Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?



  • We all know obesity is killing millions of people and in far greater numbers than Covid, yet the Govt response is drastically different.

    Do we really have control over our waistline or is big business nudging us to overeat without us even realising it.

    Should chocolate bars be at the checkouts of every store you enter, should Coke be cheaper than water. Should companies be able to use cute characters, toys, cartoons etc to lure kids into eating sugary foods. Should fresh fruit and veg be cheaper than what it is.

    Are there too many companies who benefit directly from obesity, drug companies, food industry, private healthcare etc etc

    Is there any consensus on what causes obesity, is it genes, is it purely diet, lack of exercise?

    I am overweight, I know the risks, yet I struggle to get my weight down. I am responsible for what goes in my mouth, yet I struggle to stop myself eating something I know leads to obesity. Clearly my brain is playing tricks on me as I wouldn't intentionally harm myself, yet long term that is exactly what I am doing.

    Should Govt take more responsibility in creating policies to tackle obesity or can we really reverse it by trying to educate people about their choices?

    Thoughts?



  • Personal responsibility.

    Every year citizens should be rounded up, waist measured and sent to fat camp.



  • @antipodean I accept we have the responsibility but when I think of smoking that is also a personal responsibility yet the Govt clearly takes a lot of action to prevent or stop smoking.



  • @chimoaus said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    We all know obesity is killing millions of people and in far greater numbers than Covid, yet the Govt response is drastically different.

    Do we really have control over our waistline or is big business nudging us to overeat without us even realising it.

    Should chocolate bars be at the checkouts of every store you enter, should Coke be cheaper than water. Should companies be able to use cute characters, toys, cartoons etc to lure kids into eating sugary foods. Should fresh fruit and veg be cheaper than what it is.

    Are there too many companies who benefit directly from obesity, drug companies, food industry, private healthcare etc etc

    Is there any consensus on what causes obesity, is it genes, is it purely diet, lack of exercise?

    I am overweight, I know the risks, yet I struggle to get my weight down. I am responsible for what goes in my mouth, yet I struggle to stop myself eating something I know leads to obesity. Clearly my brain is playing tricks on me as I wouldn't intentionally harm myself, yet long term that is exactly what I am doing.

    Should Govt take more responsibility in creating policies to tackle obesity or can we really reverse it by trying to educate people about their choices?

    Thoughts?

    Exercise more and eat less you fat fluffybunny. 🙂

    Seriously, it’s far less simple than that overall. Issuing food stamps for ferals on benefits rather than money would be a start so they don’t blow it all on codys and smokes and can afford to give the family something other than white bread for dinner would be a start.



  • Seriously there appears to be a real lack of understanding about calorie density in food these days. When wealthy people are generally thinner because they eat better, or have more time to prepare good quality food, more susceptible to peer pressure to put down the fork...

    It simply comes to abundance. We produce "food" on unimaginable scale these days and it's cheap, plentiful and designed to keep you hungry. Look at photos of people back in the 80s they were still thin.

    Now I look longingly at every food item I'd love to eat but deny myself knowing full well at my age I can't indulge anymore. Fuck knows how kids these days are obese. Don't parents care?



  • shitty food is cheaper, so people on limited incomes will always go for it over the healthy options.

    Fizzy drinks are cheap AF, especially the own brand full sugar shit...sure tap water is cheap, but depending where you are, it can taste terrible.

    I am in the remove GST from fruit/vege/bottled water/fresh meat camp.

    Even putting a 'sugar tax' on some of the cheap shit you can buy isnt going to stop people buying it either.

    Personal responsibility is a huge part, but education and having healthier options being a bit better priced woudl help too.



  • @antipodean said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    Seriously there appears to be a real lack of understanding about calorie density in food these days. When wealthy people are generally thinner because they eat better, or have more time to prepare good quality food, more susceptible to peer pressure to put down the fork...

    It simply comes to abundance. We produce "food" on unimaginable scale these days and it's cheap, plentiful and designed to keep you hungry. Look at photos of people back in the 80s they were still thin.

    Now I look longingly at every food item I'd love to eat but deny myself knowing full well at my age I can't indulge anymore. Fuck knows how kids these days are obese. Don't parents care?

