Future of The Rugby Championship



  • How do you guys reckon this will go in future, politically?

    For the record I am for the TRC continuing, but was happy to see demise of the full Southern Hemisphere Rugby Super Rugby.

    But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

    Do you think SARU / Boks not turning up this year – while partly about player welfare was also partly political? If so, they were prepared to cut their own nose to spite their face. Which would be a worrying sign of where the relationship is.

    Unfortunately for UAR, they are currently just flotsam in a SANZAAR rough sea.



  • @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    How do you guys reckon this will go in future, politically?

    For the record I am for the TRC continuing, but was happy to see demise of the full Southern Hemisphere Rugby Super Rugby.

    But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

    Do you think SARU / Boks not turning up this year – while partly about player welfare was also partly political? If so, they were prepared to cut their own nose to spite their face. Which would be a worrying sign of where the relationship is.

    Unfortunately for UAR, they are currently just flotsam in a SANZAAR rough sea.

    UAR?

    I keep thinking that I am happy about change but then all the changes I think of make me unhappy. If there is no World rugby season then the best for us is to keep playing SA and Aussie as there is often some remarkable rugby



  • BTW. I'm taking long term. 2022 and beyond.
    Not just next year whcih may still be disrupted. Either by covid still or by unions scrambling to catch up with some money making.



  • @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    UAR?

    In english - Union of Argentinian Rugby.



  • @Snowy said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    UAR?

    In english - Union of Argentinian Rugby.

    Cheers! Couldn't get past Uruguay



  • @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

    That bitterness would be unfounded. What were RA and NZR supposed to do, not play rugby and wait until South Africa had got on top of covid-19 sufficiently so teams could travel?

    Do you think SARU / Boks not turning up this year – while partly about player welfare was also partly political? If so, they were prepared to cut their own nose to spite their face. Which would be a worrying sign of where the relationship is.

    I think SARUs problems are closer to home and that hasn't really changed in decades. While they're still beholden to a racist regime, that regime is now corrupt and incompetent.



  • I get the feeling SARU want to join Europe at all pro levels.

    Weekly pro level. Which they are already doing with expanded Pro-14.
    European Champions Cup level.
    International level. Expanded 6 Nations.

    From their POV, that makes commercial sense.

    I have my doubts about Pro 14, And inter-continental clubs comps.
    But. If they are included in (European) Champions Cup , then I think it will make the Pro no longer 14 viable. If they are excluded then I think that expansion fails eventually. Their fate will depend ion whether English and French clubs want them in the tent.

    For international level. They will be dependent on whether 6 Nations want them in. I have my doubts. Tradition, travel and fitting it in the calendar. But need for money after covid disruption may have the unions prepared to shake up the status quo.



  • @antipodean said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

    That bitterness would be unfounded. What were RA and NZR supposed to do, not play rugby and wait until South Africa had got on top of covid-19 sufficiently so teams could travel?

    It's not the plans for 2020 or even 2021 that breaks the alliance and damages the relationships. It's NZRUs almost immediate (and unliateral) decision to permanently end the Super comp just a few months into the pandemic.

    Not that it isn't something SARU themselves have threatened every TV Rights renewal.



  • Playing the ABs is pretty huge, so I think we’ll see a seperation of SR and RC, and some way of having an international season to enable it. Supposed to be announced this or next month? Can’t remember.



  • i've said it over and over, i don't envy the people who try to put SH rugby together. The tyranny of distance is a killer. we're basically trying to play around half the world. Playing just inside Australia you cover more ground than all of Europe pretty much, before having to cross two fucking oceans.

    Add in each country having very different needs, and it's a shitfight from ball 1.

    I'll watch whatever. And i like a home and away. TO my eyes there wasn't much wrong with the old format, except too many fucking bledisloes.



  • @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    For international level. They will be dependent on whether 6 Nations want them in. I have my doubts. Tradition, travel and fitting it in the calendar.

    Yeah, I don't think the 6N will expand. It took 60 years before Italy joined and I don't see the current 6 countries wanting an odd number of teams in the competition.

    I hope the RC continues with SA involved because there is a tradition to have tests between NZ and SA. However, I'm not expecting the SA teams to be part of any SR competition in the future.



  • @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @antipodean said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

    That bitterness would be unfounded. What were RA and NZR supposed to do, not play rugby and wait until South Africa had got on top of covid-19 sufficiently so teams could travel?

    It's not the plans for 2020 or even 2021 that breaks the alliance and damages the relationships. It's NZRUs almost immediate (and unliateral) decision to permanently end the Super comp just a few months into the pandemic.

    Which if we're honest appears to be one of the few good things they've managed thus far.

    Not that it isn't something SARU themselves have threatened every TV Rights renewal.

    Exactly - they aren't some blushing bride here.

    And I don't see how they can be accepted into Europe anyway - the calendar is already full.



  • @antipodean said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @antipodean said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

    That bitterness would be unfounded. What were RA and NZR supposed to do, not play rugby and wait until South Africa had got on top of covid-19 sufficiently so teams could travel?

    It's not the plans for 2020 or even 2021 that breaks the alliance and damages the relationships. It's NZRUs almost immediate (and unliateral) decision to permanently end the Super comp just a few months into the pandemic.

    Which if we're honest appears to be one of the few good things they've managed thus far.

    We're absolutely in the same camp on this one.



  • @Bovidae said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    For international level. They will be dependent on whether 6 Nations want them in. I have my doubts. Tradition, travel and fitting it in the calendar.

    Yeah, I don't think the 6N will expand. It took 60 years before Italy joined and I don't see the current 6 countries wanting an odd number of teams in the competition.

    I hope the RC continues with SA involved because there is a tradition to have tests between NZ and SA. However, I'm not expecting the SA teams to be part of any SR competition in the future.

