Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
If that stance was to come out publicly, it would be extraordinary. They're basically saying, that despite seeing no health risk (as evidenced by allowing NZers to come to Oz quarantine-free), they are prepared to lock in their citizens from travelling to this safe zone,
for purely economic reasons?That is totally fucked up
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life That's interesting. Can't see it happening before Q3 at earliest. Look at my tipping results and it'll show what a prediction sage I am....
So we are saying Mariner's intel is probably more reliable?
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life That's interesting. Can't see it happening before Q3 at earliest. Look at my tipping results and it'll show what a prediction sage I am....
So we are saying Mariner's intel is probably more reliable?
dude, i was told something by a politician, what possible reason could you have to doubt it...
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
If that stance was to come out publicly, it would be extraordinary. They're basically saying, that despite seeing no health risk (as evidenced by allowing NZers to come to Oz quarantine-free), they are prepared to lock in their citizens from travelling to this safe zone,
for purely economic reasons?That is totally fucked up
also, when you think about it, it involves the Aus Government saying to the NZ gov't "yep, kiwis can come here. But can you guys keep your end quarantined though? It'll be better for both of us economically. Sure, we will be able to take the high road and show our border is open, but you guys can afford the hit..."
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
If that stance was to come out publicly, it would be extraordinary. They're basically saying, that despite seeing no health risk (as evidenced by allowing NZers to come to Oz quarantine-free), they are prepared to lock in their citizens from travelling to this safe zone,
for purely economic reasons?That is totally fucked up
also, when you think about it, it involves the Aus Government saying to the NZ gov't "yep, kiwis can come here. But can you guys keep your end quarantined though? It'll be better for both of us economically. Sure, we will be able to take the high road and show our border is open, but you guys can afford the hit..."
It's fucking outrageous
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What I was told was from a senior advisor to the govt and reflects his interpretation of what he has been told by govt figures about what they think Aussies true position is.
Obviously Aussie aren't going to acknowledge it, but I would give it some credence. It looks very familiar to our own position re places like the Cooks. Nothing in it for us - so why bother?
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
What I was told was from a senior advisor to the govt and reflects his interpretation of what he has been told by govt figures about what they think Aussies true position is.
Obviously Aussie aren't going to acknowledge it, but I would give it some credence. It looks very familiar to our own position re places like the Cooks. Nothing in it for us - so why bother?
look, i'm not dismissing it, i just can't marry that view with the fact that the Aus border is currently open to NZ quarantine free. If NZ dropped their quarantine this weekend, what would the Aus response be?
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@mariner4life and I'm not saying it's accurate I was just passing on what I heard. Your scenario about NZ relaxing the border at the moment raises an interesting scenario but one that no one would give any credence to.
Kiwi's have been able to travel to Singapore without quarantining for months. It's the two weeks when you get back plus having to pay that turns people off. Plus ya know Singapore closed doesn't sound all that peachy.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
the federal tourism minister told me the exact opposite a week ago. He was hoping by the end of March, but seemed resigned to later
I don't think both of you can be right......
This is politics, of course they can
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
look, i'm not dismissing it, i just can't marry that view with the fact that the Aus border is currently open to NZ quarantine free. If NZ dropped their quarantine this weekend, what would the Aus response be?
In practice the Australia border has already closed twice to non-quarantine travel from NZ with roughly six hours notice. It's the no-alcohol beer of open borders for appearances, rather than anything of substance that business travel or a tourism industry could rely on yet.
Edit: it allows the Australian govt to say with a straight face to their local tourism industry that they are genuinely trying to open things up, while also sending a message across the Tasman that they're not completely serious about sticking it out for now.
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@donsteppa to be fair, the borders inside the goddam country do the same thing
I'm not discounting it, it's actually pretty smart.
It would just fuck me off no end.
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
look, i'm not dismissing it, i just can't marry that view with the fact that the Aus border is currently open to NZ quarantine free. If NZ dropped their quarantine this weekend, what would the Aus response be?
In practice the Australia border has already closed twice to non-quarantine travel from NZ with roughly six hours notice. It's the no-alcohol beer of open borders for appearances, rather than anything of substance that business travel or a tourism industry could rely on yet.
Edit: it allows the Australian govt to say with a straight face to their local tourism industry that they are genuinely trying to open things up, while also sending a message across the Tasman that they're not completely serious about sticking it out for now.
