England & Eddie



  • So after being thoroughly outplayed by SA last night (phew), a few observations.

    Does his inability to coax a peak performance when required - indeed England clearly played their final in the semi final, almost re-defining the cliche - cast a shadow over Jones' credentials, again? I believe so. Careful what you wish for, Wallabies fans.

    The petulance, immaturity and indignity shown by Itoje and Sinckler in snubbing their losers' medals leaves a sour taste in the mouth and England fans should be really disappointed with this behaviour.

    Are England chokers? Lost finals in 1991, 2007 and now 2019. That's a very, very ordinary record, now levelling France (1987, 1999 and 2011), although England have at least won one. Still, chokers.



  • I look forward to reading more articles about this new English rugby dynasty, Sir Eddie Jones and Sir Owen Farrell.

    Bunch of fluffybunnies.



  • Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....

    Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.

    • 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.
    • 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
    • 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.

    Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.

    Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.

    People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.

    Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.



  • @hydro11 Sinckler would have got destroyed in the scrums.

    I thought I noticed one of England's management taking off his medal immediately and thought it was pretty rude. What did all the rest do?



  • Nothing rude about taking off your medal. If they don't see it as an achievement, they don't see it as an achievement. That's up to them. Being a good loser is about coping the loss on the chin and not blaming others. It doesn't stop you being disappointed in yourself.



  • @hydro11 said in England & Eddie:

    Nothing rude about taking off your medal. If they don't see it as an achievement, they don't see it as an achievement. That's up to them. Being a good loser is about coping the loss on the chin and not blaming others. It doesn't stop you being disappointed in yourself.

    So why would you need to rip off your medal on camera if it doesn't matter? Unless you're trying to prove some point. Seems like being a sore loser to me to have to show petulance.

    I reckon they care heaps about what I think too.



  • @Bones said in England & Eddie:

    @hydro11 said in England & Eddie:

    Nothing rude about taking off your medal. If they don't see it as an achievement, they don't see it as an achievement. That's up to them. Being a good loser is about coping the loss on the chin and not blaming others. It doesn't stop you being disappointed in yourself.

    So why would you need to rip off your medal on camera if it doesn't matter? Unless you're trying to prove some point. Seems like being a sore loser to me to have to show petulance.

    I reckon they care heaps about what I think too.

    Stoked I can carry on not only thinking Itoje is a massive douche and now I have better evidence than his idiot clapping



  • @jegga I don't know if you saw, but before the game he was wearing a jacket with the English rose.

    IT WAS GOLD



  • @Bones said in England & Eddie:

    @jegga I don't know if you saw, but before the game he was wearing a jacket with the English rose.

    IT WAS GOLD

    The rose on most of their training jackets was gold. I saw it on tv during the tourney more than once



  • Blimey. Talk about looking for things to get upset about.

    I had doubts over England's ability to win a world cup as I honestly thought they were too big - I thought going Argentina, France, QF, SF, F would be too much for them. Hence, when the France game was cancelled, I really thought it was theirs. The showing vs NZ was them at their absolute peak.

    But it all crashed down in the final. But it wasn't just the forwards, I thought the backline was woeful. They couldn't seem to pass to each other and the SA rush defence just put them under all sorts of pressure and they couldn't cope.

    Tuilagi barely saw the ball, and the final was much worse off because of it.

    Eddie prepared them for the NZ game, not to win the world cup. I think he didn't really realise it. He was so obsessed with us, had mentioned us so many times. He barely spoke about SA. And hence, they got completely ambushed.

    He's still a great coach and has achieved great things with his squad. But it was one step too far today.



  • @canefan said in England & Eddie:

    @Bones said in England & Eddie:

    @jegga I don't know if you saw, but before the game he was wearing a jacket with the English rose.

    IT WAS GOLD

    The rose on most of their training jackets was gold. I saw it on tv during the tourney more than once

    Haha thanks Cotton



  • Very good piece by Jonathan Liew;

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/england-vs-south-africa-rugby-world-cup-2019-final-score-jonathan-liew-a9182186.html

    For some reason our old friend the Walrus has lost his sh*t with him:



  • @hydro11 said in England & Eddie:

    Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....

    Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.

    *** 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.

    • 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
    • 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.
      **
      Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.

    Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.

    People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.

    Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.

    I got some grief here for pointing out Jake White wasn't much of a coach and the boks weren't much of a team in 2007 and were easily the worst rwc winners ever . The easy paths they've had to every rwc win wouldn't be much of an issue if there wasn't a belief amongst bok fans that the first two rwcs didn't count because they weren't there.



  • @sparky I assume the walrus would have to attend and watch rugby to see anyone else there.



  • @sparky said in England & Eddie:

    Very good piece by Jonathan Liew;

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/england-vs-south-africa-rugby-world-cup-2019-final-score-jonathan-liew-a9182186.html

    For some reason our old friend the Walrus has lost his sh*t with him:

    Jones has completely lost the plot in this WC.

    Lies about Ireland and gets called out on it - no response
    Has claimed Hansen disparaged Gatland in his interview ... although nobody else has commented on this, and when asked how he's all quiet
    And attacking other journalists who don't agree with him.



  • @MajorRage said in England & Eddie:

    Eddie prepared them for the NZ game, not to win the world cup. I think he didn't really realise it. He was so obsessed with us, had mentioned us so many times.

    Bang on...I said as much in another thread, even Gats mentioned last week was their final.

    Eddie has always been good at devising a plan, and I expect all his talk of planning to beat NZ was good fuel for the Boks as well.

    That's not to detract from how good they were last week, but he was geared towards beating 1 team, he took his eye off the prize.



  • @taniwharugby said in England & Eddie:

    @MajorRage said in England & Eddie:

    Eddie prepared them for the NZ game, not to win the world cup. I think he didn't really realise it. He was so obsessed with us, had mentioned us so many times.

    Bang on...I said as much in another thread, even Gats mentioned last week was their final.

    Eddie has always been good at devising a plan, and I expect all his talk of planning to beat NZ was good fuel for the Boks as well.

    That's not to detract from how good they were last week, but he was geared towards beating 1 team, he took his eye off the prize.

    TBF, he said last week that the win against us would be for nothing if they lost this game.



  • @hydro11 said in England & Eddie:

    Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....

    Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.

    • 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.
    • 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
    • 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.

    Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.

    Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.

    People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.

    Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.

    Not sure about this and commented on it earlier.

    England's schedule was tough on paper - and I wrote before the tournament started that England wouldn't win the WC because they had Argentina, France, Wales/Australia, SA/NZ, SA/NZ on the trot - but the reality was very different.

    They comfortably beat a 14-man Argentina; the France match was cancelled; and they comfortably beat an average Australia side who'd already lost to Wales.

    They produced one of the performances of the decade by dismantling NZ in the SF but really that was their only serious challenge prior to the Final.

    Conversely SA had to play NZ first up; then a very good Japanese side who were unbeaten with wins over Ireland and Scotland, in the QF; then Wales who were also unbeaten, in the SF.

    For me, SA had the harder path - admittedly losing to NZ didn't derail their progress.

    Eddie has done wonders with England but he made some fatal flaws this tournament and in the years leading up to it.

    1. Sinckler.
      Great tournament. But if his best back up is Dan Coles then you're always going to struggle if Sinckler gets a YC or an early injury.

    2. Youngs
      Great going forward. Shithouse going backwards. I would have yanked him at half-time. Spencer couldn't have been any worse.

    3. Daly
      Great athlete, average full-back. Exposed badly today. Willie looked like Cullen in comparison.

    4. May
      He was carrying an injury. Barrett caught him ffs. No way Barrett was catching Watson.

    5. Slade
      Not match fit and made significant mistakes in the games he played in

    6. Ford
      This was not the match to start Ford

    7. No nasty fluffybunny in the forwards
      England have great, technical athletes in all positions but no real hard bastard in the Martin Johnson mould who can bollock them.
      Lawes was stuffed twice by Kolbe ffs

    How's that for starters?



