All Black Coach - Ian Foster



  • NZR really have been in a rock and a hard place, sure they may have made that bed when the extended Hansens contract, but I cant see how starting this process earlier in the year would have helped.

    Media would have got wind of it, then there would have been talk of distractions, back room deals blah blah, then with our RWC exist in the semi, blame around coaching distractions would have come out.

    Doing it this way, they appear to have missed the boat with 2 potentially top candidates (although you could argue JJ only went to the top of the list due to the RWC, so probably not a genuine prospect prior...?)



  • @Machpants said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @MajorRage said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Bones said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @MajorRage good coach for a couple of years and then downhill?

    Quite possibly.

    I think there is a shit ton of politics to deal with in the Wallabies camp as well. Hence a good coach, won't necessarily make a good Wallabies coach.

    Lots of people (well, Cantabs) thought Deans was a coaching god, but his record with Oz not that diff to Chiek

    Bollocks Deans kept Ozzie at No2, was much more competitive against ABs. The only thing Cheika did better was 15 RWC, but that was with the team someone else had built up and he inspired. He's a grat inspriation coach but shit at actual innovation or coaching at international level. He brought in players that won him the Tahs and Leinster, you can't buy in international players the same way, he never got over that and was unable to really progress individuals or the team.

    56 pct vs 52 pct. yeah that’s a much more competitive team ....



  • @Machpants said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @MajorRage said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Bovidae said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @MajorRage said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Bovidae No idea what your talking about

    Cheika has said numerous times, including during the RWC, that he doesn't spend any time analysing the opposition teams.

    Right. Well, if thats his method, thats his method.

    I'd say that in the RWC semi final, we'd spent too long analysing the opposition team.

    No way. W played to England as any analysis would have pinted out. England, in their last 18 or so test matches, have scored in the first few minutes when they kick off - unless the opposition kicked it out. They lost all those games, that initial, it's like one big set piece from the kick back from the opposition sets the England team up for the rest of the game. Kick it out, break that flow, and your sorted

    Wow - you should be coach!!!



  • @chimoaus said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I know Tony Brown said he would stay with JJ, but he would be excellent with Razor.

    Pretty amazing arrogance by NZR not to have identified say top 5 potential coaches 2 years ago and started to wine and dine them. Let them know the process, that they are genuine contenders.

    Yeah. Gee. Terrible they didn't do that, despite plenty of hints and indications they probably did.



  • I don't think its a great time to be AB coach to be honest.

    I think that is a big factor in these coaches going for other options.

    A captain departing.

    A lack of recent U20 success.

    A seemingly lack of talent in the tight forwards coming through.

    A whole coaching setup/system departing that has been there in some form since 04 (if you were a coach other than Foster going for it).

    The same high as always expectations - expectations that I think are still associated with the success since 04.

    I can see a pretty average 4 year World Cup cycle (by AB standards) coming up for the ABs.



  • @KiwiMurph said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I don't think its a great time to be AB coach to be honest.

    I think that is a big factor in these coaches going for other options.

    A captain departing.

    A lack of recent U20 success.

    A seemingly lack of talent in the tight forwards coming through.

    A whole coaching setup/system departing that has been there in some form since 04 (if you were a coach other than Foster going for it).

    The same high as always expectations - expectations that I think are still associated with the success since 04.

    I can see a pretty average 4 year World Cup cycle (by AB standards) coming up for the ABs.

    1904?



  • @Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I'm shattered that Dave Rennie is going to be coaching the Wallabies. IMO Rennie is the best head coach NZ has produced in the pro-era, and to see him not even progress to interview stage for the vacant AB job is terrible. Apparently the Wallabies have been talking to him for months, which is annoying as we've known Steve Hansen was retiring for ages yet it seems that NZR didn't even start discussions with candidates until after the RWC. What's the point of approaching 26 candidates if all the good ones have already been snapped up?

    Whats the point of approaching 26 candidates full stop



  • @Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I'm shattered that Dave Rennie is going to be coaching the Wallabies. IMO Rennie is the best head coach NZ has produced in the pro-era, and to see him not even progress to interview stage for the vacant AB job is terrible. Apparently the Wallabies have been talking to him for months, which is annoying as we've known Steve Hansen was retiring for ages yet it seems that NZR didn't even start discussions with candidates until after the RWC. What's the point of approaching 26 candidates if all the good ones have already been snapped up?

    Whats the point of approaching 26 candidates full stop

    ??

    What's the point of not?

    If they didn't there would be accusations of not going to market.