Closing an open border for a 3 day window is an annoyance, but hardly evident of a reluctance to do business. It doesn't stop you doing business or stop people choosing to travel, at least not completely.
If NZ dropped quarantine for us here in Oz, I'd be on the next plane home to see my Mum, well aware of the risk of those borders potentially shutting for a window
And if the reason that I cant do that is down to Australia deciding that they want their tourism dollars spent domestically, then that is an absolute disgrace.
Whats next? Will they limit me to 1x overseas holiday per year post-covid? Can I buy goods online from overseas?
It's very shitty, and I sincerely hope it's not true.
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I think part of the issue is that having developed criteria for hot spots, the Australian government ignores them when reinstating quarantine as soon as we have a community case. As long as they can't even stick to their own rules, it's hard to have much faith in their stated position. I can see how an Kiwi advisor or politician would get cynical quickly...
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think part of the issue is that having developed criteria for hot spots, the Australian government ignores them when reinstating quarantine as soon as we have a community case. As long as they can't even stick to their own rules, it's hard to have much faith in their stated position. I can see how an Kiwi advisor or politician would get cynical quickly...
No issue with that, I can understand NZ driving the process. It's Australia potentially not wanting the reciprocal right to go to NZ that's winding me up!
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa to be fair, the borders inside the goddam country do the same thing
I'm not discounting it, it's actually pretty smart.
I'd go with Hanlon's razor on this. The government simply isn't smart enough to come up with such a plan. The PM needs his wife to ask him how he'd feel about his own daughters being raped before he has any empathy. This after hiring an empathy consultant.
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Presumably if we get a case or 2 every other day, all linked to the existing one, there would be no need to change alert levels?
I see scanning numbers have dropped significantly with Auckland dropping back to L1.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
Wouldn't two-way be better than one-way? Not sure what I'm missing.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
Wouldn't two-way be better than one-way? Not sure what I'm missing.
The source was implying that the Australian Gov wants Aussie tourism $ spent domestically, presumably assuming that this is worth more than any potential NZ tourists coming into NZ
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo I am told, (from a source very close to the Beehive), that despite the PR the Aussie govt has no wish for a two way travel bubble with N.Z. They see no upside for Australia but lots of downside as Aussies starved of international; or even inter-state, travel flock to for a little RnR.
Wouldn't two-way be better than one-way? Not sure what I'm missing.
The source was implying that the Australian Gov wants Aussie tourism $ spent domestically, presumably assuming that this is worth more than any potential NZ tourists coming into NZ
I'd like to see the numbers on that. Considering none of us can travel anywhere else I would have thought that there was plenty of tourists to go around.
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@taniwharugby It's a worry that the teenager worked at Kmart, esp on a Friday and Saturday.
31 close contacts (colleagues) and who knows how many customers.
And then all the places they visited that they don't know about yet.
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@stargazer said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby It's a worry that the teenager worked at Kmart, esp on a Friday and Saturday.
31 close contacts (colleagues) and who knows how many customers.
And then all the places they visited that they don't know about yet.
I hope she worked because she felt fine, in which case she was far less infectious and it becomes a dead end. Because I really don't want to go back into L3 again....
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One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
I think it comes down to the contact tracing and how quickly they can track down all the contacts and if need be get them into isolation. The Coronacast podcast in Oz often discusses this - I should take notes so I can better recall what they say.
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
I think they are conscious that the public will become increasingly intolerant of long lockdowns. And they were going to take a massive subsidy hit if the lockdown lasted a week. Maybe they are getting better at contact tracing too
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@nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
I think it comes down to the contact tracing and how quickly they can track down all the contacts and if need be get them into isolation. The Coronacast podcast in Oz often discusses this - I should take notes so I can better recall what they say.
They never found the source did they?
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
I think it comes down to the contact tracing and how quickly they can track down all the contacts and if need be get them into isolation. The Coronacast podcast in Oz often discusses this - I should take notes so I can better recall what they say.
They never found the source did they?
No
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
I think it comes down to the contact tracing and how quickly they can track down all the contacts and if need be get them into isolation. The Coronacast podcast in Oz often discusses this - I should take notes so I can better recall what they say.
They never found the source did they?
No idea, I haven't been following what's happening in NZ too closely, just relaying what the Coronacast lot have said in relation to Australia lockdowns that are shorter then 14 days.
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I felt they overreacted in both directions a couple of weeks ago. At least in terms of any consistency. Des Gorman’s comments on rapidly changing levels of risk acceptance seemed to sum it up well.
