stages of the RWC, of course I'm bloody happy. I might be a miserable bastard but if you can't enjoy things now you never will.

    As far as the ABs, two big performances, under pressure in the past three tests is pretty bloody good and to see ALB and Savea step up big time and be counted is satisfying.

    My overall opinion of the team is about the same as it was at the start of the year... the centre combo, iffy goal kicking and lack of any squad members with previous RWC pain are the major landmines, but providing the ABs can get the Scotland/Japan/Samoa QF they are capable and should be favoured to navigate through like the Boks in 2007.

    They are now on that side so happy days.

    Going forward the only selection of serious interest is the centres where they surely now have to force four into three; where two are sacred cows, but the other two are undroppable on form. Perhaps Goodhue's injury makes this academic?



  • @chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.

    On the other hand thought there is a hockey study which I believe has been replicated in other sports showing kids born in the months immediately after age-grade cut offs (i.e. biggest/oldest in their age grade) are more likely to make rep teams growing up and in turn are more likely to make the pros. It is a distinct advantage.

    What is the age grade cut off for rugby in NZ? What is McCaw's birthday?



  • 31 December 1980

    usually age at 1 January



  • @mikedogz said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    31 December 1980

    For Richie six days late really.



  • @nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    I think Henry is being unfairly maligned. His comment is that there is a performance dropoff int he third week of tough tests, and it's really hard to maintain standards. I think he's right ... it doesn't mean you can't win it (obviously), but it does compromise your performance.

    It's all a bit bullshit either way though, as each and every knock-out opposition is coming off equally hard games in a row too.
    we do have more depth than others, so it could be beneficial to rotate more, but how? the minnows are no challenge to the 'B'-est team we could put out, so we can rest for them as can all the big teams. you can't rest players for a semi or final, you might be able to sub early in a 1/4, but that's about it.



  • @rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.

    On the other hand thought there is a hockey study which I believe has been replicated in other sports showing kids born in the months immediately after age-grade cut offs (i.e. biggest/oldest in their age grade) are more likely to make rep teams growing up and in turn are more likely to make the pros. It is a distinct advantage.

    yep. not a surprising result at all - make the reps early, get all the encouragement and the best coaching and more serious fitness / strength work. takes a lot more self-motivation to take the hard road.



  • @reprobate said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @rotated said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Read a book where they said top athletes are generally not the most naturally gifted, ones that have to work harder to get to the same level have better habits and work ethic. Probably why some gifted juniors never make it.

    On the other hand thought there is a hockey study which I believe has been replicated in other sports showing kids born in the months immediately after age-grade cut offs (i.e. biggest/oldest in their age grade) are more likely to make rep teams growing up and in turn are more likely to make the pros. It is a distinct advantage.

    yep. not a surprising result at all - make the reps early, get all the encouragement and the best coaching and more serious fitness / strength work. takes a lot more self-motivation to take the hard road.

    That was in Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. Also if you want to become expert at anything they say you need to practice at least 10000 hours



  • @canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    That was in Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. Also if you want to become expert at anything they say you need to practice at least 10000 hours

    the 10,000 hours had been debunked I thought?



  • @nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    That was in Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. Also if you want to become expert at anything they say you need to practice at least 10000 hours

    the 10,000 hours had been debunked I thought?

    Dunno, just regurgitating what I read. I would imagine it's a lot of hours. Of course you need some natural skill as well



  • @ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?

    Tonga 33, Canada 23 in the Pacific Nations Cup doesn't really bode well for them, unless they've acquired some significant reinforcements.



  • Canada is on a 5-game losing streak, including a loss to Leinster. The interest will be Ardron and Olmstead.



  • @Chris-B said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    Canada will be a tougher prospect than Namibia but will they offer more resistance than Italy?

    Tonga 33, Canada 23 in the Pacific Nations Cup doesn't really bode well for them, unless they've acquired some significant reinforcements.

    So Tonga were keeping their powder dry in Hamilton...



  • I think we will put our wings away for now - they will tinker with the midfiled and I think they will change the front row, plus give Reado and Cane a break.
    I'm pretty happy wiht our performance - except for our start, but we have certainly upped the tempo.
    Ithink out of all the coaches, Shag will be the happiest with Schmidt a close second.



  • @Jailbreak7 given Cane didnโ€™t play a full game against the Boks I say he gets a run with Todd against Canada to give Ardie a spell.



  • I'll be interested to see how Olmstead and Ardron go.



  • @Snowy

    I think more important than Rieko will be the pool performances of Moli, Goodhue and Fritzell. They are on the bubble for knockout phases, imho



  • @rotated it is. But counterintuitively, if you are younger and smaller v your peer group (like many kids born late in the year) but manage to stay in the top grade, when you finally hit your growth spurt, youโ€™re more likely to succeed at the top level.