    My boys eat pretty much identically overall but the youngest is prone to be a bit chunkier than his bro. Genetics do play a part for sure.....but there is a limit. Personal responsibility is the biggest part of it



  • @antipodean Agreed, however there are still plenty of obese wealthy people. Have you ever been on a cruise ship? Those are the definition of gluttony.

    Yep, obese children are very upsetting to see yet it is bloody common.



  • people aren't fucking vain enough, that's the problem

    look in the mirror, and keep it real. then do something about it.



  • @taniwharugby said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    Personal responsibility is a huge part, but education and having healthier options being a bit better priced woudl help too.

    Totally agree, when I was in the Cops we had a lot of overweight Police, on nightshift you would often get pizza, maccas etc as it was quick and cheap. We had a nutritionist come and talk to us paid for by the force.

    Whilst she was talking to us, I said have you seen all the vending machines in the station? Not a single healthy option in the place, full of chocolate, chips and crap. I made the suggestion that the Force needed to provide healthy options that were quick and always available so staff could go into the lunchroom and have a choice. Yes, we could prepare our own meals but during a 12 hour night shift you eat whatever is easiest. And when Maccas is open 24 hours and they give you 50% off everything, that was the default choice.



  • @mariner4life said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    people aren't fucking vain enough, that's the problem

    look in the mirror, and keep it real. then do something about it.

    12fc1584-78cf-45eb-8c14-82b2266edc3a-image.png



  • @chimoaus said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @taniwharugby said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    Personal responsibility is a huge part, but education and having healthier options being a bit better priced woudl help too.

    Totally agree, when I was in the Cops we had a lot of overweight Police, on nightshift you would often get pizza, maccas etc as it was quick and cheap. We had a nutritionist come and talk to us paid for by the force.

    Whilst she was talking to us, I said have you seen all the vending machines in the station? Not a single healthy option in the place, full of chocolate, chips and crap. I made the suggestion that the Force needed to provide healthy options that were quick and always available so staff could go into the lunchroom and have a choice. Yes, we could prepare our own meals but during a 12 hour night shift you eat whatever is easiest. And when Maccas is open 24 hours and they give you 50% off everything, that was the default choice.

    At least Police are doing physical things more often than not. When I joined communications they warned everyone that ‘comms arse’ was inevitable....and in most cases it was. Shift work, inactivity, bad sleep and binge eating shit food ( as I mentioned on another thread sausage rolls were a particular favourite ) are a terrible combo



  • As many of you know I live in Japan, and one of the key things here is the involvement of workplaces with the health of their workers.

    This comes from the old lifetime career system, which has many problems, but one good point is that it is in companies' interest to keep their workers healthy. We have a health check every year, and as you get older and become at greater risk of different things (e.g., prostate cancer) new tests get added to your health check (e.g., PSA test). As a result, most everyone makes some effort to stay in reasonable enough shape - it is set up so that if you have problems, you have more shit to do, such as extra doctor visits, more tests etc etc. It certainly wastes money but IMO has some uncounted externalities, such as ppl being much healthier much older. You often pass 95 year olds walking (or cycling!) to the shops.

    In my case, I had my health check last month (first week of October), and I actually went on a diet in August once I realised that I had put on 5 kgs during lockdown - much of that is me being a vain asshole, but it's also because I didn't want to have to explain to the doctor how it happened and have extra tests (3 kgs is the number at which they start to give you a hard time).

    I got my results yesterday, and apart from a few issues with one compound in my liver (surprise surprise), my BMI is 23.2, I weighed in at 82.4 kgs (1 kg more than last year), and 188.5 cms and still got a warning for metabolical syndrome as my waist is 85.7cms (after 84.9 cms you get a warning). I'm pretty fucking skinny by NZ standards and I got a 'C' (A is the highest grade you can get).

    Three years ago, that check-up identified the cancer that ending up killing my workmate, two years ago it identified the ongoing health issue with a colleague who is now fine.

    This post got a lot longer than I planned, but I think that we put too much on individuals and their choices without putting people in situations where they are faced to front up to those choices at spaced intervals which highlight how much shit they might be in. In my case, although I now weigh 82 kgs, my trip from being 96 kgs and in trouble to 78.9 (at my lowest before I got sick in 2014) was going to my health check at work in 2009 and the doctor telling me, quite simply, that I was fat. I decided to stick it to that old fluffybunny by coming back next year skinnier, which I did. However, when I went in the next year at 84kgs he sent for extra tests because he thought I sick so I guess he still got the last laugh 😂



  • @gt12 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    As many of you know I live in Japan, and one of the key things here is the involvement of workplaces with the health of their workers.

