Black Lives Matter
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@Kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
@MN5 said in Black Lives Matter:
@Crucial said in Black Lives Matter:
Some of the scenarios are quite bizzarre and I sometimes wonder if I can even judge them fairly not living in that world.
I wonder what the reactions would be from some US cops watching our Police TV shows.Our guys seem to be selected for their people skills and are often able to defuse simple situations and stop them going crazy just by their manner. US cops are trained to pull guns first, talk second.
Massive generalisation. This shit is precisely what fuels their bullshit rhetoric.
I think it would be far more accurate to look at these on a state by state basis.
I know it was. I thought it was obvious that I was talking in very general terms. It was more to compare the general approach in NZ to the US.
Almost a pointless comparison though, even in general terms. If you are a cop in the US, the odds of you being shot at traffic stop are asrtominically higher than in NZ, so of course you get difference policing styles and training.
The US cops need significantly more funding to handle that stress.
I remember aucklandwarlord I think it was saying he would never be a cop in the States. Talked about how killing cops in NZ is really taboo, particularly among gangs, whereas in the States it is the norm.
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I found this article quite interesting. Some background.
Fans are slowly being let back into grounds in the UK, with 2,000 permitted now at games. The players have been taking a knee for Black Lives Matter since football returned a few months ago. So Millwall, a legendary right-wing club (whose supporters are proper old-school football hooligans) boo'd the shit out of the players whilst kneeling. Here is the BBC article on the incident:
This quote here annoys me. Regardless of Millwall history and fans, this comment here pissed me off:
Former Coventry and Aston Villa striker Dion Dublin, who had a loan spell at Millwall in 2002, added: "They don't agree with taking the knee, which means they are racist. They don't agree with Black Lives Matter; that says they are racist to me.
That's just bullshit. And then a follow up one, which at least has one comment of perspective.
The wariness of Black Lives Matter is pretty widely spread in the UK on the back of the political ramifications. Slogans like Defund the Police have really turned people off it. Millwall fans were (rightly) asked for comment and this is what was said:
The Millwall Supporters' Club said the booing was not motivated by racism, but instead in opposition to the political views held by the Black Lives Matter organisation
Booing is a terrible look. And Millwall has a poor reputation so this adds to that. But the club move is moving to arm in arm instead of taking the knee makes a lot of sense to me. Yet, you can be sure as shit it ain't gonna be reported like that ....
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@MajorRage One of my mates said something the other day that resonated with me, though he probably got it rom an inspirational poster rom Athena.
I support my black mates but not BLM. I support my white mates but not KKK. I do not support hate groups.
A bit of a disconnect between BLM and KKK but the gist of it is sound I feel.
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@Catogrande I don't think I'm quite there with Black Lives Matter. I don't believe the intention of it is to spread hate.
I don't agree with their politics though, not even close.
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@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
There you go.
Mill wall fans unite behind anti racism snd equality. Do not unite behind BLM.
I should add though I really wish this would lead to a wider discussion about why this is. There are millions (no exaggeration) in this country who agree with the Millwall fans.
It's just easier to call Millwall fans racist and move on.
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@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
@Catogrande I don't think I'm quite there with Black Lives Matter. I don't believe the intention of it is to spread hate.
I don't agree with their politics though, not even close.
For sue, but it is the hijacking af what is a sound cause that grates somewhat and add to that the herd shouting racism if you don't adhere to their agenda. See Dion Dublin in your previous post.
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@MajorRage said in Black Lives Matter:
@Catogrande I don't think I'm quite there with Black Lives Matter. I don't believe the intention of it is to spread hate.
I don't agree with their politics though, not even close.You don't need to intend to spread hate to actually spread hate. If you constantly keep "othering" and blaming people or groups the hating will take care of itself, as the Rwandans will testify, as will South African farmers, Yugoslav muslims or Cambodian minority groups
If they really want to change minds I don't understand their tactics. You can't force people to empathise, or guilt trip them into it without locking in resentment and resistance. I'm sure the BLM supporters know this, so I can only assume they don't care, or maybe it's exactly what they want. I can't see anything good coming from intentionally alienating a plurality of the population.
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@Victor-Meldrew ridiculous
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The Chauvin trial is not going well for the entire country.
