RWC Final: England v Springboks



  • Four have become 2 and England and South Africa line up in the RWC final this weekend to conclude what goes down as the best tournament in my memory. Not necessarily for the rugby or the results, but for the hosting spirit. Years ago when Japan was awarded hosting rights I put it all down to marketing and optics. How wrong I was proved to be. The passion and especially hospitality from the Japanese to travelling teams and fans has been unmatched in anything I have ever seen. Arigato Japan.

    On to the final. Eddie Jones and John Mitchell were spotted in the crowd at the Springbok v Wales semi final. Taking notes. Frankly, if their notes consisted of one full page, it would be because at least half the page was filled with doodles. This Bok team is not one packed with surprises or clever nuanced tactics. There is no new dry powder keg about to be opened. In fact, Rassie could pretty much announce the Bok 23 for the final today. It would again have a 6-2 bench split. The Springboks only have 2 weapons. A brutal pack, and an equally brutal defense. Match the first, and unpick the second and you can beat the Boks.

    And that is what we have to look forward to. Rassie is a clever innovative coach, but he is a novice compared to the experienced and wily Eddie Jones. And Jones has the resources and coaching nous to deal with the Boks. The English forwards have the personnel to match South Africa, and they have an attacking structure that can get the ball to the edges fast enough to outflank the Bok rush defence. Certainly, on the strength of rugby performances produced by each team in their respective semi-finals, England are definite favourites.

    But South Africans are strange beasts. They really don't know when they are supposed to be beaten. In their semi with Wales they had 40% possession and made double the tackles that Wales had to make. For them taking and causing pain in a defensive effort is more energizing than it would be for any other team. They seem to thrive on it. If England allows it to come down to an arm wrestle, don't count the Boks out just yet.



  • If England lose we can speak about a choke quite frankly.



  • If you like patterns in numbers, here is an interesting fact.

    It took England 16 years of playing RWC's to win one. It has been 16 years since that victory.

    SA took 12 years between their first victory and their second. It has been 12 years since that victory.

    Someone is going to keep their pattern going πŸ˜‰



  • While I stated that I expect the Bok 23 to be pretty much a done deal, there may be one interesting change.
    If Kolbe is back to 100% fit, I wonder what the odds are of seeing him at 15, with Willie le Roux missing out completely?

    Only possible change I would expect.



  • England are heavy favourites after that spectacular Semi Final performance with most punters and pundits.

    Eddie Jones, John Mitchell and co would be wise to be on the lookout in the coming days for a mysterious lady going near their squad's sushi who is known as Suzie.



  • @sparky said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    England are heavy favourites after that spectacular Semi Final performance with most punters and pundits.

    Eddie Jones, John Mitchell and co would be wise to be on the lookout in the coming days for a mysterious lady going near their squad's sushi who is known as Suzie.

    I have no doubt that Suzie has long ago infiltrated their setup. She is THAT good πŸ˜‰



  • I for one can't wait to see how England approach this match.

    This is the double, possible triple, whammy

    WC winners
    Grand slam against the Rugby Championship sides on consecutive outings
    No. 1 in the world

    If England win, they deserve all the accolades.



  • @MiketheSnow yes, real bragging rights up for grabs.
    And they're hot favourites.

    I can't wait for the English tabloid press this week.
    Come Saturday, all England will need to do is pitch up at the stadium to take the title.

    Even the kiwis think so:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116962481/rugby-world-cup-the-person-tasked-with-engraving-the-web-ellis-cup-can-put-englands-name-on-it



  • Lets go Bokke!!!!!!



  • @sparky said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    England are heavy favourites after that spectacular Semi Final performance with most punters and pundits.

    Eddie Jones, John Mitchell and co would be wise to be on the lookout in the coming days for a mysterious lady going near their squad's sushi who is known as Suzie.

    They should be buts its only opened at a 4.5 point head start



  • England should be worried about the Springboks ruining their coronation, especially if it turns out they made a pact.