  • @sparky said in England & Eddie:

    Very good piece by Jonathan Liew;

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/england-vs-south-africa-rugby-world-cup-2019-final-score-jonathan-liew-a9182186.html

    For some reason our old friend the Walrus has lost his sh*t with him:

    Doesn't look like the article Jones was referring to in that tweet



  • Someone may come up with some stats to show im wrong ,

    But I think Eddie will be remembered more as a guy capable of masterminding a one off massive win more than anything else , and that in itself still deserves some respect , but losing 2 finals , he will have the bridesmaid tag now, unless he can win one .

    Allblacks 2003, Boks, 2015 , Allblacks 2019 are his one off moments of WC glory



  • @kiwiinmelb said in England & Eddie:

    Someone may come up with some stats to show im wrong ,

    But I think Eddie will be remembered more as a guy capable of masterminding a one off massive win more than anything else , and that in itself still deserves some respect , but losing 2 finals , he will have the bridesmaid tag now, unless he can win one .

    Allblacks 2003, Boks, 2015 , Allblacks 2019 are his one off moments of WC glory

    I'll give him a nod for being part of the Boks' 2007 effort. But as an assistant.



  • @MiketheSnow to be fair to Daly he didn't get as many chances as le Roux (who made me laugh about him being the saffa Jordie in the first few minutes).



  • @Bones said in England & Eddie:

    @MiketheSnow to be fair to Daly he didn't get as many chances as le Roux (who made me laugh about him being the saffa Jordie in the first few minutes).

    Thank christ. Everything he touched turned to shit.



  • @booboo said in England & Eddie:

    @sparky said in England & Eddie:

    Very good piece by Jonathan Liew;

    https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/england-vs-south-africa-rugby-world-cup-2019-final-score-jonathan-liew-a9182186.html

    For some reason our old friend the Walrus has lost his sh*t with him:

    Doesn't look like the article Jones was referring to in that tweet

    I think it was an interview Lies did with Sean Fitzpatrick that annoyed Jones.



  • @MiketheSnow said in England & Eddie:

    @hydro11 said in England & Eddie:

    Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....

    Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.

    • 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.
    • 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
    • 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.

    Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.

    Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.

    People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.

    Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.

    Not sure about this and commented on it earlier.

    England's schedule was tough on paper - and I wrote before the tournament started that England wouldn't win the WC because they had Argentina, France, Wales/Australia, SA/NZ, SA/NZ on the trot - but the reality was very different.

    They comfortably beat a 14-man Argentina; the France match was cancelled; and they comfortably beat an average Australia side who'd already lost to Wales.

    They produced one of the performances of the decade by dismantling NZ in the SF but really that was their only serious challenge prior to the Final.

    Conversely SA had to play NZ first up; then a very good Japanese side who were unbeaten with wins over Ireland and Scotland, in the QF; then Wales who were also unbeaten, in the SF.

    For me, SA had the harder path - admittedly losing to NZ didn't derail their progress.

    Eddie has done wonders with England but he made some fatal flaws this tournament and in the years leading up to it.

    1. Sinckler.
      Great tournament. But if his best back up is Dan Coles then you're always going to struggle if Sinckler gets a YC or an early injury.

    2. Youngs
      Great going forward. Shithouse going backwards. I would have yanked him at half-time. Spencer couldn't have been any worse.

    3. Daly
      Great athlete, average full-back. Exposed badly today. Willie looked like Cullen in comparison.

    4. May
      He was carrying an injury. Barrett caught him ffs. No way Barrett was catching Watson.

    5. Slade
      Not match fit and made significant mistakes in the games he played in

    6. Ford
      This was not the match to start Ford

    7. No nasty fluffybunny in the forwards
      England have great, technical athletes in all positions but no real hard bastard in the Martin Johnson mould who can bollock them.
      Lawes was stuffed twice by Kolbe ffs

    How's that for starters?