    This is where I am at.

    I don't think 6 Nations will want to expand.

    Apart from the geographic integrity of it currently.

    Part of the attraction for expansion from 5 to 6 Nations was to remove the bye, I think.



  • im afraid if we dont keep SA in the RC then we'll end up playing aussie four times a year...which will kill a lot of interest

    another forum im on which has become more NH focused has a lot of chat about how Italy haven't really improved much since joining and they might just get swapped out for SA, no idea how the voting etc works for the 6N though



  • @Kiwiwomble said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    another forum im on which has become more NH focused has a lot of chat about how Italy haven't really improved much since joining and they might just get swapped out for SA, no idea how the voting etc works for the 6N though

    Options would be

    Expand to 7. And use the 'fallow week'. Which would mean 7 tests in 7 weeks including 1 long haul for each team.

    Expand to 7, but extend tournament length. Need to negotiate with clubs.

    Stay at 6. But swap out Italy for Saf .
    Better rugby.
    Economically is replacing a 60 million country with declining population, but rich, but small rugby market. Replacing it with 55 million population country, rapidly growing, but poor, but richish rugby subpopulation, decent size rugby market by rugby standards



  • If you are a fan, would you prefer a weekend in Rome or a weekend in Johannesburg?



  • @Bovidae some have suggest they would play some home games in spain and home fans would be happy watch on tv



  • @Kiwiwomble said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Bovidae some have suggest they would play some home games in spain and home fans would be happy watch on tv

    Well, that is pure nonsense I've seen sprouted for Argentina, Fiji, and now South Africa.



  • I just hope a Nation's Championship can happen, would love to play the top teams every year. As for TRC, hopefully that can work within the Nation's Champ somehow. I can't see why we can't play SA, Aus, Arg twice and the other 6 teams once. Gives us 12 tests a year. Plus 1 vs a tier 2 before TRC.



  • @Bovidae said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    If you are a fan, would you prefer a weekend in Rome or a weekend in Johannesburg?

    You're more likely to see a decent rugby match in Jo'burg.
    You're more likely to get absorbed by history in Rome.

    You're quite likely to get mugged in both of them.



  • I don't think Italy can be replaced, though, anyway.

    Tournament is owned by Six Nations Rugby Ltd. Tried to google ownership structure but to no avail.

    But if single 6 Nations team could veto promotion-relegation in 6 Nations (and by proxy veto proposed Nations League), then assume same applies for kicking them out of a tournament they partly own for a shiny new play thing. Would need to be bought out.

    So, expansion is only realistic option.



  • Apparently the Saffas are getting paid for the RC despite stitching us all up.

    They can just fuck off, imo. Get japan in.



  • @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    So, expansion is only realistic option.

    Add Saffas and Georgia and make it 8 Nations!

    The Tractor Factory will provide a bit of competition for Italy and they're probably sick of kicking the shit out of Romania, Germany, and Spain in the 2nd Div comp anyway.



  • @Derpus said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    Apparently the Saffas are getting paid for the RC despite stitching us all up.

    Players? SARU for TV rights? Whose getting paid for what?
    Can't involve ticket sales surely.



  • @Snowy https://www.rugbyrocks.com/sa-rugby-to-earn-r130-million-despite-boks-withdrawal

    Don't know the specifics and it could be bullshit (looks pretty clickbaity). I've heard other anecdotal stuff that they'll still earn under the SANZAAR agreement.

    But, yeah, apparently they won't take that much of a financial hit for not showing.



  • Wouldn't surprise me.

    "This is due to a collective bargaining agreement that guaranteed all four Sanzaar nations would benefit financially even if one was unable to attend the tournament for Covid-19 reasons."

    If that is the actual agreement, firstly, they were all idiots to agree to that - show up or don't get paid.
    Secondly "unable to attend" - really -"unable"? They might reconsider that if they weren't getting the cash anyway. No wonder relations are so strained between them all.

    Hopefully it is bullshit as it makes no sense.



  • @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    I don't think Italy can be replaced, though, anyway.

    Tournament is owned by Six Nations Rugby Ltd. Tried to google ownership structure but to no vail.

    But if single 6 Nations team could veto promotion-relegation in 6 Nations (and by proxy veto proposed Nations League), then assume same applies for kicking them out of a tournament they partly own for a shiny new play thing. Would need to be bought out.

    So, expansion is only realistic option.

    If you're prepared to pay they're available https://search.cro.ie/company/ListSubDocs.aspx?id=358420&type=C





  • @KiwiMurph NICE



  • @Tim said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @KiwiMurph NICE

    In other news, NH rugby said they don't want the springboks in their comp



  • @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Tim said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @KiwiMurph NICE

    In other news, NH rugby said they don't want the springboks in their comp

    Don't care how they ended up staying, but they are



  • @Machpants said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @Tim said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    @KiwiMurph NICE

    In other news, NH rugby said they don't want the springboks in their comp

    Don't care how they ended up staying, but they are

    Yeah it is good for SH rugby.



  • That's great news for the future for NZ rugby.



  • @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    NH rugby said they don't want the springboks in their comp

    yeah that probably was a factor...oh well, think it is best result all round though!





  • In a Covid world, the financial drawing power of the NH is cruelly declining.



  • @cgrant said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

    In a Covid world, the financial drawing power of the NH is cruelly declining as they fucking deserve.

    FIFY.



  • This post is deleted!


  • It’s the best decision IMO. It retains robustness in the SH competitions and dies not further overcrowd the NH comps. Moreover and as far as the NH goes, is SA a financially sensible gamble? Maybe, but one I’d bet the house on, especially when you don’t need to.

    Good outcome I reckon.


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