Coronavirus - China



  • I see they have changed how they define infected for the 7th time. The numbers coming out of China are a complete fabrication and propoganda.
    China needs to be held to account in a big way for the death and carnage they have caused.



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus -China:

    I see they have changed how they define infected for the 7th time. The numbers coming out of China are a complete fabrication and propoganda.
    China needs to be held to account in a big way for the death and carnage they have caused.

    What's changed this time?





  • I hope they pay a severe price but will they?

    I can't see how it happens, especially with the number of countries so highly dependent on them.

    It requires the entire world to unite against them.



  • @Frank said in Coronavirus - China:

    I hope they pay a severe price but will they?

    especially if they get back on thier feet first as they appear to be doing, and the rest of the world is still on thier knees...

    I cant see how they can be held to account really...plus when it comes to business, memories seem to be short.



  • especially as a whole host of countries put in place much the same testing regime as china - even after it was pointed out how flawed it was.



  • @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Frank said in Coronavirus - China:

    I hope they pay a severe price but will they?

    especially if they get back on thier feet first as they appear to be doing, and the rest of the world is still on thier knees...

    I cant see how they can be held to account really...plus when it comes to business, memories seem to be short.

    China is reliant on the rest of the world for trade both ways so they won't be able to do a lot while the rest is essentially shut down



  • It's not just about China. Wet markets all over the world are a big part of the problem but important to the communities they service. Today it was China, a few years ago the swine flu started in Mexico, tomorrow who knows? Mrs CF saw footage of a wet market in Thailand. All sorts of illegal black market animals, none of them having any business living together in the wild, housed close together before being slaughtered for food. These places are a nursery for the next killer virus.



  • @Hooroo said in Coronavirus - China:

    @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Frank said in Coronavirus - China:

    I hope they pay a severe price but will they?

    especially if they get back on thier feet first as they appear to be doing, and the rest of the world is still on thier knees...

    I cant see how they can be held to account really...plus when it comes to business, memories seem to be short.

    China is reliant on the rest of the world for trade both ways so they won't be able to do a lot while the rest is essentially shut down

    They seem to be selling a lot of medical supplies right now. One of our suppliers announced flights heading to China to pick up shipments of PPE and I seem to recall the government is doing the same?



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Hooroo said in Coronavirus - China:

    @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Frank said in Coronavirus - China:

    I hope they pay a severe price but will they?

    especially if they get back on thier feet first as they appear to be doing, and the rest of the world is still on thier knees...

    I cant see how they can be held to account really...plus when it comes to business, memories seem to be short.

    China is reliant on the rest of the world for trade both ways so they won't be able to do a lot while the rest is essentially shut down

    They seem to be selling a lot of medical supplies right now. One of our suppliers announced flights heading to China to pick up shipments of PPE and I seem to recall the government is doing the same?

    Same with our dairy exports etc but we are not up and running, just like China will struggle to do until all the buyers are out there again



  • @Hooroo said in Coronavirus - China:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Hooroo said in Coronavirus - China:

    @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Frank said in Coronavirus - China:

    I hope they pay a severe price but will they?

    especially if they get back on thier feet first as they appear to be doing, and the rest of the world is still on thier knees...

    I cant see how they can be held to account really...plus when it comes to business, memories seem to be short.

    China is reliant on the rest of the world for trade both ways so they won't be able to do a lot while the rest is essentially shut down

    They seem to be selling a lot of medical supplies right now. One of our suppliers announced flights heading to China to pick up shipments of PPE and I seem to recall the government is doing the same?

    Same with our dairy exports etc but we are not up and running, just like China will struggle to do until all the buyers are out there again

    Basically global trade will be bit fucked for a while. But if we can clear the lockdown and get back online sooner than most we may be in ideal position to capitalize from exporting to China



  • Yeah I think we might need to hold off the invasion of China until we get ourselves back on our feet



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    It's not just about China. Wet markets all over the world are a big part of the problem but important to the communities they service. Today it was China, a few years ago the swine flu started in Mexico, tomorrow who knows? Mrs CF saw footage of a wet market in Thailand. All sorts of illegal black market animals, none of them having any business living together in the wild, housed close together before being slaughtered for food. These places are a nursery for the next killer virus.