    Lots of factors, but the biggies are mental toughness, being forced to perfect technique to compete and not being reliant on relative speed and size.

    Another issue with that study is that jnr hockey players get very few touches of the puck so the extra ice time first line players get becomes a huge advantage over time. It turns out that as against that oft-quoted study having access to a rink outside of practice/games (in the backyard or down the road) is a bigger predictor than early year birthdate.



  • Back on topic - back in Toronto after my jaunt to Japan and the boys here are desperate for the Maple Leafs to put up a good showing.

    But even with Sir Tedโ€™s help most of the former Canadian test players are not confident. The days of Canada competing by fielding a vicious pack of lumberjacks, rigpigs and autoworkers with some flash if slightly raw backs are over.

    Fact is that Canada has adapted to professionalism slower and worse than any other T2 nation. Some of that is structural but mostly it is that the game here has always been shockingly poorly governed with no vision and bags of provincialism.

    A story I have never been able to confirm but which is perfectly believable (and illustrative) was that in the 90s when the 5 nations looked to expand they tested the waters with Canada before approaching Italy. And Rugby Canada rejected the approach out of hand because they believed it would be too expensive for Canada to participate!

    This whinge of a post is really just to set up what my wish is for this squad: that the Rumballs, Hearns and Sears-Durus and others pick up contracts in top competitions. Unless and until that happens Canada will continue to underperform.



  • @Smuts said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool ๐Ÿ˜Ž:

    @rotated it is. But counterintuitively, if you are younger and smaller v your peer group (like many kids born late in the year) but manage to stay in the top grade, when you finally hit your growth spurt, youโ€™re more likely to succeed at the top level.

    My mate has a theory (in classic Fern style) that a lot of great basketballers grow late. As you say, they need mental toughness and grit and skills to survive, and then get the physical attributes. If you're massive early, unless you're Yao Ming or Shaq, you get lazy and just dominate physically.

    We see this all the time in Rugby; schoolboy superstars used to running around slower and weaker opponents, suddenly finding that doesn't work against good D. Takes time to up--skill, and some never do



  • Been thinking quite a bit about this game and strategy for the AB's from here.

    11 days between the Boks and Canada means lots of time for rest and recuperation but then only a 4 day turn around for Namibia. And then 6 days for Italy.

    IMHO, they need to go with the bulk of the first choice squad for this next game and Italy and the support squad against Namibia.

    So by employing such a strategy, the top AB team gets a rest of 11 days for Canada and then another 10 days before Italy. That my friends is plenty of rest before the knock out stages.

    Clearly Canada from their first showing aren't going to be much of an opposition (sadly) but we need to make sure the combinations get more time together. Much like how the warm-up game against Tonga turned out, this will be a contested training run. So why not give the top team another run together to keep working on the combinations especially in the key areas:
    The dual pivot
    Centre combination

    With that said, I think Ardie needs a rest, he's been a 1 man army throughout the Super Season and for the AB's. Swap in either Frizzel or Todd and things shouldn't be upset too much. But Ardie starts against Italy and then on wards into the knock out rounds.

    The Mo'unga and Barrett dual pivot role, I can only see it getting more effective the longer they play and with this strategy as I've suggested, this gives them two more matches allowing them time to read and work off each other, build the understanding and teamwork.

    After the last few games and especially the Bok's game, the biggest question that remains has to be, what does our centre pairing look like going into the knock out round.

    IMHO, based on form over the whole year, ALB is now our premier 12/13 depending on partner. As far as I am concerned, ALB has to be in the starting line up. So who to partner him?

    As much as it seems almost alien to me, not a huge SBW fan to be honest, I think it has to be either SBW starts, especially against North Hemisphere teams, with Crotty on the bench, or Crotty starts and SBW is on the bench.

    Obviously this leaves Goodhue on the outer and in my honest opinion, whilst he was awesome in his breakout year, the past 12 months he's been rather quiet, solid but not spectacular. I know this opinion won't be well accepted by the cantabrians but oh well.

    As for the back 3, I'm not sold on Reece at all, I think his positional play and habit of rushing in or worse, going for the million 2 one intercept gives me major doubts. I do think that Bridge looks really comfortable, a natural at this level and should be retained. I then think it's a choice of Rieko or Ben from Accounts in place of Reece.

    That said, it's gotta be Rieko right, with Ben on the bench? Or the other way around? Oh, that's right, Ben gives a lot more options on the bench and therefore, Rieko starts and Ben is on the bench. That way we are covered across the board.



  • It was said on the TV news last night that 2 separate AB teams are training as preparation for the Canada and Namibia games. Hansen and co will have mapped out which players are involved in each game. I agree about resting Ardie, Whitelock is another who should be on limited minutes.



  • @RoninWC @Bovidae the 1014 guys reckon they know how te ABs will pick thier team for these matches

    https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6089858714001