    This comes from the old lifetime career system, which has many problems, but one good point is that it is in companies' interest to keep their workers healthy. We have a health check every year, and as you get older and become at greater risk of different things (e.g., prostate cancer) new tests get added to your health check (e.g., PSA test). As a result, most everyone makes some effort to stay in reasonable enough shape - it is set up so that if you have problems, you have more shit to do, such as extra doctor visits, more tests etc etc. It certainly wastes money but IMO has some uncounted externalities, such as ppl being much healthier much older. You often pass 95 year olds walking (or cycling!) to the shops.

    In my case, I had my health check last month (first week of October), and I actually went on a diet in August once I realised that I had put on 5 kgs during lockdown - much of that is me being a vain asshole, but it's also because I didn't want to have to explain to the doctor how it happened and have extra tests (3 kgs is the number at which they start to give you a hard time).

    I got my results yesterday, and apart from a few issues with one compound in my liver (surprise surprise), my BMI is 23.2, I weighed in at 82.4 kgs (1 kg more than last year), and 188.5 cms and still got a warning for metabolical syndrome as my waist is 85.7cms (after 84.9 cms you get a warning). I'm pretty fucking skinny by NZ standards and I got a 'C' (A is the highest grade you can get).

    Three years ago, that check-up identified the cancer that ending up killing my workmate, two years ago it identified the ongoing health issue with a colleague who is now fine.

    This post got a lot longer than I planned, but I think that we put too much on individuals and their choices without putting people in situations where they are faced to front up to those choices at spaced intervals which highlight how much shit they might be in. In my case, although I now weigh 82 kgs, my trip from being 96 kgs and in trouble to 78.9 (at my lowest before I got sick in 2014) was going to my health check at work in 2009 and the doctor telling me, quite simply, that I was fat. I decided to stick it to that old fluffybunny by coming back next year skinnier, which I did. However, when I went in the next year at 84kgs he sent for extra tests because he thought I sick so I guess he still got the last laugh 😂

    Surely you jest. I’m a tiny bit taller but I linger in and around the ton !! I’d get sent to fat camp right away.



  • @MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    Surely you jest. I’m a tiny bit taller but I linger in and around the ton !! I’d get sent to fat camp right away.

    @MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    Exercise more and eat less you fat fluffybunny. 🙂



  • @gt12 Great post and an interesting insight into how a different culture approaches health. I am surprised so many Asians smoke though, is that not part of the health checks?

    I think being accountable and having immediate consequences helps. The fittest I have been in my adult life was before joining the Cops, I worked bloody hard to be as fit as I could be to pass the tests etc. But once I was in, I never once had to do another fitness test to stay operational. I had to pass proficiency testing with firearms, high risk incidents etc etc but they never tested my health or fitness.

    I understand some Police jurisdictions do test fitness and will not allow you to be operational unless you meet certain standards. If I had to pass a fitness test every year to stay operational and full pay, then I no doubt would have looked after myself better. I guess incentives can work in some scenarios.



  • @mariner4life you know what though, somehow my kids, despite seeing thier mum always watching what she eats, going to the gym and thier dad doing plenty of exercise to keep in shape, that for them to lose a few kgs or get fit they just need to take a pill or protein shakes.

    Miss 12 has struggled the past few years after being tiny most of her life, but is now becoming quite self conscious.

    TR Jnr was always a bit on the chubby side, didnt matter what he did, but last year as he has started to grow, he has lost alot of the flab, and is realising if he wants that body he sees in the movies, he has to fucking work for it...although still struggles to motivate himself to do much

    I guess that comes from TV & Social Media, which obviously doesnt help.



  • So would anyone here legitimately be healthy in Japan ?

    I’d seriously have my doubts



  • tax the fuck out of chips, biscuits, lollies and coke. nobody needs to buy a lot of those, and it worked for ciggies. use that money to improve the public health system, or use it to offset not having GST on fruit and veg. win win.
    that shit is always the first thing 'on special' at the supermarket, and you always see the fattest shoppers with trolleys full of them. it's fucking sad.