    I heard about a report by Chinese scientists that seemed to point to it most likely coming from a research centre for the prevention of diseases in Wuhan. They reckoned there were no bats being sold in the wet market that is being blamed. Really hard to know, but if it did come from the research centre then there is no way the Chinese government would admit to that as it would make them look incompetent.



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Hooroo said in Coronavirus - China:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Hooroo said in Coronavirus - China:

    @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Frank said in Coronavirus - China:

    I hope they pay a severe price but will they?

    especially if they get back on thier feet first as they appear to be doing, and the rest of the world is still on thier knees...

    I cant see how they can be held to account really...plus when it comes to business, memories seem to be short.

    China is reliant on the rest of the world for trade both ways so they won't be able to do a lot while the rest is essentially shut down

    They seem to be selling a lot of medical supplies right now. One of our suppliers announced flights heading to China to pick up shipments of PPE and I seem to recall the government is doing the same?

    Same with our dairy exports etc but we are not up and running, just like China will struggle to do until all the buyers are out there again

    Basically global trade will be bit fucked for a while. But if we can clear the lockdown and get back online sooner than most we may be in ideal position to capitalize from exporting to China

    Yes, and for this reason, I can not see China being penalised as such even if they need to be or not



  • Baron, just for you. I saw this on tv two nights ago, and figured if you hadn’t seen it you would want to. Strangely, Fox News did not promote it, and some yuotubers were uploading it and then it was getting removed. Likely just a Chinesecoincidence, maybe, who knows. Bloody thing should be viral, excuese the pun, I mean it. Give it a watch while you can, some fascinating stuff.



  • @No-Quarter Always possible but I find that slightly unlikely, Coronavirus has been around in animals and humans for a long time. According to Wiki there are 7 strains of known Human Coronavirus. I assume if you have the right conditions like wet markets etc these viruses will mutate and new strains will develop.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    It's not just about China. Wet markets all over the world are a big part of the problem but important to the communities they service. Today it was China, a few years ago the swine flu started in Mexico, tomorrow who knows? Mrs CF saw footage of a wet market in Thailand. All sorts of illegal black market animals, none of them having any business living together in the wild, housed close together before being slaughtered for food. These places are a nursery for the next killer virus.

    Actually it is all about China. It isn't the wet market that is responsible for the pandemic, it is the Chinese government response. They have effectively murdered people.



  • @dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:

    especially as a whole host of countries put in place much the same testing regime as china - even after it was pointed out how flawed it was.

    I don't know what your point is? Poor testing isn't the issue, that sort of stuff can happen when desperate. It is the lies, propoganda and cover up that is the problem



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback sorry might point was more about the article which put a lot of blame on China's testing regime - which others then duplicated.

    I'm not excusing China but as I said elsewhere the whole world could be a lot worse off if Chinese scientists (as opposed to the government) hadn't released the genome so quickly.

    Other governments have spent way too long in denial as well, the issue in China is there is no balancing fourth estate



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback your definition of murder is slightly different from mine I think.... Their actions, in acting slowly and not raising the alarm fast enough, along with the incompetence and resistance of lower level officials to pass on word that something was wrong all point to a heavily flawed response that cost many of their own citizens their lives, and countless others globally. But I don't see any systemic desire to cause people harm. Doesn't make any of it right of course



  • Even if China had raised the alarm earlier would anyone have listened? Plenty of cases of countries who dismissed it even though it was clear what was happening.



