Student Loans



  • The ferald plumbing the depths again with that catchy headline



  • @canefan she is getting savaged on social media.



  • @taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @canefan she is getting savaged on social media.

    excellent.jpg



  • @taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @canefan she is getting savaged on social media.

    Her name is out there?

    She sounds like an entitled moron . Blocked Ird five years ago and won’t pay a cent back until they let her decide how much she pays back .



  • @jegga well, the article on Social media and people are ripping into her....read a fair few and not one person had sympathy



  • @taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @jegga well, the article on Social media and people are ripping into her....read a fair few and not one person had sympathy

    I wonder what the degree is she got for her $100000?



  • @jegga said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @jegga well, the article on Social media and people are ripping into her....read a fair few and not one person had sympathy

    I wonder what the degree is she got for her $100000?

    Did the article say what her original loan was? It may have been way less than that when she took it out but if she's been accumulating interest for 10 years it will tick up pretty quickly I presume.



  • No defending her, but there is a generation of kids that got pretty shafted on fees and loans. We went from free tertiary study to charging thousands for fees and materials, with living costs heaped on top. And the interest rates were out of control, the same as anyone taking out an unsecured loan.

    I finished uni in 1998 with a loan of $30k and change. Yeah I spent plenty of money on booze and non-uni stuff, but I also had a steady stream of jobs all the way through.

    I did the overseas travel thing almost straight after uni, making almost no money, working shitty jobs, but having a blast. And before I knew it, my loan balance was $73k

    I spent years paying the minimum and watching the interest build at double digit % rates. Luckily I was in the position to repay it in full a while back, but I can definitely see cases where people didn't get to that point. A few different career choices, and it would have been a crippling handicap.

    It's probably too far out of hand now, but some interest rate relief for those that got stung with years of 10-12% interest (this was NOT the 80's) would have made a huge different to many people I suspect.



  • @voodoo You were same generation as me, compounding interest from the day we took out the loan. The wrong f-ing 5 year period.



  • @Nepia yep. It's hard to whine too much cos we knew the deal from the outset, but compared to other folk it was a raw deal!

    Worth every minute of fun I had though!



  • @Nepia said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @voodoo You were same generation as me, compounding interest from the day we took out the loan. The wrong f-ing 5 year period.

    yup. I still have one, and it's still big, despite me making faithful payments every 6 months since i moved over here.

    The interest is a killer. I have considered drawing against my house to pay it out, because i get charged less on a home loan



  • It's interest-free if you stay in NZ isn't it? There are a small minority who go overseas with no intention of paying back their loan, or contacting IRD, so you can understand the reason for having this rule. I had a small loan for post-grad studies which I paid back promptly while working in the US.



  • @voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @Nepia yep. It's hard to whine too much cos we knew the deal from the outset, but compared to other folk it was a raw deal!

    Worth every minute of fun I had though!

    I don't think we really knew the deal from the outset though back then as it was so early ... peeps can hate on Labour but they certainly made it easier for students to take out AND repay student loans.

    @Bovidae said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    It's interest-free if you stay in NZ isn't it? There are a small minority who go overseas with no intention of paying back their loan, or contacting IRD, so you can understand the reason for having this rule. I had a small loan for post-grad studies which I paid back promptly while working in the US.

    Yep, interest free in NZ, but not sure why they don't allow an interest write-off for people who pay above the minimum from overseas, especially if the NZ job market has not been able to provide them with employment.

    @mariner4life Probably a worthwhile thing to do if the wife is ok with that?



  • I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none. If you're concerned about overseas defaulters, then toughen up on penalties for non-payment of principal (financial or other penalties). No need to also sting them with crazy interest, you're just ensuring there is a generation nof people who will never come home



  • @Nepia probably right, can't say I though too hard about future repayments while I was at Uni!



  • I'd just like to point out that: yes I did enjoy free tertiary education and yes, I also wasted it spending all my time drinking and on other excesses, I did get arrested and convicted fighting for no fees on behalf of future generations πŸ˜‡

    No need to thank me.