  • @MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    So would anyone here legitimately be healthy in Japan ?

    I’d seriously have my doubts

    yes, fatty.



  • @reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    So would anyone here legitimately be healthy in Japan ?

    I’d seriously have my doubts

    yes, fatty.

    I need a belt to wear size 34 jeans. The system is flawed



  • Funny this thread appears today. I have an appointment with a dietician tomorrow.

    I'm not a fatty these days but was back pre-2014 when I shed over 20kg and I've mostly been able to keep that off since.

    But, I was getting a bunch of migraines through most of this year (1 or 2 a week at one stage) and studies have found that high cholesterol in older women 😉 is a possible factor in triggering them.

    So I had a cholesterol test and it was crazy bad, worse than any pre-2014 one when I was a fatty eating lots of carbs and sweets. So they want to put me on meds, but first I have to have a dieticians appointment. Not sure what I'll get out of it.



  • @MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    So would anyone here legitimately be healthy in Japan ?

    I’d seriously have my doubts

    yes, fatty.

    I need a belt to wear size 34 jeans. The system is flawed

    yeah, all the systems are flawed. e.g. BMI for people who lift weights doesn't really work, but you definitely need some sort of a measure, and as per gt12, to do it regularly to monitor change and catch it before it goes too far.



  • @Nepia said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    I was getting a bunch of migraines through most of this year and studies have found that high cholesterol in older women

    knew it!



  • In my adult life I've been as low as 91kgs (wedding shape, had 4 abs even) and as high as 106kgs. Currently floating about 100kgs after being as low as 94kgs 7 months ago when I left Bali.

    For me, the fluctuations are all about wine. Food to some degree, but mostly the wine. I've always enjoyed exercise and do it whether I'm skinny or fat, its just heaps easier without the extra kgs.

    I dont know if taxes on sugar and fats are right. More education certainly. But there is something about specific taxes that takes away from personal choices that I dont like. Its not like smoking where there is a knock-on effect on others, or alcohol and its effect on DV etc. Yeah, there is an impact on the health system for those that get obesity- related diseases I guess. Not sure that justifies it.

    To tie this back to the Grump Old Man thread, maybe the answer is to make the wearing of lycra onesies compulsory, all day, every day. Nothing like a bit of self-consciousness to get you motivated....



  • @voodoo it is a massive, massive burden on the public health system - the biggest contributing factor to our biggest diseases.
    I see it not as taking away the choice, just making people pay for the actual cost of that choice.
    These are luxury items that nobody really needs, and certainly nobody needs to buy a lot of, and even with tax at 50% they wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. What about taking away the choice of buying fresh fruit and veg because it's more expensive than this crap?

    As for the lycra onesie, that is punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Which is pretty similar to not taxing it and the effect on the public health system now that I think about it.



  • @voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    In my adult life I've been as low as 91kgs (wedding shape, had 4 abs even) and as high as 106kgs. Currently floating about 100kgs after being as low as 94kgs 7 months ago when I left Bali.

    For me, the fluctuations are all about wine. Food to some degree, but mostly the wine. I've always enjoyed exercise and do it whether I'm skinny or fat, its just heaps easier without the extra kgs.

    I dont know if taxes on sugar and fats are right. More education certainly. But there is something about specific taxes that takes away from personal choices that I dont like. Its not like smoking where there is a knock-on effect on others, or alcohol and its effect on DV etc. Yeah, there is an impact on the health system for those that get obesity- related diseases I guess. Not sure that justifies it.
    >
    To tie this back to the Grump Old Man thread, maybe the answer is to make the wearing of lycra onesies compulsory, all day, every day. Nothing like a bit of self-consciousness to get you motivated.
    ...

    But you look so hot compared to the rest of us



  • @MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    In my adult life I've been as low as 91kgs (wedding shape, had 4 abs even) and as high as 106kgs. Currently floating about 100kgs after being as low as 94kgs 7 months ago when I left Bali.

    For me, the fluctuations are all about wine. Food to some degree, but mostly the wine. I've always enjoyed exercise and do it whether I'm skinny or fat, its just heaps easier without the extra kgs.