  • @No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - China:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    It's not just about China. Wet markets all over the world are a big part of the problem but important to the communities they service. Today it was China, a few years ago the swine flu started in Mexico, tomorrow who knows? Mrs CF saw footage of a wet market in Thailand. All sorts of illegal black market animals, none of them having any business living together in the wild, housed close together before being slaughtered for food. These places are a nursery for the next killer virus.

    I heard about a report by Chinese scientists that seemed to point to it most likely coming from a research centre for the prevention of diseases in Wuhan. They reckoned there were no bats being sold in the wet market that is being blamed. Really hard to know, but if it did come from the research centre then there is no way the Chinese government would admit to that as it would make them look incompetent.

    Not sure whether that's what you are implying but there have already been several studies into the COVID19 causing virus and according to those studies it's very unlikely that the virus is man-made.



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Hooroo said in Coronavirus - China:

    @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Frank said in Coronavirus - China:

    I hope they pay a severe price but will they?

    especially if they get back on thier feet first as they appear to be doing, and the rest of the world is still on thier knees...

    I cant see how they can be held to account really...plus when it comes to business, memories seem to be short.

    China is reliant on the rest of the world for trade both ways so they won't be able to do a lot while the rest is essentially shut down

    They seem to be selling a lot of medical supplies right now. One of our suppliers announced flights heading to China to pick up shipments of PPE and I seem to recall the government is doing the same?

    Many benefits (to China) for doing this.

    1. They depend on the rest of the world's economies getting on their feet again.
    2. It's a PR campaign to deflect from their role in covering this disaster up in the early stages.

    All countries act in their own interest, but China is on a whole new level than the West in this respect.



  • @Stargazer said in Coronavirus - China:

    @No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - China:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    It's not just about China. Wet markets all over the world are a big part of the problem but important to the communities they service. Today it was China, a few years ago the swine flu started in Mexico, tomorrow who knows? Mrs CF saw footage of a wet market in Thailand. All sorts of illegal black market animals, none of them having any business living together in the wild, housed close together before being slaughtered for food. These places are a nursery for the next killer virus.

    I heard about a report by Chinese scientists that seemed to point to it most likely coming from a research centre for the prevention of diseases in Wuhan. They reckoned there were no bats being sold in the wet market that is being blamed. Really hard to know, but if it did come from the research centre then there is no way the Chinese government would admit to that as it would make them look incompetent.

    Not sure whether that's what you are implying but there have already been several studies into the COVID19 causing virus and according to those studies it's very unlikely that the virus is man-made.

    Nah not man-made, the report said they were doing testing on the bats and it may have inadvertently been passed to one of the testers, not that they were creating the virus in a lab.



  • @chimoaus said in Coronavirus - China:

    Even if China had raised the alarm earlier would anyone have listened? Plenty of cases of countries who dismissed it even though it was clear what was happening.

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

    The Chinese government informed the WHO that something going on in Wuhan in late December 2019

    Taiwan contacted the Chinese government within two weeks and asked China to allow their observers in. The Chinese government granted their sworn enemies access, and while China did not give them absolute full disclosure they allowed them more than enough access for the Taiwanese to recognize the threat and act accordingly. Their action plan has been as good as anyone's.

    So what was everyone else doing for 3 months? They told the world and no one did anything about it. If you want to paint their hands with the blood of thousands why not add those who govern Italy, Spain, the USA and all the rest?



  • @canefan Telling people that you've got a bit of a leak but it's under control is different to we have a gaping gash in the hull and we're definitely going to sink.



  • @antipodean said in Coronavirus - China:

    @canefan Telling people that you've got a bit of a leak but it's under control is different to we have a gaping gash in the hull and we're definitely going to sink.

    The Taiwanese asked to be let in and the Chinese government allowed them in. That doesn't sound like cover up to me. If I just murdered some guy in my basement, am I going to let my nosy pesky next door neighbor inside when he comes knocking?



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    @antipodean said in Coronavirus - China:

    @canefan Telling people that you've got a bit of a leak but it's under control is different to we have a gaping gash in the hull and we're definitely going to sink.