  • @MiketheSnow whether they can bring that same intensity next week is the key, especially if Eddie has been focussing on the AB match for 4 years! We know he is smart, but he has said that game has been pretty much his focus for 4 years...

    For whatever reason, ABs struggled to do it 2 weeks in a row last 3 RWCs;
    2011 Aus/France
    2015 Fra/SA
    2019 Ire/Eng

    MAybe even a touch of motivation for SA; Eddie was only ever worried about the ABs πŸ˜‰



  • @MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    I for one can't wait to see how England approach this match.

    This is the double, possible triple, whammy

    WC winners
    Grand slam against the Rugby Championship sides on consecutive outings
    No. 1 in the world

    If England win, they deserve all the accolades.

    The Boks are at a huge advantage..all they have to do is run the EngvAB semi on a continuous loop and watch what the POMS will do because they have no other plan but to try to nullify the Bok attack by their smothering defence. Unlike the ABs the Boks will be ready for it...maybe this is were they need to kick it away for territory and the dwarf does his usual box kicks. Cross kicking for the wings will be a risk because there'll be at least three English players there like there was in the AB game...Eddie has shown his hand now so they can only do what they did against us. GO BOKKEEE!!



  • Willi Heinz injured. Ben Spencer called in for England. No Kiwis in the final.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50199022



  • @taniwharugby said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @MiketheSnow whether they can bring that same intensity next week is the key, especially if Eddie has been focussing on the AB match for 4 years! We know he is smart, but he has said that game has been pretty much his focus for 4 years...

    For whatever reason, ABs struggled to do it 2 weeks in a row last 3 RWCs;
    2011 Aus/France
    2015 Fra/SA
    2019 Ire/Eng

    Looking back at 2003, Eddie did a number on your boys in the semi-final and that backed that up pretty good by nearly doing a number on us in the final. Whilst I'm sure the ABs game was the main target, he'll have a plan for the final too. Let's hope it works, 'cos the Boks are looking very hard to break down.



  • @Blackheart said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @MiketheSnow said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    I for one can't wait to see how England approach this match.

    This is the double, possible triple, whammy

    WC winners
    Grand slam against the Rugby Championship sides on consecutive outings
    No. 1 in the world

    If England win, they deserve all the accolades.

    The Boks are at a huge advantage..all they have to do is run the EngvAB semi on a continuous loop and watch what the POMS will do because they have no other plan but to try to nullify the Bok attack by their smothering defence. Unlike the ABs the Boks will be ready for it...maybe this is were they need to kick it away for territory and the dwarf does his usual box kicks. Cross kicking for the wings will be a risk because there'll be at least three English players there like there was in the AB game...Eddie has shown his hand now so they can only do what they did against us. GO BOKKEEE!!

    Or they can play Farrell at 10, Manu at 12, and Slade at 13 and offer a very different plan of attack in the backs.



  • @Catogrande dunno, that match was turned on a controversial TMO call...



  • @taniwharugby Sorry mate, which match?



  • *England have several other injury concerns with Owen Farrell and Jonny May nursing dead legs, while prop Kyle Sinckler has a calf issue.

    Anthony Watson was able to finish the win over the All Blacks but he received regular treatment during the game for an unspecified knock.*



  • @Catogrande 2003...that try in the corner by Mils that wasnt given, then Aus go 100m to score moments later...



  • @taniwharugby said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @Catogrande 2003...that try in the corner by Mils that wasnt given, then Aus go 100m to score moments later...

    For sure, but I don't think you can argue that Eddie had a specific plan for NZ (playing keepy-ball from memory) and that it kept them in the game when few thought they had much of a chance. Similar in the final, we were a much better side than Aus at that time but they played a sly old game come scrum time and negated one of our key strengths over them. How the fuck they got those scrum penalties God only knows.



  • @taniwharugby said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @Catogrande 2003...that try in the corner by Mils that wasnt given, then Aus go 100m to score moments later...