    By signalling to a range of coaches that they know meet the pre-requisite if gives these coaches a heads up that the process is starting, they are assessed to have capability that is of interest and that, if they aren't going to apply directly, they could/should start talking around to see if they can fit another candidates team.

    I don't get the hang up on the NZR going to market. What does it matter?



  • @KiwiMurph I think there's some rebuilding to be done, but I don't think we'll fall off a cliff.

    Retallick, Taylor and Laulala are all just 28, so could easily go another RWC cycle. Ofa is 27. Atu Moli just 24. Even Sam Whitelock is only 30, so will be a couple of years younger than Brad Thorn was when he finished when the next RWC comes around.

    We'll probably need to replace Coles and Moody over the next four years - and some young guys will come on.

    More immediate problem will be the loose forwards and one thing I don't like about the continuity of Foster is that there might be a continuation of whatever axe there is to grind with Akira Ioane - or, at least, a perception of that axe still being there for Akira - whereas, I'd like to see him fit, motivated and firing for his chance.



  • @KiwiMurph said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I can see a pretty average 4 year World Cup cycle (by AB standards) coming up for the ABs.

    This decision really should be made with a two year time horizon in mind and a contract to match. While the RWC is a noble goal, given all but one RWCs in the professional era have had a finalist coached by someone who took over mid-cycle it is difficult to see a correlation between forward planning and success. The only exception of course was 2011; where Lievermont was locked out of the French dressing room in the lead up to the final by the players - a potential strategy for the ABs if Foster is appointed on a four year term.

    A lot could change in two years. Obviously Rennie and Joseph are spoken for - but perhaps Gatland free of Lions duties is keen, Schmidt has reacclimatized and done something of note at provincial/Super level. Eddie in England will almost go pear shaped. Robertson has two years more experience.

    Like South Africa with the talent, provincial set up and knowledge/experience in the country we could be at our absolute lowest ebb two years out from the RWC and put it all together.



  • @gt12 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    After today’s news, it’s a two horse race and depends to me entirely on who the assistants are - what’s our speculation about who they might be?

    Foster will have McLeod and ?

    Robertson ? And ?

    Let’s say either has Wayne Smith, then step forward please. That would sway it for me. Also, if either now had Tony Brown (yet to be contracted at Japan and could be a wildcard, although a flipflopper if that happened).

    I’d also be impressed if Razor can bring back O’Gara.

    What are the thoughts?

    Thoughts?

    I have a settled team of the Mariner, Jegga and Nepia.

    Now that Rennie is gone, I plan on presenting a photo of Fozzie and an audio recording of Razor in my powerpoint at the interview - followed by a slide saying, REALLY???

    I'm going to ask for 50 percent more cash than I was planning.

    If another skittle falls, I reckon my team will win a Fern poll! 🙂



  • @Chris-B WTF is @jegga there for, organise breakfast?

    Sheesh, jobs for the boys or what!



  • @taniwharugby "Player liaison!"

    But, you're right! We may need to co-opt Mokey as a selector, to go in with the complete PC hand!

    How many steps ahead of Fozzie now?!! 🙂



  • @booboo said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @chimoaus said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I know Tony Brown said he would stay with JJ, but he would be excellent with Razor.

    Pretty amazing arrogance by NZR not to have identified say top 5 potential coaches 2 years ago and started to wine and dine them. Let them know the process, that they are genuine contenders.

    Yeah. Gee. Terrible they didn't do that, despite plenty of hints and indications they probably did.

    Just going from Rennies quote that OZ have been speaking to him for months whilst the NZR had been pretty quiet.



  • @Chris-B said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @KiwiMurph I think there's some rebuilding to be done, but I don't think we'll fall off a cliff.

    Retallick, Taylor and Laulala are all just 28, so could easily go another RWC cycle. Ofa is 27. Atu Moli just 24. Even Sam Whitelock is only 30, so will be a couple of years younger than Brad Thorn was when he finished when the next RWC comes around.

    We'll probably need to replace Coles and Moody over the next four years - and some young guys will come on.

    More immediate problem will be the loose forwards and one thing I don't like about the continuity of Foster is that there might be a continuation of whatever axe there is to grind with Akira Ioane - or, at least, a perception of that axe still being there for Akira - whereas, I'd like to see him fit, motivated and firing for his chance.

    I think the selectors want that as well. Motivated also means willing to listen to what they have asked him to work on, whether it is diet, workmate or whatever. If he doesn't appear willing to do that then he gets the reaction that he has so far.

    Imagine any other job where you have been identified as having potential for promotion and the boss says 'sharpen up on these things and you are in with a shot' but you continue to do what you have always done without changing much. You still have the same potential and ability but have just shown the boss that you aren't motivated to change to move up.