    The Taiwanese asked to be let in and the Chinese government allowed them in. That doesn't sound like cover up to me

    You're being awfully selective about your criteria. What about case definition and numbers? North Korea let in observers as well...



  • @antipodean TBH I think part of the issue is there wasnt a standardised method of detection/reporting, which is why there are varying results



  • It will be interesting to look back at all of this when the next big pandemic or disease sweeps the globe. How many countries will have learned lessons and made serious changes to prepare?



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    It will be interesting to look back at all of this when the next big pandemic or disease sweeps the globe. How many countries will have learned lessons and made serious changes to prepare?

    if it takes too long for the next one, the departments will be eroded as funds are transferred elsewhere...



  • @mariner4life said in Coronavirus - China:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    It will be interesting to look back at all of this when the next big pandemic or disease sweeps the globe. How many countries will have learned lessons and made serious changes to prepare?

    if it takes too long for the next one, the departments will be eroded as funds are transferred elsewhere...

    .... and as people, forget enthusiasm wanes for such measures. And politicians don't see any political gain out of continuing it



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback your definition of murder is slightly different from mine I think.... Their actions, in acting slowly and not raising the alarm fast enough, along with the incompetence and resistance of lower level officials to pass on word that something was wrong all point to a heavily flawed response that cost many of their own citizens their lives, and countless others globally. But I don't see any systemic desire to cause people harm. Doesn't make any of it right of course

    You seem to be persisting in blaming mid level officials, that is just nonsense. I would love to know on what you are basing that. The reality is that officials did raise it, and they disappeared. There is zero blame on mid level officials and complete ad utter blame on the communist party hierarchy.



  • @chimoaus said in Coronavirus - China:

    Even if China had raised the alarm earlier would anyone have listened? Plenty of cases of countries who dismissed it even though it was clear what was happening.

    Of course they would have. And it wasnt clear what was happening for bloody ages.... because China made it so.



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - China:

    @chimoaus said in Coronavirus - China:

    Even if China had raised the alarm earlier would anyone have listened? Plenty of cases of countries who dismissed it even though it was clear what was happening.

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

    The Chinese government informed the WHO that something going on in Wuhan in late December 2019

    Taiwan contacted the Chinese government within two weeks and asked China to allow their observers in. The Chinese government granted their sworn enemies access, and while China did not give them absolute full disclosure they allowed them more than enough access for the Taiwanese to recognize the threat and act accordingly. Their action plan has been as good as anyone's.

    So what was everyone else doing for 3 months? They told the world and no one did anything about it. If you want to paint their hands with the blood of thousands why not add those who govern Italy, Spain, the USA and all the rest?

    Are you joking??? The access they gave was strictly regulated and controlled, basically a token effort. It was nowhere near enough for Taiwan to recognise the threat, in mid Jan the WHI was still saying it was not transferred person to person. The action plan form the is not known as they have covered everything up. But if you actually know that their action plan was.. you would be the only one outside the communist party that did,



  • @dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.

    Rubbish, the US was listening, unfortunately they were listening to the WHO who in turn was listening to the lies coming from China.



  • The numbers out of China over the last few months become more incredible by the day.

    "... the greatest work of fiction since vows of fidelity were included in the French marriage service." (E. Blackadder).



  • @canefan @dogmeat

    Have a read of this. Hopefully it will cure of your propensity to swallow the propaganda from the Chinese communist party

    https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/



  • @Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:

    @dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:

    @Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.

    Rubbish, the US was listening, unfortunately they were listening to the WHO who in turn was listening to the lies coming from China.

    The US govt knew much more than what WHO was telling them, as did many countries. This is what intelligence networks and analysts do. The problem is when those they report to choose to downplay or ignore the threat assessments.
    I believe there was a briefing in January raising high risk. A clear indication to start checking that crisis plans are in place.


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