    I dont know if taxes on sugar and fats are right. More education certainly. But there is something about specific taxes that takes away from personal choices that I dont like. Its not like smoking where there is a knock-on effect on others, or alcohol and its effect on DV etc. Yeah, there is an impact on the health system for those that get obesity- related diseases I guess. Not sure that justifies it.
    >
    To tie this back to the Grump Old Man thread, maybe the answer is to make the wearing of lycra onesies compulsory, all day, every day. Nothing like a bit of self-consciousness to get you motivated.
    ...

    But you look so hot compared to the rest of us

    True



  • @voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    Its not like smoking where there is a knock-on effect on others, or alcohol and its effect on DV etc.

    I think there are knock on effects, the children.

    They see the shitty eating habits of a parent, whats to make them change, bar some kind of health scare?

    It's the same with alot of things, a viscious circle.

    As an adult my weight has largely been mid to high 90's (when I got the Heathrow Injection, I did get upto 105kg and when I was stressing about selling our house 8 years ago, I dropped to 88kg) but when I am on the heavier end of 90s it is shitty food and beer (especially home brew) but when I am mid 90's I do more exercise and eat better.



  • @reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @voodoo it is a massive, massive burden on the public health system - the biggest contributing factor to our biggest diseases.
    I see it not as taking away the choice, just making people pay for the actual cost of that choice.
    These are luxury items that nobody really needs, and certainly nobody needs to buy a lot of, and even with tax at 50% they wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. What about taking away the choice of buying fresh fruit and veg because it's more expensive than this crap?

    As for the lycra onesie, that is punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Which is pretty similar to not taxing it and the effect on the public health system now that I think about it.

    I hear you. And I'm ok with subsidising fruit and veg.

    I guess the only difference between this and smoking, is that only smokers buy smokes. Lots of non-obese folk (couldn't think of a way to use non zero there) buy sugary stuff . They shouldn't be punished?



  • @MN5 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @gt12 said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    As many of you know I live in Japan, and one of the key things here is the involvement of workplaces with the health of their workers.

    This comes from the old lifetime career system, which has many problems, but one good point is that it is in companies' interest to keep their workers healthy. We have a health check every year, and as you get older and become at greater risk of different things (e.g., prostate cancer) new tests get added to your health check (e.g., PSA test). As a result, most everyone makes some effort to stay in reasonable enough shape - it is set up so that if you have problems, you have more shit to do, such as extra doctor visits, more tests etc etc. It certainly wastes money but IMO has some uncounted externalities, such as ppl being much healthier much older. You often pass 95 year olds walking (or cycling!) to the shops.

    In my case, I had my health check last month (first week of October), and I actually went on a diet in August once I realised that I had put on 5 kgs during lockdown - much of that is me being a vain asshole, but it's also because I didn't want to have to explain to the doctor how it happened and have extra tests (3 kgs is the number at which they start to give you a hard time).

    I got my results yesterday, and apart from a few issues with one compound in my liver (surprise surprise), my BMI is 23.2, I weighed in at 82.4 kgs (1 kg more than last year), and 188.5 cms and still got a warning for metabolical syndrome as my waist is 85.7cms (after 84.9 cms you get a warning). I'm pretty fucking skinny by NZ standards and I got a 'C' (A is the highest grade you can get).

    Three years ago, that check-up identified the cancer that ending up killing my workmate, two years ago it identified the ongoing health issue with a colleague who is now fine.

    This post got a lot longer than I planned, but I think that we put too much on individuals and their choices without putting people in situations where they are faced to front up to those choices at spaced intervals which highlight how much shit they might be in. In my case, although I now weigh 82 kgs, my trip from being 96 kgs and in trouble to 78.9 (at my lowest before I got sick in 2014) was going to my health check at work in 2009 and the doctor telling me, quite simply, that I was fat. I decided to stick it to that old fluffybunny by coming back next year skinnier, which I did. However, when I went in the next year at 84kgs he sent for extra tests because he thought I sick so I guess he still got the last laugh 😂

    Surely you jest. I’m a tiny bit taller but I linger in and around the ton !! I’d get sent to fat camp right away.

    The BMI is a shit statistic, for sure. If you lift, you'll be explaining it to the doctor, but since you have to show a bit of skin getting your waist measured anyway, if you are clearly cut, they'll cut you some slack. I actually just got a message from them telling me that despite my tests with red ink (liver, waist), I don't need any extra doctor visits etc as they are happy with my health 🙂

    That's typical, because I've set myself the goal to be under 84.9 and I think I might be OK now - I've continued with the diet and I hit 81.4 today, so miiiiight be at 84.9 around the waist. I might need to get in the 80s and reduce a bit more waist fat, but I've got a goal now...