    I do think there is a generation that got seriously shafted on fees. I also think comparisons across generations aren't valid because the whole landscape changed significantly.



  • @voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @Nepia probably right, can't say I though too hard about future repayments while I was at Uni!

    I bloody did. Was the first or second year of student loans, came out with a farking telephone number. Really drove life choices - went overseas, but invested in my career working in the UK. Back then you had to pay back 1/15 a year, PLUSinterest that accrued. Not fun at all.

    That said, the people getting arrested are those who refuse to engage with IRD at all. For years. You make your bed, you lie in it - I have massive sympathy for loan holders, but as someone said above - you know what you're signing up for.

    I did contemplate getting married for the studenta llowance in my first year at uni. My mum would have killed me though, and I'm still not sure it wouldn't have been a good idea ...



  • @nzzp said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    you know what you're signing up for.

    While I don't disagree that we should all have known what we were signing up for I think financial literacy was way lower back then (compared with the current lot) and lots of us really didn't grasp the consequences.



  • Absolutely zero sympathy for people who run and actively hide from student loans.

    I also accrued 8% interest from day one. The following year the rate was reduced by a whole 1%...



  • @dogmeat said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    I'd just like to point out that: yes I did enjoy free tertiary education and yes, I also wasted it spending all my time drinking and on other excesses, I did get arrested and convicted fighting for no fees on behalf of future generations πŸ˜‡

    No need to thank me.

    I do think there is a generation that got seriously shafted on fees. I also think comparisons across generations aren't valid because the whole landscape changed significantly.

    Its created a huge debt bubble in the states and the argument it's not far away from being something that starts to hold their economy back is getting traction there.
    This guy is a former Trump offical and his idea of making it fair for people who have already paid back their loans seems decent

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/30/ex-trump-official-who-wants-student-debt-canceled-on-fixing-loan-system.html



  • @voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none. If you're concerned about overseas defaulters, then toughen up on penalties for non-payment of principal (financial or other penalties). No need to also sting them with crazy interest, you're just ensuring there is a generation nof people who will never come home

    I agree. It doesnt matter where a person goes, as long as the scheme incentivizes loan holders to repay as quickly and as regularly as they can. And severely punishes those who run and hide



  • I had a 42k student loan when I graduated in 2000. 13k of that was interest, that 8% compounding from drawdown, I didn't get any kind of assistance cos my parents were too 'rich'. Year after I graduated, I went overseas and taught English, sending money home each month to pay it off. It was a shit job for a shit company but I cleared 26k of it, then the rest via NZ jobs the regular way out of my pay.

    Have ZERO fucking sympathy for those who skip away and pay nothing. They are entitled assholes now having a whinge because they can't come home? Fuck off. Don't pay your debts, that's what happens. A student loan is a LOAN. Everyone else is chipping away at it, and nowadays the terms are much better than the 90s.



  • @voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none.

    incentive to keep allegedly "well educated" people IN NZ so it benefits our economy?

    What might be better, is to maybe allow it interest free for say 5 years post-graduation, but if you leave NZ, after that 5 years, you start getting charged interest?

    I never went to Uni and have not had a Student Loan...but have mates who have, and the ones that went overseas dutifully paid thier student loans off.



  • @taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none.

    incentive to keep allegedly "well educated" people IN NZ so it benefits our economy?

    What might be better, is to maybe allow it interest free for say 5 years post-graduation, but if you leave NZ, after that 5 years, you start getting charged interest?

    I never went to Uni and have not had a Student Loan...but have mates who have, and the ones that went overseas dutifully paid thier student loans off.

    Funny, broadsheets like the Ferald have little interest in reporting about all of the law abiding folks that pay off their loans



  • @taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @voodoo said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    I see no justification for overseas based people to pay crippling interest whilst people in NZ pay none.

    incentive to keep allegedly "well educated" people IN NZ so it benefits our economy?