There's no way the prosecution have delivered a beyond reasonable doubt case at this point and even the defence have called on a prosecution witness who will better serve the defence. Star witness, Floyd's drug dealer, has pleaded the 5th because there is 3rd degree murder in Minnesota for drug dealers whose customers die. Yes, he's afraid to testify because there's a real chance that he replaces Chauvin as Floyd's murderer.And still parts of America will burn and people will die for a complex case that never looked as easy as the noise makers were saying.
The whole Western world got taken in by this false flag of BLM. We even stopped COVID for their lies and non data claims. Now we'll watch them destroy more property.
Unbelievably stupid people out there, all being taken advantage of by bad actors and race grifters.
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@siam said in US Politics:
Unbelievably stupid people out there, all being taken advantage of by bad actors and race grifters.
Follow the money, always follow the money.
Patrisse Khan-Cullors, the leader of Black Lives Matter and a self-described Marxist, recently purchased a $1.4 million home in an exclusive Los Angeles neighborhood Black Lives Matter, which began as hashtag in response to the acquittal of George Zimmerman in the 2012 shooting of Trayvon Martin, took in more than $90 million last year and was at the forefront of protests across the country last year after the death of George Floyd in May. Khan-Cullors, 37, signed a multi-platform deal with Warner Bros in October, although it is not clear how much she is paid by BLM since their finances flow through a complex web of for-profit and nonprofit corporate entities.
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On the subject of money, bear in mind that the Floyd family have been paid 27 million USD from the city of Minneapolis in compensation.
All the BLM protests, over 100 days violent protesting and billions of dollars damage plus a few kids being killed (oh and people losing their jobs) because a known violent drug addicted criminal (convictions for armed robbery of a pregnant woman), ingested 4 times the deadly amount of fentanyl/methamphetamine immediately upon being questioned by police.
All this mayhem for a year. All the innocent people who lost property. All the kneeling displays. All the censorship. All the fake tears. All the hypocrisy of lockdown breaches. All the 30% increase of homicides and crime due to defunding the police. All the hypocrisy.
Because a scumbag had a cardiac arrest from swallowing his stash.
Or was it a world in turmoil to shine a light on the epidemic police brutality that kills, presumably hundreds or thousands of unarmed civilians?
First, to put the statistics into perspective, it’s helpful to begin with the overall number of arrests. According to the DOJ, police make about 10 million arrests each year. As a rough average, 7 million of the arrested suspects are white and 3 million are black. Out of that number, last year, 25 unarmed white people were killed by police, compared to 14 unarmed black people, according to the Washington Post database of police shootings. That means about .0004 percent of all blacks arrested were killed while unarmed. The percentage for whites is comparable. In total, 1,000 people were shot and killed by police in 2019, the vast majority of whom were armed. Still, that’s a mere .01 percent of all arrests.
Pretty consistently, 50 policeman are murdered per year in the US
Rioting is inevitable. How do we make sense of this?
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@siam said in US Politics:
Because a scumbag had a cardiac arrest from swallowing his stash.
A little judgmental there, and that came from the defendant's lawyer based on fuck all real evidence that I have read.
I'm can't really comment either way as I don't know the truth - you probably don't either - but he likely died of asphyxiation, that likely wouldn't have happened without someone kneeling on his neck. I'm all for cops rights to protect themselves and such but that was extreme.
The aftermath is hugely disappointing about human nature and lack of common sense.
Those stats are interesting, the "unarmed" bit might have quite some relevance.
The 10m arrests as well, 332m Americans, that's 3%ish of Americans are arrested each year? Really? I understand that isn't convictions but it is a huge number. I barely know anyone that has been arrested. Blacks apparently make up %13.4 of the population, but according to those numbers, 30% of arrests.I'm not arguing a point because I just don't have the facts, so judgement calls from afar may not be wise by any of us. Happy to converse though. Personally I would be quite upset if anyone, cop or otherwise, knelt on my neck for 20minutes and killed me.
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@snowy said in US Politics:
@siam said in US Politics:
Because a scumbag had a cardiac arrest from swallowing his stash.
A little judgmental there, and that came from the defendant's lawyer based on fuck all real evidence that I have read.
I'm can't really comment either way as I don't know the truth - you probably don't either - but he likely died of asphyxiation, that likely wouldn't have happened without someone kneeling on his neck. I'm all for cops rights to protect themselves and such but that was extreme.
The aftermath is hugely disappointing about human nature and lack of common sense.
Those stats are interesting, the "unarmed" bit might have quite some relevance.