    Strongly disagree with this. Pool play is a bit of an irrelevancy unless you have a tough pool. The New Zealand vs South Africa game happened a long time ago and both teams were going to beat Wales. Japan had had two very good victories but were unlikely to have the physicality to beat South Africa in that game. Japan had already played their final. Wales may have been unbeaten but they were exceptionally poor in the semi final and couldn't threaten the South African line.



  • @hydro11 said in England & Eddie:

    @MiketheSnow said in England & Eddie:

    @hydro11 said in England & Eddie:

    Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....

    Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.

    • 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.
    • 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
    • 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.

    Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.

    Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.

    People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.

    Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.

    Not sure about this and commented on it earlier.

    England's schedule was tough on paper - and I wrote before the tournament started that England wouldn't win the WC because they had Argentina, France, Wales/Australia, SA/NZ, SA/NZ on the trot - but the reality was very different.

    They comfortably beat a 14-man Argentina; the France match was cancelled; and they comfortably beat an average Australia side who'd already lost to Wales.

    They produced one of the performances of the decade by dismantling NZ in the SF but really that was their only serious challenge prior to the Final.

    Conversely SA had to play NZ first up; then a very good Japanese side who were unbeaten with wins over Ireland and Scotland, in the QF; then Wales who were also unbeaten, in the SF.

    For me, SA had the harder path - admittedly losing to NZ didn't derail their progress.

    Eddie has done wonders with England but he made some fatal flaws this tournament and in the years leading up to it.

    1. Sinckler.
      Great tournament. But if his best back up is Dan Coles then you're always going to struggle if Sinckler gets a YC or an early injury.

    2. Youngs
      Great going forward. Shithouse going backwards. I would have yanked him at half-time. Spencer couldn't have been any worse.

    3. Daly
      Great athlete, average full-back. Exposed badly today. Willie looked like Cullen in comparison.

    4. May
      He was carrying an injury. Barrett caught him ffs. No way Barrett was catching Watson.

    5. Slade
      Not match fit and made significant mistakes in the games he played in

    6. Ford
      This was not the match to start Ford

    7. No nasty fluffybunny in the forwards
      England have great, technical athletes in all positions but no real hard bastard in the Martin Johnson mould who can bollock them.
      Lawes was stuffed twice by Kolbe ffs

    How's that for starters?

    Strongly disagree with this. Pool play is a bit of an irrelevancy unless you have a tough pool. The New Zealand vs South Africa game happened a long time ago and both teams were going to beat Wales. Japan had had two very good victories but were unlikely to have the physicality to beat South Africa in that game. Japan had already played their final. Wales may have been unbeaten but they were exceptionally poor in the semi final and couldn't threaten the South African line.

    Not for the first time today I've questioned whether posters watched the SA v Wales SF.

    We scored a try. A good one. England couldn't today, despite 20 odd stabs at it in one passage of play.

    It was 16-16 going in to the last 10 minutes.

    We had two opportunities to take the lead and blew both.

    SA had one chance in the last 5 minutes and took it.

    So if we were exceptionally poor, then SA were just poor.

    SA didn't do much different tonight, so England lost to a poor team.

    Not buying it.



  • you do have to wonder if that cancelled round had an impact on England this week and NZ last week.

    We see the bye round in super rugby is rarely a good thing.

    Looking at all potential last rounds...

    NZ - Ire-Eng-SA
    SA - Japan-Wales-Eng
    Wales - France-SA-Eng
    Eng - Aus-NZ-SA

    SA slightly easier on paper with Japan, but you could argue NZ/Eng had the easier quarters when you look at scores alone.



  • @MiketheSnow harder path my ass.



  • @Bones im guessing you played sport to a low level.



  • @geebee said in England & Eddie:

    @MiketheSnow harder path my ass.

    Please enlighten us



  • @geebee said in England & Eddie:

    @Bones im guessing you played sport to a low level.

    Oh the very lowest, but no I don't think we know each other.