    What might be better, is to maybe allow it interest free for say 5 years post-graduation, but if you leave NZ, after that 5 years, you start getting charged interest?

    I never went to Uni and have not had a Student Loan...but have mates who have, and the ones that went overseas dutifully paid thier student loans off.

    I don't like the whole "try to handcuff people to NZ" approach. The benefits of travelling, of working abroad, of being around different cultures, if hate to see people choose not to do that because of an interest rate differential on their student loan.



  • The Ferald seems to love describing average stuff as "hilarious" in at least one headline or intro a day.



  • @voodoo guess it's a matter of perspective...you see it as handcuffing people to NZ, I see it as a benefit of staying/returning to NZ.



  • Literally no one is saying don't travel or work abroad or immerse yourself in different cultures. They are saying hey, if you're going to go, sort it with the IRD first and meet your legal obligations. Not fucking hard or draconian.

    It is in no way fair that the NZ govt stumps up for the education, then other govts get the benefit of the taxes and knowledge. Loans must be repaid. End of.



  • @taniwharugby @Mokey You're both misunderstanding my point. The "handcuffing" point is entirely in relation to charging people who who choose to work overseas extortionate interest for that period, while allowing those who remain in NZ to benefit from zero rates.

    That's a straight financial penalty for choosing to work overseas, and in my view, very bad policy.



  • @voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?



  • @Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?

    because we are awesome



  • @Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?

    from 2005
    Why are you keeping interest for students when they go overseas?
    We want to encourage as many graduates as possible to stay in New Zealand. If
    graduates are working here and making repayments on their loans, it is in our
    interest to reward that.

    How will you ensure that graduates who are overseas will pay back their
    loans?

    There will be financial penalties for people who go overseas and do not make
    payments. We are offering an amnesty on penalties to graduates who return to
    NZ in 2006 or who enter into acceptable payment arrangements with IRD for
    repayment.

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/sites/default/files/Student support information.pdf



  • @voodoo not mis-understanding it, you see it as handcuffing, I see it as a benefit to staying/returning in/to NZ.

    Some of those who left NZ, CHOSE to cease or never make payments, and as such, rightly have penalties on thier interest payments...

    In NZ we are screaming out for Nurses, teachers etc, plenty of these qualified people are no longer in NZ, they left for higher wages, I am sure some of these have chosen to ignore paying off thier student loans...I always think back to when my kids were born and my experience with the people at the hospital; I would have said at least half of the people we dealt with (Dr, Nurses, anesthetist, admin staff etc) were foreigners, over half of these were British...met a number of teachers, but probably lower % who are also foreigners...so our qualified people buggar off for money, have to assume these ones come to NZ for lifestyle.

    As I said above, maybe give a period of garanteed interest free period, regardless of where you are, as long as you have made an arrangement to start paying back...

    @mariner4life you are an exception!



  • @Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?

    I guess it comes down to whether the aim is to recoup the loan in the fastest amount of time, if they want to do that then making it easier for overseas based borrowers to pay it back is going to contribute to that.

    Also, an alternate scenario is this, a mate of mine worked in NZ for 10 years after uni and paid his loan back ... he hasn't lived in NZ for 10 years now and will likely never move back. However, someone who heads overseas for 10 years to earn some cash, pays off their loan and interest, and then returns to NZ for the rest of their life is going to contribute more than my mate yet they "paid" more for their education than this bloke.

    No one is saying to give overseas based loan holders a pass, just make it easier for them to pay back the money in the fastest time possible. The system is not currently geared towards that.



  • @taniwharugby said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @voodoo not mis-understanding it, you see it as handcuffing, I see it as a benefit to staying/returning in/to NZ.

    Some of those who left NZ, CHOSE to cease or never make payments, and as such, rightly have penalties on thier interest payments...