The 10m arrests as well, 332m Americans, that's 3%ish of Americans are arrested each year? Really? I understand that isn't convictions but it is a huge number. I barely know anyone that has been arrested. Blacks apparently make up %13.4 of the population, but according to those numbers, 30% of arrests.I'm not arguing a point because I just don't have the facts, so judgement calls from afar may not be wise by any of us. Happy to converse though. Personally I would be quite upset if anyone, cop or otherwise, knelt on my neck for 20minutes and killed me.
You've offered nothing there mate,🙂 except to be a "little judgemental" to the post and attempt to pooh pooh all my points. Starting at the first sentence.
I guess you've not seen or watched the evidence presented of photos of drugs in the mouth. Photos of police numbered baggies in his car and the police car or witnesses and toxicology reporting that his health was compromised by drugs in his body.
Vs
"and that came from the defendant's lawyer based on fuck all real evidence that I have read."The rest of your post you offer no information man. Just chucking out "likely"s, which are increasingly being diminished during the court case. As you're no doubt aware it's still the prosecution's turn and there have been some interesting witness performances so far. Johnny Mercil, police use of force trainer, testifying that he has restrained perps for longer. After the prosecution witness, state medical care training expert Nicole McKenzie, testified, the defence announced that he intended to recall her for his side of the trial! The actions of drug dealer (as identified under oath by Floyd's girlfriend) Morris Hall are also examples of not likelys and demand further discussion.
I like the way you rationalised the Washington post stats away. To be fair I know a few yanks that have been arrested so maybe the stats are good.🙂
But as you say, you're not arguing a point (merely smearing through inference mine😉) but I thought this gem of enlightenment was maximum Karen as you marched up to the bar to get the next round in:
"Personally I would be quite upset if anyone, cop or otherwise, knelt on my neck for 20minutes and killed me."
🙂
Please have a go at my posts but do me the courtesy of at least contributing useful information and we can compare sources and discuss objectively. I'm a bit suss that my sources are feeding from the same lawyer dude. But that's tempered by watching real video of the court proceedings.
I gotta be clear here: I don't give a flying fuck about Chauvin or Floyd or McKenzie or any of them. Couldn't give a shit. No bias except that we acknowledge truth and tease it out through a robust justice system.
You finished on a well d'uh so I will too😉
This court case is fucking MASSIVE for how the next 3 years plays out worldwide. Toxic racism ideology on the rise or starting to fray at the edges.
We're sliding into "everyone has their own truth" territory quicksmart.
Do we have a collective truth as a guiding principle any more?
Is this a vital test of the institution of justice and will people abide by it's rulings?
How America and the world reacts to the final verdict is a pivotal health check on western societies, in my opinion. I fear a cancer so entrenched only invasive surgery balances it up.
This thing is OJ Simpson on steroids.
It merits our sourcing sound data, context and objectivity.
(All good snowy - your turn, have at me mate!)👍
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@snowy videos from tim Pool and Carl Benjamin. Im
pretty satisfied that I'm getting objective info from court cameras and written quotes. But they source this guy: https://lawofselfdefense.com/Would be delighted to see better or another analysis but please no more caveat statements like "no one knows for sure" or "kneeling bad".
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@siam said in US Politics:
@snowy videos from tim Pool and Carl Benjamin. Im
pretty satisfied that I'm getting objective info from court cameras and written quotes. But they source this guy: https://lawofselfdefense.com/Bloody hell, really? Objective???
I'm out.
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@snowy said in US Politics:
@siam said in US Politics:
@snowy videos from tim Pool and Carl Benjamin. Im
pretty satisfied that I'm getting objective info from court cameras and written quotes. But they source this guy: https://lawofselfdefense.com/Bloody hell, really? Objective???
I'm out.
Disappointing. If watching and reading quoted court transcripts is not considered objective, and all knowledge is solely as credible as the compiler, then I guess we do live our own truths already.
You offered nothing different from your opinion a year ago. Just sneered at my contributions and bolted. A modern example of dialogue🙂
But that's cool mate. I've got no issue with how you feel about all this. Thanks for the chat. All good man 👍
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@siam can I ask 2 genuine questions please? I have not followed the court case at all, so please excuse my ignorance.
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Was there a genuine need from a policing standpoint for the officer to restrain him the way he did for so long?
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Would Floyd have died if the officer had not restrained him in that way?
Those are genuinely not loaded questions, I promise. I'm just trying to establish some really basic levels for this case.
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