  • @Crucial I think Akira showed some pretty distinct signs that he had given up this year - especially once he was consigned to Mitre 10 Cup.



  • @Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I'm shattered that Dave Rennie is going to be coaching the Wallabies. IMO Rennie is the best head coach NZ has produced in the pro-era, and to see him not even progress to interview stage for the vacant AB job is terrible. Apparently the Wallabies have been talking to him for months, which is annoying as we've known Steve Hansen was retiring for ages yet it seems that NZR didn't even start discussions with candidates until after the RWC. What's the point of approaching 26 candidates if all the good ones have already been snapped up?

    Whats the point of approaching 26 candidates full stop

    ??

    What's the point of not?

    If they didn't there would be accusations of not going to market.

    By signalling to a range of coaches that they know meet the pre-requisite if gives these coaches a heads up that the process is starting, they are assessed to have capability that is of interest and that, if they aren't going to apply directly, they could/should start talking around to see if they can fit another candidates team.

    I don't get the hang up on the NZR going to market. What does it matter?

    Because it's completely and utterly pointless for one.

    The should have either advertised the job and let the applications come in. Or preferable approached 4-5 max. Or if they have already made up their mind (and it looks like they have) do what the Aussies did. This seems professional. NZR looks a bit amateurish. or deceitful.



  • @MajorRage said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Machpants said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @MajorRage said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Bones said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @MajorRage good coach for a couple of years and then downhill?

    Quite possibly.

    I think there is a shit ton of politics to deal with in the Wallabies camp as well. Hence a good coach, won't necessarily make a good Wallabies coach.

    Lots of people (well, Cantabs) thought Deans was a coaching god, but his record with Oz not that diff to Chiek

    Bollocks Deans kept Ozzie at No2, was much more competitive against ABs. The only thing Cheika did better was 15 RWC, but that was with the team someone else had built up and he inspired. He's a grat inspriation coach but shit at actual innovation or coaching at international level. He brought in players that won him the Tahs and Leinster, you can't buy in international players the same way, he never got over that and was unable to really progress individuals or the team.

    56 pct vs 52 pct. yeah that’s a much more competitive team ....

    Competitive against tier one nations? Deans' Wallabies won more often against Argentina, England, France, Ireland, South Africa and Wales.



  • @Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I'm shattered that Dave Rennie is going to be coaching the Wallabies. IMO Rennie is the best head coach NZ has produced in the pro-era, and to see him not even progress to interview stage for the vacant AB job is terrible. Apparently the Wallabies have been talking to him for months, which is annoying as we've known Steve Hansen was retiring for ages yet it seems that NZR didn't even start discussions with candidates until after the RWC. What's the point of approaching 26 candidates if all the good ones have already been snapped up?

    Whats the point of approaching 26 candidates full stop

    ??

    What's the point of not?

    If they didn't there would be accusations of not going to market.

    By signalling to a range of coaches that they know meet the pre-requisite if gives these coaches a heads up that the process is starting, they are assessed to have capability that is of interest and that, if they aren't going to apply directly, they could/should start talking around to see if they can fit another candidates team.

    I don't get the hang up on the NZR going to market. What does it matter?

    Because it's completely and utterly pointless for one.

    The should have either advertised the job and let the applications come in. Or preferable approached 4-5 max. Or if they have already made up their mind (and it looks like they have) do what the Aussies did. This seems professional. NZR looks a bit amateurish. or deceitful.

    Amateurish to let any Winger donkey on the Internet submit an application?



  • @rotated said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    @KiwiMurph said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:

    I can see a pretty average 4 year World Cup cycle (by AB standards) coming up for the ABs.

    This decision really should be made with a two year time horizon in mind and a contract to match. While the RWC is a noble goal, given all but one RWCs in the professional era have had a finalist coached by someone who took over mid-cycle it is difficult to see a correlation between forward planning and success. The only exception of course was 2011; where Lievermont was locked out of the French dressing room in the lead up to the final by the players - a potential strategy for the ABs if Foster is appointed on a four year term.

    A lot could change in two years. Obviously Rennie and Joseph are spoken for - but perhaps Gatland free of Lions duties is keen, Schmidt has reacclimatized and done something of note at provincial/Super level. Eddie in England will almost go pear shaped. Robertson has two years more experience.

    Like South Africa with the talent, provincial set up and knowledge/experience in the country we could be at our absolute lowest ebb two years out from the RWC and put it all together.

    Really? I mean really?

    Cards on the table: of the two I want Razor.

    But the derangement about Fozzie is astonishing.


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