    In NZ we are screaming out for Nurses, teachers etc, plenty of these qualified people are no longer in NZ, they left for higher wages, I am sure some of these have chosen to ignore paying off thier student loans...I always think back to when my kids were born and my experience with the people at the hospital; I would have said at least half of the people we dealt with (Dr, Nurses, anesthetist, admin staff etc) were foreigners, over half of these were British...met a number of teachers, but probably lower % who are also foreigners...so our qualified people buggar off for money, have to assume these ones come to NZ for lifestyle.

    @mariner4life you are an exception!

    i am exceptional. thank you

    it's not that easy though is it. Not everyone that leaves does it for mercenary reasons. Some leave for a change in lifestyle. They then build new lives, and then suddenly they have too many roots down to just come back to NZ.

    I can absolutely see @Mokey s point, even if she probably said it a tad harsher than i would. However, as with most things, it's not exactly black and white.

    My point is more the interest rates on student loans have always been too high, and not to market. Also a 4 year degree is pretty fucking expensive when your parents make too much to allow you to get an allowance, but don't make enough to actually pay for any of your schooling/living.



  • @Mokey said in Alternative needed from the absolute crap of stuff.co.nz:

    @voodoo Your point is stupid. Those who remain in NZ are contributing to the government and economy via taxes (PAYE, GST etc) those who leave contribute nothing. Why should they get the same benefit?

    My point is stupid? Nice argument.

    You realise that those that stay are also consuming right? That's why they pay tax?

    Why on earth should somebody pay a PENALTY to work overseas? That's so small-minded, I'm just staggered.

    What would you say to a hypothetical where a 40yr old professional couple with 2 kids get an opportunity to work in Singapore for 2 years. They'd love to go, but they really can't make the financials work because the government has a policy that your mortgage rate goes up by 8 full % points if you move.

    Yeah that sounds fair. Explain to me why it's different?

    I am all for proper penalties for those who decide not to pay their loans back. But charging someone a penalty for choosing to live overseas WHILST PAYING BACK THEIR LOAN is just daft and backwards.

    We live in a mobile society, people don't want to be stuck in a certain country or city or environment. These sorts of attempts to force them just make no sense.



  • @taniwharugby absolutely those foreigners would be here for lifestyle, as are those kiwis that do the same overseas in Britain and elsewhere. Why should either cohort be penalised?

    As I said, I'm all for cracking down on non-payers, whether in NZ or offshore. Happy for ratcheting interest, penalties, travel restrictions etc whatever the law allows for defaulting borrowers of the government.



  • @voodoo said in Student Loans:

    Why on earth should somebody pay a PENALTY to work overseas? That's so small-minded, I'm just staggered.

    At the time, Labour wanted graduates to stay in NZ. Presumably it's economic activity they want - but the only-in-NZ-no-interest was there from the start.

    Personally, I'd have a happy medium of lower interest for student loans, and leave the rest alone. Something like 2-3% makes a massive difference to the cost, incentivises payback, but isn't as crippling as the 7-10% that floated about for a few years.



  • @nzzp Yeah I get the intention. But I think it's really misguided in the modern world.

    I'd also be fine with a consistent, low interest rate for all borrowers . And consistent, high penalties for those who disregard their obligations.



  • @mariner4life it's IRD, they always make you pay more.

    I wasnt suggesting people did leave for mercenary reasons...just saying if someone chooses to leave without making any arrangements to start paying thier debt, fuck em!

    I have an older son who I have not been with his mother since he was 6 months old, when I left on my OE I set up a private arrangement with her to carry on making payments for child support, otherwise when I came home, I'd have been smashed with a huge bill...appreciate this is only slightly relevant, but I knew if I chose to do nothing, I'd have had a big bill when I came back, and to be naive enough to think who cares, I'll never come back...

    @voodoo I went to the UK to make some coin as well (I met my wife there, so didnt make as much, but oh well) saved enough to have almost 50% deposit on a house...but yes, you go for the experience, but people do go to make money too.

    I have no issues with them providing better options for those leaving NZ, but I think offering the 'best' (0% interest) option to those staying is definitely the way to go.


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