So now we have KMart cases and Level 1 is fine.
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
University of Auckland professor Des Gorman said he felt unease with the decision to lower the alert levels.
"I think the reason I share that unease is because the level of risk we seem to be tolerating is going up and down almost imperturbably," he told Checkpoint.
"For example, the Ministry of Health found out about these cases on Saturday night but didn't think it was necessary to tell the prime minister for 12 hours. So things which should have been cancelled if we needed to be in alert level 3... weren't.
"I can't see a consistency in our risk appetite, it seems to go up and down depending upon the optics of the situation."
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So apparently the K Mart offshoot was started by a family member of a Papatoetoe college student. They were told to self isolate until their tests came back, this person was slow to get tested because they were asymptomatic, then they got aches. Fucking hell
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@donsteppa yea I think most people were surprised at the level drops last week.
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
One thing I don't understand about the governments quick move back down the levels is that the virus tends to have a 10 - 14 day incubation period. So surely if we get put at L3 we should be there for two weeks to monitor further cases?
Not that I am advocating for further lockdowns, but there's really no consistency with our response at the moment.
The main reason of going to level 3 was to establish whether the source of this new cluster was related to the virus already being in the community (with the risk of a quick community spread), or whether one of case A, B and C was the first of a new outbreak in the community.
That's why they started testing things like waste water, testing work colleagues of the person worked at that company that did the laundry for airlines (so a link to the border) etc. It would also have been picked up by the increased number of people getting tests.
While they haven't found the exact source of this new cluster, they have been able to establish that the new cluster isn't caused by previously undetected spread in the community. If they had, Auckland would have stayed in level 3.
Going back to level 2 and then 1, is because they trust the contract tracing procedures they have in place, apparently despite people not using the Covid tracer app.
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This is from an interview with the Papatoetoe HS principal on Radio NZ:
It was too soon for him to make contact with the latest family. They were hard to contact previously, Couillault said. More testing was being done at the school today, with students turning up as they had been asked to do, Couillault said. While he didn't know yet whether any families or pupils would decide not to be tested again, probably there would be some. "In the last round there were some that were consciously choosing not to test and were choosing to isolate for 14 days. That is of course their prerogative." Asked if he would be confident students who were meant to have isolated for 14 days had done so, Couillault said it was a "high trust situation". "I don't really have any alternative, but we're going to make every effort to communicate effectively with those people." He didn't know why the family identified with Covid-19 yesterday had been hard to contact. "We have a number of families that often change numbers, change addresses... We did get there in the end, but yes they were hard to contact. The phones were ringing but no one was picking up. "Which was frustrating but everyone's got a story to tell, which when you listen to their side of the story is always quite reasonable." -
About the teenager who works at Kmart:
Most of the time the worker with Covid-19 was folding clothes in the men's and women's clothes areas. "She did a little bit of customer interface with click and collect but for very short periods. That gives an opportunity to identify those people who she interacted with and follow them up. -
@stargazer the general messiness of life aye.
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Gotta give it to Papatoetoe High for how well the vast majority have responded to this.
Here's an update from Papatoetoe High School principal Vaughan Couillaul regarding the latest testing numbers at the school.
1016 students have been retested at the school, that's including the 672 tests from yesterday (Tuesday). Which brings number of tests done at the school on Wednesday to 344.
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I take back absolutely everything I said. Fucking Qld government
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I take back absolutely everything I said. Fucking Qld government
Just heard about a friend of a colleague who was due to move countries for work... She was at Auckland Airport with her child and worldly belongings waiting for her flight, when the flights got cancelled because they were via Brisbane. So no flights, no house, all possessions and a child at 9pm at the airport.
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@godder just had a workmate return from Oz where they'd gone for a specialist op. She had a fucking mental time with everyone wanting a negative test result, in spite of their own rules/exemptions about NZers coming through. She just dug in her heels and each time they double checked and found out she was right. She made her flight back but said it was heaving and they had to leave over 80 suitcases and bags behind as the plane was full. lol then they managed to lose her suitdcase. Shambles.
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Went to dentist. He said he had received email from his supplier of local anaesthetic saying they were running low and going to ration it out.
Covid caused.
But due to factory in USA running at low staffing levels rather than freight disruptions. I'd imaging there are other factories around world running OK, if push really came to shove. Easier to overcome than supply chain issue.