    The late hit on Marshall too, he was one of the few that really looked up for the scrap . Then we got Kelleher out who looked fat and out of shape.



  • @Catogrande I agree, but that game was less so IMO and the game most likely changed in that moment



  • @taniwharugby I didn't bother to read your past post further than "I agree". I now feel vindicated.



  • @Catogrande its the TSF way!



  • @sparky said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    Willi Heinz injured. Ben Spencer called in for England. No Kiwis in the final

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50199022

    What about Mako V?



  • I don’t think England should be favourites at all given the way I think the game will play out. It will basically be last nights match all over again.



  • @ACT-Crusader or Skeenie, is he a shot too?



  • Rassie is no slouch.

    He needs to select Marx and Louw in starting pack and go after English ruck ball. Etzebeth primed to monster Itoje. Then Pollard to take the line on with BIG Boks and De Allandre running off him.

    Could do with Vermeulin having one of his special games.

    I have a hunch that English strategy won't work so well against a team not trying to play expansive rugby.

    Stranger things have happened...



  • @pakman said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    Rassie is no slouch.

    He needs to select Marx and Louw in starting pack and go after English ruck ball. Etzebeth primed to monster Itoje. Then Pollard to take the line on with BIG Boks and De Allandre running off him.

    Could do with Vermeulin having one of his special games.

    I have a hunch that English strategy won't work so well against a team not trying to play expansive rugby.

    Stranger things have happened...

    Koch/Brits to decode English lineout calls...



  • I am well old enough to remember... This feels just like 1995. Well, actually even a bit better.

    In 95, I was delighted the Boks had made it to the finals. But we were such massive underdogs in the final I expected the Boks to come up short, which takes some of the tension out of the week leading up to the game. Downside was we had never won a RWC before, and I was desperate for us to get our name on the trophy.

    Again, the Boks are the clear underdogs in this 2019 final. In many respects, just having made it this far already feels good. If you had asked me 2 seasons ago when the likes of Italy could beat us what a good RWC result for the Boks would be, I would have said getting to and winning a Qtr Final.

    Of course I want us to win the bloody thing. Of course i will be disappointed not to win it. But that disappointment won't be OTT. Given where we have come from fairly recently, I am already seriously chuffed with how this tournament went for us.

    And Rassie and his team can take the credit for that. I just hope that the coaching team that replaces him after the RWC continue the build.



  • @Billy-Webb I can't see your boys as massive underdogs just based on one England performance. You've just won two really tough games on the trot, yes with a limited game plan, but there is more to the Boks than that. Much closer to evens in my book with England maybe shading the favourites tag. Not sure what the bookies think but that's bound to be skewed by a load of bandwagon jumpers frothing over our semi-final performance.



  • Considering how both teams tackle there should be some awesome hits



  • @mariner4life said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    Considering how both teams tackle there should be some awesome hits

    Hopefully no cards!



  • @Billy-Webb I could live with a card on Farrell...



  • @Smuts said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb I could live with a card on Farrell...

    Karma πŸ™‚



  • @Smuts said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb I could live with a card on Farrell...

    Can you get a card for shoving your face into someone's hand?



  • @pakman said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @Smuts said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb I could live with a card on Farrell...

    Can you get a card for shoving your face into someone's hand?

    No.
    But you should get a card (and 10-week suspension) for then acting like a namby-pamby poofballer.



  • @Billy-Webb said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @pakman said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @Smuts said in RWC Final: England v Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb I could live with a card on Farrell...

    Can you get a card for shoving your face into someone's hand?

    No.
    But you should get a card (and 10-week suspension) for then acting like a namby-pamby poofballer.

    Sad fact is Nige wanted to ref final.



  • @pakman I think the refs were instructed to hold back on the cards as much as possible in the knockout games. Only one was handed out if I remember correctly?

    Guess it's either Nigel or one of the Froggies that gets the final.

    Peyper or more likely Barnes get the 3rd/4th game.