    Fitness and weight is a funny things anyway. I topped out at 103 kgs at university and I could still two-handed dunk it at B-ball. Now, I think I'd be lucky to touch the rim.



  • @voodoo think is with a chocolate bar, lets say it costs $0.50c add GST and you are at $0.575c, and is sold for $1, add 50% tax on it and it is $0.75c cost, they can still sell at $1.50 and I bet sales wouldnt drop much at that cost, but make more and still sell plenty cos they are at the check out.

    @gt12 I had a body scan thingee last week, my BMI is 32.2...



  • @voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @voodoo it is a massive, massive burden on the public health system - the biggest contributing factor to our biggest diseases.
    I see it not as taking away the choice, just making people pay for the actual cost of that choice.
    These are luxury items that nobody really needs, and certainly nobody needs to buy a lot of, and even with tax at 50% they wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. What about taking away the choice of buying fresh fruit and veg because it's more expensive than this crap?

    As for the lycra onesie, that is punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Which is pretty similar to not taxing it and the effect on the public health system now that I think about it.

    I hear you. And I'm ok with subsidising fruit and veg.

    I guess the only difference between this and smoking, is that only smokers buy smokes. Lots of non-obese folk (couldn't think of a way to use non zero there) buy sugary stuff . They shouldn't be punished?

    Yep, agreed in theory. But in practice their punishment is minor, cause they're only buying occasionally. And they get the benefit of that improved public health system / less tax required to run it / cheaper fruit n veg / whatever else.
    I buy crap occasionally, and I would happily suck up a big price increase there for cheaper actual food. It just encourages people to make better decisions more often, and when they don't, the rest of the population is not subsidising their bad decisions.



  • I think there are a few factors. It's not like other generations didn't also eat and drink crap. Fish or savs in batter, potato scallops and chips aren't exactly healthy. Always been lots of chocolate and lollies around as well. Not to mention juice and cordial.

    I'm skeptical of taxes making any difference, but it would be nice if actual healthy food was made cheaper. But then again there seems to be a fundamental lack of knowledge among most of the population about what healthy eating actually entails.

    A sedentary lifestyle is also massive contributing factor. Particularly for obesity among kids.

    Ultimately it's a pretty simple formula. Exercise more and don't eat shit. But some foods are very addictive and proper exercise can be really hard for some.

    I've always thought a type of rewards scheme for people who do maintain a good level of health might be an idea. No idea how to enforce that though.



  • @voodoo said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @reprobate said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @voodoo it is a massive, massive burden on the public health system - the biggest contributing factor to our biggest diseases.
    I see it not as taking away the choice, just making people pay for the actual cost of that choice.
    These are luxury items that nobody really needs, and certainly nobody needs to buy a lot of, and even with tax at 50% they wouldn't be prohibitively expensive. What about taking away the choice of buying fresh fruit and veg because it's more expensive than this crap?

    As for the lycra onesie, that is punishing those who have done nothing wrong. Which is pretty similar to not taxing it and the effect on the public health system now that I think about it.

    I hear you. And I'm ok with subsidising fruit and veg.

    I guess the only difference between this and smoking, is that only smokers buy smokes. Lots of non-obese folk (couldn't think of a way to use non zero there) buy sugary stuff . They shouldn't be punished?

    That's my issue too. I shouldn't have to pay stupid money for the occasional treat just because others have zero discipline. And as I said, I'm not sure it would make any difference. Plenty of fat båstards eating food made with "healthy ingredients" as well.



  • A subject very close to my heart due to a close family member having obesity issues, and my own personal "battles" with the fat.

    It's very simple. You can't make anybody do something they don't want to do. If the person with issues doesn't want to do lose weight, it won't happen. And there are very different levels of the word want. I spent most of my 30's doing some sort of work outs here and there, jogging a fair bit with a couple of half marathons and essentially being really half arsed about it. I made internal deals with myself, that if I went for a run ,then it was open season diet-wise the rest of the day etc. Drank far too much, ate out at restaurants all the time, and really enjoyed myself.