  • @MiketheSnow they beat Japan and Wales who both wouldn't beat any NZ super franchises.



  • @geebee said in England & Eddie:

    @MiketheSnow they beat Japan and Wales who both wouldn't beat any NZ super franchises.

    👏👏👏

    God help Ireland, Scotland, Australia, France, Samoa and Fiji then.



  • @hydro11 said in England & Eddie:

    Is this a troll post? No English here to troll....

    Last night showed how tough it is to win a World Cup. If you look at the three tournaments South Africa have won, they haven't been very good in any of them.

    • 1995 they beat Samoa, France and New Zealand.
    • 2007 it was Fiji, Argentina and France.
    • 2019 it was Japan, Wales and England.

    Relatively speaking those are very easy runs. In the two most recent cups we won we had off performances in the knock outs. 2011, it was the final. 2015, it was the semi. We could have lost either game.

    Before this game people clearly discounted the effect that England's tougher run had had. It's exceptionally tough to win a World Cup having had three tough knock out games. In 2015, we beat Australia in the final who had a much easier draw. However, Australia were much worse than us. England and South Africa are generally closely matched so the tough run was always going to be a factor.

    People also discounted how South Africa were a much different team to us. We didn't try to take England on up front; South Africa were always going to. If Sinckler doesn't get injured, England could have won. Maybe if the first couple of minutes of how semi had happened differently, we could have won as well.

    Eddie Jones is a great coach who has achieved great things with England over the last four years. I would still have him as coach of the year.

    Stephen Jones doesn't read my shit!? 😞



  • @Bones said in England & Eddie:

    @sparky I assume the walrus would have to attend and watch rugby to see anyone else there.

    Having watched a lot of games the Walrus writes his drivel about, I have doubts he even watches any himself

    The clown boldly stated England were robbed when they lost to us in November, quoting rules which were 5 years out of date FFS.



  • Eddie Jones? My two cents.

    Been telling people for a while I've had a suspicion he inherited a promising team Lancaster had put together and built on it, but would crash at the final hurdle as he has done in the past. He was uber-successful for a couple of years but the wheels started coming off about 18 months ago and I always thought England would struggle in tournaments like the RWC as they have in the last 2 6N's.

    They were good against a woeful Oz and beat us well in the SF, but they were really, really poor today. That performance was, at times, embarrassing for an English supporter. Probably the poorest I've seen from a side in a RWC Final - during the game and after the whistle.

    Seems to me a lot of the players have a serious attitude problem - if the players are a reflection of the coach, then he needs to take some of the blame



  • @Bones said in England & Eddie:

    @hydro11 Sinckler would have got destroyed in the scrums.

    But given them a heap more around the field. Cole is a serial offender - who got away with his offside at every ruck and maul last night - and not a ball runner like Sinckler.

    The kid might be a tool, but can play.

    @Bones said in England & Eddie:

    So why would you need to rip off your medal on camera if it doesn't matter? Unless you're trying to prove some point. Seems like being a sore loser to me to have to show petulance.

    Who says they even knew - or gave 2 knobs of goat shit - whether a camera was on them.

    As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.

    And you're well within your rights to think they're arrogant douchecopters, but just remember: look too long into the abyss, and you'll find it starts looking back into you 🙂



  • @NTA Sinckler is a douche, so whatever accusations aimed at him, in my eyes are true!



  • I've no idea what the terms of Eddie's contract are - how long he has left - but when he does leave it could be the perfect time to give Lancaster a ring.

    As time goes on I read and hear more and more of what a solid foundation Lancaster laid down.

    And if not him, someone like him.

    England needs a hardnosed English coach.



  • @NTA said in England & Eddie:

    As I said on the match thread: they're young men, they're high achievers who wanted to win, and they're hurting.

    They're professionals who are representing England Rugby FFS. Their behaviour left a sour taste and gave the impression of bad losers.

    That they didn't realize this or didn't give s stuff says a lot for the team's attitude and that of the management team - a fish rots from the head down as the Chinese say.


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