    And I don't regret a thing. Not a single thing. I was happy. I knew I was overweight, but I had a lot of things going well, so wasn't overly bothered.

    Then one day in the mirror, it all changed. I was no longer happy because of what I was seeing. The fat guy looking back at me made me unhappy. So I signed up to a program (kenzai) that very day, and did something about it. I went from 96.5 kg (I'm 177cm short) down to around 87kg in 3 months. That's still overweight according to most measures, but I felt great, had loads of compliments so wasn't really bothered. I then re-took up running and really loved it. Like proper loved it. So that's my thing. I hovered up to 90kg over the next 2 years due to not enough running and a heathrow injection ... but then once started working / commuting again, ballooned up 95kg. Once again, was unhappy, so changed my life, and dropped to 90kg again by training for a half and changing diet.

    That worked for a bit, but I'm a real yoyo these days .. and ended up at 94 kg again .. right when I got into the London Marathon. That was last August, and between then and April this year, I dropped down to 85kg with all the training. I think I was the only person to lose weight through lockdown 1! The problem was/is, that losing that amount of weight that fast, with all the training ... means it comes back on. I ran the second marathon 90.5kg (and was an hour slower) and sit here right now having just weighed in at 91.5kg.

    However, this time, I'm not happy at this weight. I'm looking in the mirror at 91.5kg and not happy, as opposed to 94-96kg previous times. So I'm in the diet again, and on the exercise aggressively. It is more difficult without the natural exercise from commuting, but I have to make the effort - & as I'm at home, I do have the time. I remember on the marathon weight drop, when I weighed in at 89.8kg, I made a pact with myself then to never see above 90 on the scales again. I've blown that, and of course, have made all the excuses under the sun to my self (lockdown, no holidays etc etc). But I'm on the drop again now, so we'll see.

    Bit of a diatribe sorry, but the point was and still remains. You can't make somebody lose weight who doesn't want to. And not only that, the level of want is just as important.

    I'll share the story of my family member at some point too - its very different to mine, but just as full of learnings as my own journey ((c) Mitchell, John). She's now finally on the better path, but it's been a 25 year journey of mental breakdowns, operations and sleepless nights for those of us close to her.



  • @MajorRage Thanks for sharing, I suspect just about everyone has a similar story to yours. I go between 85-95 with 100 being my peak. I recently had to go to the doctor and got on the scales and it was 95, I felt like shit and I know exactly how I got there. Not enough exercise and too much food. I have been having some back and shoulder issues and I know it is because of the extra weight and lack of strength. But I continue to put up with the pain and promise myself I will do better.

    It really is a bizarre mind fuck the way we treat the very thing that keeps us alive. It would be funny if your body had a voice, I bet I would get into a lot of heated arguments about why I should be able to eat cake 😉



  • Oh, and I'm 100% pro taxes to sugar, salt laden, processed food, and tax free fresh vegetables, fruit, meat etc.

    It won't change peoples habits (in my view), but it will generate cash to help pay for the additional health resources.



  • @antipodean said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    It simply comes to abundance. We produce "food" on unimaginable scale these days and it's cheap, plentiful and designed to keep you hungry. Look at photos of people back in the 80s they were still thin.

    That's the thing - people are vastly bigger.

    I've been browsing through an old book of the 1971 Lions tour and in the back it has all the players statistics. Their first choice backline was:

    Gareth Edwards 79kg
    Barry John 75kg
    Mike Gibson 78kg
    John Dawes 82kg
    Gerald Davies 73kg
    David Duckham 89 kg
    JPR Williams 86kg

    Mighty Mouse McLauchlan ended up propping in the tests at slightly less than 92kg!

    I was too small in my youth to be a decent rugby player - but, now I'm big enough to have been a test midfielder in a test series I can remember!



  • @chimoaus said in Fighting Obesity - Thoughts?:

    @gt12 Great post and an interesting insight into how a different culture approaches health. I am surprised so many Asians smoke though, is that not part of the health checks?.

    It is - you get a hard time for it, and for booze, but as long as your other stuff is going OK, you seem to get by. However, even the smoking percentage is falling pretty rapidly now compared to when I first came here (in 1999).

    Japan is pretty high in some types of cancers too, but generally speaking, if you live here you'll be in good shape. Fat fluffybunnies really stick out.


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